Jump to content


Poor pen, poor accuracy, worth it?


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

cantgobacknow #1 Posted Nov 07 2019 - 15:12

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 13349 battles
  • 679
  • [IKU2] IKU2
  • Member since:
    05-04-2012

Before you continue, please understand:

  • I would much rather play tanks I find aesthetically pleasing than those that are currently considered overpowered (OP)
  • I understand that how "fun" a tank to play is important in what tanks we should likely play
  • I realize a unicum could average better in ANY tank than I could in my favorite
  • I've never played a tank for the reason that it was considered OP

 

I'm new back to World of Tanks. I've played on and off for about 9 years. I've recently seen the UDES 15/16, and I love its appearance. It has a low(ish) pen and poor(ish) aim. At least it's not great at either.

 

If a tank's pen is low, and the accuracy isn't great (making weak points harder to hit), what purpose does the tank serve?

 

And though my interest currently is in the UDES 15/16, I also mean the question more generally.

 

For example, if a unicum played in the UDES 15/16, and compared games in that to any other medium of his choice, how would they compare? And if the UDES gets the short end, could that suggest that it's not a great tank to use?

 

...don't get me wrong, I'll play tanks I enjoy playing even if they're not the currently OP tank. I've no interest in playing OP tanks for the sake that they are OP.

 

 


Edited by cantgobacknow, Nov 07 2019 - 15:26.


Atragon #2 Posted Nov 07 2019 - 15:18

    Major

  • Players
  • 44098 battles
  • 4,974
  • [FINES] FINES
  • Member since:
    04-22-2012

I think thats one of Skills favorite tanks: It may be featured here.

 

 

 



Panzerkind #3 Posted Nov 07 2019 - 15:52

    Major

  • Players
  • 37349 battles
  • 2,263
  • [YOUJO] YOUJO
  • Member since:
    01-16-2012

You should keep in mind that unicums who are into playing this tank are probably shooting mostly gold out of it, like the 430U. The 430U's gun is honestly pretty trash without the 340mm pen HEAT, and I for one definitely shoot mostly HEAT in mine especially in 15v15 tier 10 games, but honestly I don't really like the 430U in general so I barely play it in pubs. I don't have a UDES but I figure the situation with the gun is similar. 

 

 



Redcoat #4 Posted Nov 07 2019 - 15:57

    Captain

  • Players
  • 67676 battles
  • 1,138
  • Member since:
    03-24-2011
I don't know what the paper stats say, but I find this tank a joy to play, and the gun handling always seemed quite good to me... I distinctly remember sniping the cupola on Obj.279e at 150 metres without a problem one battle so it can't be bad (I remember it because the 279 driver kept bouncing shots off my flattened turret incline between my shots on him, and he got so po'd he ended up rushing me and I killed him with two side shots)... anyway, I liked playing the T9 so much the grind to T10 went by before I'd noticed, and the T10 is even better...

cantgobacknow #5 Posted Nov 07 2019 - 16:54

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 13349 battles
  • 679
  • [IKU2] IKU2
  • Member since:
    05-04-2012

View PostPanzerkind, on Nov 07 2019 - 09:52, said:

You should keep in mind that unicums who are into playing this tank are probably shooting mostly gold out of it, like the 430U. The 430U's gun is honestly pretty trash without the 340mm pen HEAT, and I for one definitely shoot mostly HEAT in mine especially in 15v15 tier 10 games, but honestly I don't really like the 430U in general so I barely play it in pubs. I don't have a UDES but I figure the situation with the gun is similar. 

 

 

 

True, and I bet that would not be cheap for me. I'd likely loose tens of thousands of credits every match.


Edited by cantgobacknow, Nov 07 2019 - 17:00.


DomoSapien #6 Posted Nov 07 2019 - 17:40

    Community Coordinator

  • Administrator
  • 14965 battles
  • 1,194
  • [WGA] WGA
  • Member since:
    12-28-2012

So when the Swediums came out I rushed to the tier VIII and grinded up the rest of the line. They're actually quite fun to play, from my experience, although there are a few pretty glaring weaknesses that prevent them from being meta.

The biggest weakness, moreso than the pen and accuracy imo, is how susceptible these things are to HE. You will fairly consistently be getting hit by artillery for 1k+ damage with a single shot. I think the most I've seen was a little over 1300 from an M53/M55.

 

For the 15/16: The accuracy is, imo, workable, and the pen is also, imo, workable. I don't always spam gold because I generally prefer APCR when I can use it because shell velocity - but you have fairly beefy alpha for a medium which is a nice enough deterrent to stop people from pushing you on a ridgeline. The tank generally teaches you good gameplay habits and allows you to get into a lot of crazy positions/angles.

In my opinion, it's a really fun line to play once you hit tier 8+.

 

You're going to have some excellent games and you're going to have some miserable games. If you want something that's a more consistent and classically skill-based I'd go for something else meta like the SConq, 277, or 430U. What I mean by that is, how you do in those vehicles is more directly related to your individual performance than how you do in the UDES, because things that are mostly out of your control like Arty will impact your gameplay in the UDES much more than in a more "meta" tank.


Edited by DomoSapien, Nov 07 2019 - 17:42.


Lovegoat996 #7 Posted Nov 07 2019 - 19:02

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 46704 battles
  • 139
  • [-G-] -G-
  • Member since:
    06-10-2012
It's pretty fun tank to play. Pen sometimes is an issue but mainly if you want to fight superheavies head on. I enjoy mine and even have improved on it.

Edited by Lovegoat996, Nov 07 2019 - 19:03.


InfinityGamer #8 Posted Nov 08 2019 - 16:22

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 34956 battles
  • 260
  • [GIVUP] GIVUP
  • Member since:
    03-29-2013
Yes, the pen isn't great and neither is the accuracy, but what it lacks in these areas it more than makes up for in gun depression and armour. The tank basically has one job and one job only, abuse the sh** out of ridgelines. With its pneumatic suspension engaged I think it gets something like 16 degrees of gun depression. Combine that with the fact that the angle of the turret can auto-bounce anything that hits it and what you get is a master of hills, similar to the Swedish heavies.

AllieOop2 #9 Posted Nov 08 2019 - 21:25

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 12 battles
  • 608
  • Member since:
    02-22-2019

View PostInfinityGamer, on Nov 08 2019 - 16:22, said:

Yes, the pen isn't great and neither is the accuracy, but what it lacks in these areas it more than makes up for in gun depression and armour. The tank basically has one job and one job only, abuse the sh** out of ridgelines. With its pneumatic suspension engaged I think it gets something like 16 degrees of gun depression. Combine that with the fact that the angle of the turret can auto-bounce anything that hits it and what you get is a master of hills, similar to the Swedish heavies.


Very good post points to the strengths not weakness of a tank. Do this an its a real fun tank. Try to play it like a typical medium and its not so much fun.



cantgobacknow #10 Posted Nov 09 2019 - 01:43

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 13349 battles
  • 679
  • [IKU2] IKU2
  • Member since:
    05-04-2012

View PostInfinityGamer, on Nov 08 2019 - 10:22, said:

Yes, the pen isn't great and neither is the accuracy, but what it lacks in these areas it more than makes up for in gun depression and armour. The tank basically has one job and one job only, abuse the sh** out of ridgelines. With its pneumatic suspension engaged I think it gets something like 16 degrees of gun depression. Combine that with the fact that the angle of the turret can auto-bounce anything that hits it and what you get is a master of hills, similar to the Swedish heavies.

 

13 degrees depression.

 

What good is depression if you can't pen though :)



death_stryker #11 Posted Nov 09 2019 - 02:50

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 4575 battles
  • 827
  • [LUCID] LUCID
  • Member since:
    05-23-2014

View Postcantgobacknow, on Nov 08 2019 - 17:43, said:

13 degrees depression.

 

What good is depression if you can't pen though :)

How about not being so snarky and instead spending some time thinking about what they said. Their point is that you can use its gun depression to get really good ridgeline angles on your opponent, such that you are practically invincible (except from arty ofc, as people have mentioned). What good is being practically invincible, you say? Well, I dunno.

 

Also, the 15/16's gun is nowhere near as bad as you seem to think it to be. It has great gun handling, which pretty much mitigates the bad accuracy and aim time, and having slightly less pen than average rarely matters if you are playing the tank correctly anyway (i.e. not fighting superheavies with standard ammo). Dealing damage should never be an issue with what is basically a Swedish M48.



InfinityGamer #12 Posted Nov 09 2019 - 02:54

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 34956 battles
  • 260
  • [GIVUP] GIVUP
  • Member since:
    03-29-2013

View Postcantgobacknow, on Nov 09 2019 - 10:43, said:

13 degrees depression.

What good is depression if you can't pen though :)

When you're poking on enemies less that 50m away it should be easy to aim for weak spots. You're basically invincible on a ridgeline so you get all the time in the world to aim. Also, as death_stryker mentioned, the gun really isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. The Obj. 140 has the same accuracy and similar pen yet I don't hear anyone claiming that tank has a bad gun.


Edited by InfinityGamer, Nov 09 2019 - 03:05.


Casual_Boops #13 Posted Nov 09 2019 - 05:42

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 35663 battles
  • 1,573
  • [CLAWS] CLAWS
  • Member since:
    05-14-2015
I find the Swedish meds (tier 9 and 10) to be very good tanks with very serviceable guns. I don't notice the pen or accuracy issues so much because when playing the tank correctly you usually have enough time to aim your shots well... And the alpha and mobility are above average for meds. Overall they're great, IMO except I didn't really enjoy the 8 because the turret is cheese.

uberdice #14 Posted Nov 09 2019 - 15:30

    Major

  • Players
  • 27267 battles
  • 9,934
  • Member since:
    01-14-2012

View Postcantgobacknow, on Nov 09 2019 - 10:43, said:

 

13 degrees depression.

 

What good is depression if you can't pen though :)

 

Imagine not being able to find something to pen with 254 APCR/310 HEAT.



cantgobacknow #15 Posted Nov 09 2019 - 16:04

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 13349 battles
  • 679
  • [IKU2] IKU2
  • Member since:
    05-04-2012

View Postuberdice, on Nov 09 2019 - 09:30, said:

 

Imagine not being able to find something to pen with 254 APCR/310 HEAT.

 

I can't afford to run HEAT. Can't really afford to run tier X with standard ammunition. :)



uberdice #16 Posted Nov 12 2019 - 10:01

    Major

  • Players
  • 27267 battles
  • 9,934
  • Member since:
    01-14-2012

View Postcantgobacknow, on Nov 10 2019 - 01:04, said:

I can't afford to run HEAT. Can't really afford to run tier X with standard ammunition. :)

 

If you can't afford to run tier 10 with standard ammo, then the whole discussion becomes moot, doesn't it?



cantgobacknow #17 Posted Nov 12 2019 - 13:51

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 13349 battles
  • 679
  • [IKU2] IKU2
  • Member since:
    05-04-2012

View Postuberdice, on Nov 12 2019 - 04:01, said:

 

If you can't afford to run tier 10 with standard ammo, then the whole discussion becomes moot, doesn't it?

 

Obviously I can afford a few matches else I'd not have asked the question.

 

Some would have inferred that I can't afford to run tier X without supplementing it with income from lower tier matches.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users