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Simultaneous Crew Position Training

Crew Crew Training Crew XP Crew Skill Waste of Time Training Takes Too Long Faster Training

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Poll: Streamline Crew Training (2 members have cast votes)

Should multiple crew skills be learnt simultaneously as explained?

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WhiteFire #1 Posted Nov 22 2019 - 00:16

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Good day Tankers!

 

I propose a change to the way crew skills are trained in order to make our lives easier.

 

Before we begin I'd like to define some terms:

Skill(s) --- Skills & Perks of crew members.

Generic / Generic Skill(s) --- Repairs, Camo, Firefighting, and BIA.
Role / Role Skill(s) / Category --- Refers to the qualification of specific crew members and the respective skills they can learn; Commander, Driver, Gunner, Radio Operator, and Loader, and their respective skills.

XP --- Crew XP.

 

For multirole crew members, i.e. [Commander + Loader], [Gunner + Loader], [Commander + Radio Operator], etc., allow training a number of skills equal to the number of roles (Commander, Driver, Gunner, etc.).

Example:

A crew member who is both Cmdr and Loader can train two skills at the same time.

A crew member who is Cmdr, Gunner, Loader, and Radio Operator (on the AMX ELC) can train four skills at the same time.

A crew member who is only a Cmdr can train only one skill at a time, as is the case for all crew members in the live server.

 

--- If a crew member is Cmdr and Loader, then they should be able to train one Cmdr skill (i.e. Sixth Sense) and one Loader skill (i.e. Adrenaline Rush) at the same time.

--- Also, note that instead of two role skills, the crew member also has the option of training one generic skill and one role skill. However, they cannot take two skills of the same category.

Example:

A crew member can train Sixth Sense (role) and Adrenaline Rush (different role) at the same time.

A crew member can train BIA (generic) and Sixth Sense (role) at the same time.

A crew member CANNOT train Sixth Sense and Recon at the same time (both are Cmdr skills).


--- The amount of XP earned for all skills in training are equal, and not split.

Example:

Assume a crew member trains for both Sixth Sense and Adrenaline Rush at the same time (as first skills).

A battle is played in which 1,000 Crew XP is earned.

Both Sixth Sense and Adrenaline Rush are now at 1,000 / 210,000 XP.

 

--- The XP cost to train a skill is equal to the number of generic skills + number of specific role skills.

Example:

Crew member is Cmdr + Loader and has the following skills: Repairs, BIA, Sixth Sense (Cmdr), Recon (Cmdr), and Adrenaline Rush (Loader) (5 Total; 2 Generic, 2 Cmdr, 1 Loader).

If the next skill to be learnt is Generic (Camo or Firefighting), the amount of XP required is equal to whatever it is now for a 5th skill.

If the next skill to be learnt is Cmdr (Mentor, Jack of All Trades, Eagle Eye), the amount of XP required is equal to that of a 5th skill.

If the next skill to be learnt is Loader (Intuition, Safe Stowage), the amount of XP required is equal to that of a 4th skill.

 

This will cut down on the time requirements for crew training on tanks with fewer crew members (3 crew in UDES 15/16 vs 6 in Maus) and equalize crew training across the board.

 

TL;DR You can now train more than one skill at a time on a crew member who has more than one role.

 

--- WhiteFire

 

Edit: Corrected XP Value


Edited by WhiteFire, Nov 23 2019 - 01:21.


GeorgePreddy #2 Posted Nov 22 2019 - 00:40

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It has never been easier than it is now to train crews, PRs, Crew Books of many types, zeroth skill BIA crews of several kinds, etc.

 

So... no... this is not needed.

 

 

 

 

 

 



Insanefriend #3 Posted Nov 22 2019 - 01:26

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View PostGeorgePreddy, on Nov 21 2019 - 17:40, said:

It has never been easier than it is now to train crews, PRs, Crew Books of many types, zeroth skill BIA crews of several kinds, etc.

 

So... no... this is not needed.

 

With the shear amount of skills some commanders are forced to take under the current system it would make sense.  Look at the Manticore, two crew members, so not only is the tank under powered for combat, it is under powered for crew.  Since crew xp currently goes up at a exponential rate that smaller crews are punished hard.  So tanks that have four crew members can get xp for skills at a much faster rate.


Edited by Insanefriend, Nov 22 2019 - 01:26.


Buttknuckle #4 Posted Nov 22 2019 - 01:34

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View PostInsanefriend, on Nov 22 2019 - 00:26, said:

 

With the shear amount of skills some commanders are forced to take under the current system it would make sense.  Look at the Manticore, two crew members, so not only is the tank under powered for combat, it is under powered for crew.  Since crew xp currently goes up at a exponential rate that smaller crews are punished hard.  So tanks that have four crew members can get xp for skills at a much faster rate.

True, but this proposed system could be abused.

Slap crew in manticore. Drop crew book on them and get two skills for price of one. Then move to another tank.


 

I'll second that this is an unnecessary idea.



WhiteFire #5 Posted Nov 22 2019 - 13:28

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View PostButtknuckle, on Nov 21 2019 - 19:34, said:

True, but this proposed system could be abused.

Slap crew in manticore. Drop crew book on them and get two skills for price of one. Then move to another tank.


 

I'll second that this is an unnecessary idea.

If you move the crew, not only are you either losing XP by spending credits or burning gold, but the skills also deactivate.

If you put a commander who has trained a gunner skill like Snap Shot into a tank that has a gunner, the commander's Snap Shot skill does not work. This is already incorporated in-game.
So no, it can't be abused.



Buttknuckle #6 Posted Nov 22 2019 - 17:52

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View PostWhiteFire, on Nov 22 2019 - 12:28, said:

If you move the crew, not only are you either losing XP by spending credits or burning gold, but the skills also deactivate.

If you put a commander who has trained a gunner skill like Snap Shot into a tank that has a gunner, the commander's Snap Shot skill does not work. This is already incorporated in-game.
So no, it can't be abused.

You are fixating on keeping the same skills. There is no reason one would need to do that.

Example:

It takes 210K xp to get the 1st skill to 100%.

1 crew book gets you 250K crew xp.


 

Put commander into the manticore, select any two skills to train, apply one crew book. You now have a commander with 2 skills at 100% and about 40K unassigned xp on 2 additional skills. Do not select the 2nd skill.


 

Move commander to new tank and retrain with credits. The commander will be at 100% primary because it will use some of the unassigned xp.


 

Reset skills, you lose about 21K total of the unassigned xp.


 

Select 2 new skills. You'll still have two skills at 100% and be have about 12K of unassigned xp on two additional skills.


 

Two complete skills cost about 600K xp. With this you're getting them plus more for the cost of one 250K xp crew book. That's better than 2:1 return and definitely worth abusing.



WhiteFire #7 Posted Nov 23 2019 - 01:55

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View PostButtknuckle, on Nov 22 2019 - 11:52, said:

You are fixating on keeping the same skills. There is no reason one would need to do that.

Example:

It takes 210K xp to get the 1st skill to 100%.

1 crew book gets you 250K crew xp.


 

Put commander into the manticore, select any two skills to train, apply one crew book. You now have a commander with 2 skills at 100% and about 40K unassigned xp on 2 additional skills. Do not select the 2nd skill.


 

Move commander to new tank and retrain with credits. The commander will be at 100% primary because it will use some of the unassigned xp.


 

Reset skills, you lose about 21K total of the unassigned xp.


 

Select 2 new skills. You'll still have two skills at 100% and be have about 12K of unassigned xp on two additional skills.


 

Two complete skills cost about 600K xp. With this you're getting them plus more for the cost of one 250K xp crew book. That's better than 2:1 return and definitely worth abusing.

This can be easily countered by dealing with XP as intervals or levels, it is not multiplied by the number of roles. Perhaps I did not explain completely in the original post with the 1,000 XP example. You cannot and will not get 500,000 XP or 750,000 XP from a 250,000 XP skill book.

Example:

Lets say a crew member obtains 210,000 XP (Exactly enough for 1st skill at 100%) and the crew member is the commander of the Manticore.

The crew member can train one skill for every role they have, which are Cmdr, Gunner, Radio Operator; so 3 total at 100%. As originally outlined.

The crew member cannot train more than one in any category. They can only have "1st skills" because they only have enough XP for "1st skills".  As originally outlined.

If the crew member is moved to another vehicle where they fulfill the role of ONLY the Cmdr, they can have ONLY one skill at 100% and nothing more because they are at 210,000 XP (Enough for 1st skill) and not 630,000 XP (Enough for 2nd skill).

If the crew member is moved to another vehicle where they are Cmdr and Gunner but not Radio Operator, they would have two "1st skills" at 100%. The skill for Radio Operator becomes non-functional.

 

To have two skills in the same category, such as Repairs + Camo or Sixth Sense + Recon, means the crew member needs to be at 630,000 XP.

 

Once again, it cannot be abused, but by all means keep trying.

 



Buttknuckle #8 Posted Nov 23 2019 - 03:03

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Ok I think I see where you are going with this, and no it wasn't clear in the OP.

The example in the OP where you end with "Both Sixth Sense and Adrenaline Rush are now at 1,000 / 210,000 XP" suggests that once 210K xp is earned both skills would be at 100%. This is where I see room for abuse because under the current rules if you move that crew to another tank both skills would move with the crew and while they may not function, the crew would have 630K xp worth of skills for only 210K effort.

 

But if I understand correctly, you are saying that if the crew was moved they would only have xp enough to select 1 skill per role of the new position.

 






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