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[Sandbox] SPG Rebalance

sandbox arty rebalance arty rebalance

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SGTZIM #121 Posted Dec 02 2019 - 07:28

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It's come down to either get rid of arty altogether or leave it the [edited]alone. Guys don't like getting killed by arty, well I don't like getting overrun by these friggin wheeled [edited]ters either. They cannot miss it seems even though they are doing 60. Go ahead and kill the game, I really don't give a damn anymore. Between the MM and RNG it's not worth playing anyway.

ballyspringer #122 Posted Dec 02 2019 - 18:09

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I think this could be interesting.  Personally I think stun should never have been put into the game, it's annoying at best like a fly briefly buzzing around you in the middle of hiking.  But then effectively nerfing damage if you keep the 99% worthless mechanic and paying a ton more credits proposed for the non-stun damage with effectively the same damage as current with the HP buffs proposed?  The only reason I'm saying this is interesting is going back to having a shell that looks like it might actually do a bit of damage if you manage to hit and pen.

 

I played my BatChat 155-58 today for the first time in well over a year and a half just to get a feel for where it's at currently - and I apologized to my team for bringing such a horrible tank when I hit the flat side of a tier 8 T25 pilot just below the turret for 143 dmg, right after hitting the back of am obj 277 for 27 dmg (not splash - was a direct hit but to the back/side armor and not from the top).

 

I miss pre 9.18 arty - and yes back then I played almost nothing but heavy tanks who were often the focus of them, just throw a super heavy spall liner on your E100 and you were pretty good to go as long as you didn't play like a donkey.



scHnuuudle_bop #123 Posted Dec 03 2019 - 00:44

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View Postballyspringer, on Dec 02 2019 - 18:09, said:

I think this could be interesting.  Personally I think stun should never have been put into the game, it's annoying at best like a fly briefly buzzing around you in the middle of hiking.  But then effectively nerfing damage if you keep the 99% worthless mechanic and paying a ton more credits proposed for the non-stun damage with effectively the same damage as current with the HP buffs proposed?  The only reason I'm saying this is interesting is going back to having a shell that looks like it might actually do a bit of damage if you manage to hit and pen.

 

I played my BatChat 155-58 today for the first time in well over a year and a half just to get a feel for where it's at currently - and I apologized to my team for bringing such a horrible tank when I hit the flat side of a tier 8 T25 pilot just below the turret for 143 dmg, right after hitting the back of am obj 277 for 27 dmg (not splash - was a direct hit but to the back/side armor and not from the top).

 

I miss pre 9.18 arty - and yes back then I played almost nothing but heavy tanks who were often the focus of them, just throw a super heavy spall liner on your E100 and you were pretty good to go as long as you didn't play like a donkey.


The stun was introduced for just this effect. While the irritating fly is buzzing around, it gives the enemy the chance to have an easier time attacking. It serves as a great reminder that perhaps it is time to move.

Stunning groups of enemies who gather shoulder to shoulder, even better. Can stun, perhaps damage 3 or 4 at once, another lesson, exposed groups is not a great idea.

It forces the enemies to move somewhere else or play distracted all game.

 

The 9.18 update , sure it lowered the potential damage a lot, but in exchange, far better accuracy (well 45% from 20%) and a bit faster loading times.

Yes, smacking a big enemy with nothing more than a stun is a bit of a downer, but I still get satisfaction of the stunned enemy being an easier target and perhaps a bit of critical damages.

 

Now, on another note. Is there a web site , somewhere that has the current populations of servers. Logging into the sandbox to find out if anyone is online takes a while.


Edited by scHnuuudle_bop, Dec 03 2019 - 04:47.


HeavyMetalSix #124 Posted Dec 03 2019 - 02:59

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View PostSloveni4n, on Nov 27 2019 - 19:42, said:

TL;DR

 

IMAGINE REMOVING SPG TRASH FROM THE GAME ALTOGETHER 

Imagine a day goes by where zem isn't throwing a temper tantrum and demanding we all look at the dolly to see which pixel hole was touched.



Vava_das_SPGs #125 Posted Dec 03 2019 - 14:24

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View PostRagnarokBazil, on Nov 29 2019 - 00:00, said:

Id rather deal with Arty then rather deal with Brain dead tanks you have no hope in dealing with.. Chiftians anyone?

 

 

Here is an idea.. Wargaming why not ignore the Cry babies and just ask the SPG players what they want? since its been years now and all this Woke Boloney has been killing your game tell the players who are NOT arty players to go into the garbage pale and GRAB real feed back grab the attention to the SPG community.. NOT the Uniscum community. as Clearly that community group has done nothing but trash your game because they hate loseing no matter what.. stop pandering to the woke community and just pander to the fans instead.. not the hot garbage that wants to only ruin everything and cant be harmed by nothing.

Cause the moment you launched the sand box on day one 200+ players were in spgs under an hour.. THAT tells you guys something.. People love spgs your just catering to the wrong community.. Cater to the community that Likes SPGS and want just to idk LOVE your game? not curse at everyone because they lick windows and are never happy..

 

SPGS keeps uniscums from becoming too good and keeps them in there place and learn to respect other people in an SPG instead of you know.. Destroying your game? In my honest opinion... Restore SPGS back to the 8.6 and under days.. Who cares what people think you seen the results already.. Woke people stink instead of going woke.. Just cater to your REAL fans of your game...

Give me a challenge.. Dont give me victorys on a platter even if you restore 6v6 arties back in its better then the hot woke garbage you have right now.. Woke idiots want to destroy your game.. as Serb has said.. once.. You start with SPGS they will go after the others.. Ever since that strayed from the course your game has been total hot woke SJW garbage.. Restore the game back to where OP things cant poop on everything they see.. Stop catering to the woke skullfishes and cater to the real old school gamers.. Rock paper Sciccor days.

Wow... Can I sign that post, too?
Brilliantly written. :medal:



ballyspringer #126 Posted Dec 03 2019 - 16:30

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View PostscHnuuudle_bop, on Dec 02 2019 - 23:44, said:


The stun was introduced for just this effect. While the irritating fly is buzzing around, it gives the enemy the chance to have an easier time attacking. It serves as a great reminder that perhaps it is time to move.

Stunning groups of enemies who gather shoulder to shoulder, even better. Can stun, perhaps damage 3 or 4 at once, another lesson, exposed groups is not a great idea.

It forces the enemies to move somewhere else or play distracted all game.

I get what you are saying, but at the end of the day it really doesn't really do anything.  Yes you can stun 3 or 4 at once if they are grouped together, but what does that honestly accomplish?  Typically nothing since in random battles people don't work together to use that couple seconds to rush in to their advantage, unless it has a real damage component there is no negative feedback for grouping up like that - again it's like a fly buzzing around, it no longer bugs you once you learn to just ignore it since it can't hurt you.

 

I would say stun is the first thing that from what I've seen makes people camp harder, if you damage someone sitting in the back behind a bush/hull down they have to move out of that spot which to me is what arty is in the game to do (maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I see it - a move the campers class) - if you just stun them with almost no damage it just makes them camp harder and doesn't give them any reason to move - what camper is going to move out of that relatively safe spot now that they have a stunned tank? 

 

I understand they brought stun in to make arty a non-damage dealing class to make people who complained about getting hit while hull down or camping a spot happy - but it didn't accomplish that goal since it made Arty players upset, and the people who complain about arty still complain about arty so it didn't make them happy either.  Let's be honest if they removed arty those same people would just start to complain about hidden TD's and so on and so forth.  WG needs to just stop trying to make them happy since they can't, it will always be something else since everyone has a different idea of what makes this game fun to them.  I've spent a long time working in corporate Human Resources, and I can tell you with 100% certainty some people will complain no matter what.  On a daily basis I work with people who just won't take yes for an answer since they want a slightly different yes.

 

TLDR: maybe this is just what I've seen and I could be wrong but no stun + damage = get the hell out of that safe camp spot, stun + no damage = camp harder.



D8W2P4 #127 Posted Dec 04 2019 - 00:45

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View Postballyspringer, on Dec 03 2019 - 10:30, said:

I get what you are saying, but at the end of the day it really doesn't really do anything.  Yes you can stun 3 or 4 at once if they are grouped together, but what does that honestly accomplish?  Typically nothing since in random battles people don't work together to use that couple seconds to rush in to their advantage, unless it has a real damage component there is no negative feedback for grouping up like that - again it's like a fly buzzing around, it no longer bugs you once you learn to just ignore it since it can't hurt you.

 

I would say stun is the first thing that from what I've seen makes people camp harder, if you damage someone sitting in the back behind a bush/hull down they have to move out of that spot which to me is what arty is in the game to do (maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I see it - a move the campers class) - if you just stun them with almost no damage it just makes them camp harder and doesn't give them any reason to move - what camper is going to move out of that relatively safe spot now that they have a stunned tank? 

 

I understand they brought stun in to make arty a non-damage dealing class to make people who complained about getting hit while hull down or camping a spot happy - but it didn't accomplish that goal since it made Arty players upset, and the people who complain about arty still complain about arty so it didn't make them happy either.  Let's be honest if they removed arty those same people would just start to complain about hidden TD's and so on and so forth.  WG needs to just stop trying to make them happy since they can't, it will always be something else since everyone has a different idea of what makes this game fun to them.  I've spent a long time working in corporate Human Resources, and I can tell you with 100% certainty some people will complain no matter what.  On a daily basis I work with people who just won't take yes for an answer since they want a slightly different yes.

 

TLDR: maybe this is just what I've seen and I could be wrong but no stun + damage = get the hell out of that safe camp spot, stun + no damage = camp harder.

Frankly the camper argument is worthless since camping occurs because of map design, if WG doesn't want camping they need to remove the spots that people can camp at (bunches of bushes at the map borders).



FrontenacDuVandoo #128 Posted Dec 05 2019 - 01:49

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Spoiler

 

Those numbers really don't make sense. The difference in damage between the shell that has stun and doesn't is just too small.

~15% extra damage is not enough to justify not doing any stun, especially since you hardly ever do a full damage roll.

 

Otherwise, the idea of having a choice between shell types is good in theory, but in reality it's not useful when you have 30-45 seconds for a reload. The battlefield can change a lot during that reload, so what made sense 45 seconds ago has a good chance of not being the right choice when you're ready to shoot.

 

With all the RNG involved, I really don't see how the AP shells are interesting. RNG on dispersion whether you hit the target. Then RNG roll on penetration. If you pass that then you can roll for damage. Oh yeah, hope you don't get spaced armor in the French arty.

Unless AP shots get much better dispersion the better choice is to shoot HE all the time and deal some damage and some stun all the time.

 

 

Otherwise, if you want players to test mechanics on the test server you need to let players try out any tank in the game. Having to grind to unlock high tiers defeats the purpose of the test server.



SquishySupreme #129 Posted Dec 05 2019 - 09:54

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It's worse.  Almost all tanks will have a 20% on average HP BOOST to their HP pool.  

That means that the basic ammo will now do 40% less damage relative to the new increased HP.
Premium ammo will do 5% less - and have stun removed in addition.
AP will exist, but versus 20% more armor, it's effectively a TD shell every 30 seconds two tiers down.

Full across the board nerf once you run the numbers.  That Wargaming as usual is only telling us half of the story and omitting the HP increases is telling.

DVK9 #130 Posted Dec 05 2019 - 17:53

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View PostGoebel, on Nov 26 2019 - 12:57, said:

I just gave the sandbox server a chance. Played 11 battles, got 3 tier Vs, and started queuing into 3 arty games. Which makes sense, this is an arty focused pass and people want to see it for themselves.. However the 3rd game in a kv-1 I just alt-f4'ed. I haven't been this frustrated playing this game for a while. Heck, I don't even this the right spot to post this, I don't use the forums here. I just couldn't walk away from this without saying something. 

I just wait until it hits the test server.

then I can make an educated guess on what playing arty will be like. Sandbox is still pie in the sky garbage.

 



scHnuuudle_bop #131 Posted Dec 06 2019 - 01:37

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I take it the Deadeye perk is back in play with the proposed ammo.







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