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[Sandbox] SPG Rebalance

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Tingler82 #41 Posted Nov 26 2019 - 23:00

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SPG's as they are, less accurate and coupled with long aim times, most targets are missed, that is why WG introduced the stun when they nurf the tanks last time! So it balance the damage SPG's lost. A better re-balance would be to allow only 2 SPG's in a game, instead of 3.  I never do what my Average damage per shot is now. It's much less then average even with a direct hit.  And without more armor, or, view range, trying to shot gun, is a matter of,"Do you feel lucky! Well, do you Punk!

Metal_SpecialNeedsShrddr #42 Posted Nov 26 2019 - 23:06

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The problem with artillery is not the shells, nor the stun, it's the magical top down view they have that's the problem. I'm sorry, but direct fire artillery from long range without having a clear view of a tank with a magical top down view it not how artillery works, and you have no argument against that statement. You have to give arty players an option. Either give arty a sniper view and have them fire at targets spotted within their view range like a TD, or fire from long range blind. They can't have both. That's how artillery works and that's how it's worked since the beginning of time. These changes however are ok for the most part. Stun imo needs to be completely removed, or have the stun effect happen only when arty hits the tank directly, not near the tank.

 

Imo I think the class should just be removed at this point. One of the reasons the game is dying overall is because of artillery. The class isn't the biggest reason, but it's a serious part of it, as well as map balance, tank power creep, etc. The magical top down view that arty players have needs to be removed entirely.



WarDemon_2014 #43 Posted Nov 26 2019 - 23:06

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So, simply put this will make all SPG play that per WOT in its newest form is completely "irrelevant" to totally useless. Good way to get the last few NA server players to quit playing. Than they can just close down the server and not have to worry about it any more.

 

The removal of arty in the game which is what they are aiming to do, would turn the game into a camp fest. Taking a type of tank that is already extremely weak and irrelevant per the developers at WOT, and making it weaker, is not the way to make it relevant again. 



Metal_SpecialNeedsShrddr #44 Posted Nov 26 2019 - 23:16

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View PostWarDemon_2014, on Nov 26 2019 - 17:06, said:

So, simply put this will make all SPG play that per WOT in its newest form is completely "irrelevant" to totally useless. Good way to get the last few NA server players to quit playing. Than they can just close down the server and not have to worry about it any more.

 

The removal of arty in the game which is what they are aiming to do, would turn the game into a camp fest. Taking a type of tank that is already extremely weak and irrelevant per the developers at WOT, and making it weaker, is not the way to make it relevant again. 


That's actually incorrect. Games without artillery are much better than games with arty since players can be more aggressive.



choSenfroZen_1 #45 Posted Nov 26 2019 - 23:16

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View PostMetal_SpecialNeedsShrddr, on Nov 26 2019 - 14:06, said:

The problem with artillery is not the shells, nor the stun, it's the magical top down view they have that's the problem. I'm sorry, but direct fire artillery from long range without having a clear view of a tank with a magical top down view it not how artillery works, and you have no argument against that statement. You have to give arty players an option. Either give arty a sniper view and have them fire at targets spotted within their view range like a TD, or fire from long range blind. They can't have both. That's how artillery works and that's how it's worked since the beginning of time. These changes however are ok for the most part. Stun imo needs to be completely removed, or have the stun effect happen only when arty hits the tank directly, not near the tank.

 

Imo I think the class should just be removed at this point. One of the reasons the game is dying overall is because of artillery. The class isn't the biggest reason, but it's a serious part of it, as well as map balance, tank power creep, etc. The magical top down view that arty players have needs to be removed entirely.


The game is not dying, they added new servers.

It is a ten year old game.

And if anything drives players away, it is the toxic nature that statistics and those who think they are important enough to whine about tomatoes.

 

The overhead view.

It is simply a combination of maps, ballistic and topographical. Combine that with air photos and air recon, then add ground spotters, presto a simplification of ALL that is the strategic view. Without it, ummmm, well simply put, an idiotic portion of the game. It is no bigger a stretch than the ability of players to somehow see a red outline through 9 bushes and a forest. Get rid of the red outline first., make tanks actually have to maneuver to target, instead of the imaginary ability to SEE through bushes.



Cheap_exe #46 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 00:03

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Just gimme back Pre-Stun Arty with the High Alpha but cap them to 2 per battle. ht was the best Arty imho.

Bronco272 #47 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 00:04

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View PostscHnuuudle_bop, on Nov 26 2019 - 21:35, said:


Domo, how do I apply for the sandbox?

 

Want to find out if I should uninstall.

 

Just wasted money on a premium account, and now you  are changing artillery AGAIN..

 

It is bad enough getting ragged on all games. Change something else. Light tanks ALL have guns to ppowerful, fix them. many heavy tanks are too fast, fix them. TD's are OP, fix them.

Clown cars arwe too fast , fix them.

 

I am disabled and only able to play one class. Basically you are saying that you will slowly ensure I can no longer play this game.

 

Firstly, here is the link for the sandbox (but I don't know if it is expired or something): https://worldoftanks...andbox-october/

 

Secondly, the reason WG is changing artillery now is because it coincides with their changes in shell types.  I'm not going to respond to the rest since you make broad generalizations without any real evidence or solutions.

 

Thirdly, artillery will still be useful.  You still deal damage, stun enemies, and can now also penetrate.  The difference is that players will have to think ahead and plan instead of just clicking.  



Bronco272 #48 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 00:09

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View PostMetal_SpecialNeedsShrddr, on Nov 26 2019 - 23:16, said:


That's actually incorrect. Games without artillery are much better than games with arty since players can be more aggressive.


Personally, I enjoy games that have 1-2 artillery because it means that my team has something that can fight against the super heavies that we may not be able to pen easily.  With more aggression in games, they go by faster and are more unbalanced in terms of survival.  Maybe this is just me, but I like having long and close battles that force me to think and strategize.



choSenfroZen_1 #49 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 00:20

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View PostBronco272, on Nov 26 2019 - 15:09, said:


Personally, I enjoy games that have 1-2 artillery because it means that my team has something that can fight against the super heavies that we may not be able to pen easily.  With more aggression in games, they go by faster and are more unbalanced in terms of survival.  Maybe this is just me, but I like having long and close battles that force me to think and strategize.

I sure hope they do not do something like 2 per game.

 

I REALLY like the game variety.

What you suggest is 2 artillery EVERY game, guaranteed. The one fifth in EVERY queue will have to go somewhere. So it would be in EVERY game. Now it is 30% 3 arty, 30%2 arty, 30% 1 arty and 10% no arty.

Your suggestion would make sure no one would ever get anything but 2 per game EVERY game.

Lets just simplify things. Make it 3 of each class, then match vehicles exactly like warships.


Edited by choSenfroZen_1, Nov 27 2019 - 00:21.


Metal_SpecialNeedsShrddr #50 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 00:27

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View PostchoSenfroZen_1, on Nov 26 2019 - 17:16, said:


The game is not dying, they added new servers.

It is a ten year old game.

And if anything drives players away, it is the toxic nature that statistics and those who think they are important enough to whine about tomatoes.

 

The overhead view.

It is simply a combination of maps, ballistic and topographical. Combine that with air photos and air recon, then add ground spotters, presto a simplification of ALL that is the strategic view. Without it, ummmm, well simply put, an idiotic portion of the game. It is no bigger a stretch than the ability of players to somehow see a red outline through 9 bushes and a forest. Get rid of the red outline first., make tanks actually have to maneuver to target, instead of the imaginary ability to SEE through bushes.


Oh boy, here we go again. The same dumb argument from an arty player who continues to not even realize that This Game HAS WORLD WAR 2 AND COLD WAR TANKS AND ARTILLERY THAT AT THE TIME HAD NOTHING BUT A MAP OF THE AREA. ARE YOU HIGH, OR JUST PLAIN RETARDED? Artillery at that time did not have satellites to rely on like modern SPGs have now. Even now with modern satellites and modern SPGs, satellite imagery is not that efficient. It didn't matter if there were air recon or air spotters. Artillery squadrons and SPG crews were given a map of the area and were severely reliant on the infantry and radio communication. When artillery support was needed, the SPGs and the artillery squadrons would line up the shot, guess the range between themselves and the targeted area, aim in the general direction, then fire and cross their fingers and hope for the F**KING best. Then, you wanna know what happened if they needed to be direct fire support? They fought along side normal tanks, like M12s did in the 3rd armored division. Like I said, you don't have a compelling argument for the top down view.



choSenfroZen_1 #51 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 00:41

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View PostMetal_SpecialNeedsShrddr, on Nov 26 2019 - 15:27, said:


Oh boy, here we go again. The same dumb argument from an arty player who continues to not even realize that This Game HAS WORLD WAR 2 AND COLD WAR TANKS AND ARTILLERY THAT AT THE TIME HAD NOTHING BUT A MAP OF THE AREA. ARE YOU HIGH, OR JUST PLAIN RETARDED? Artillery at that time did not have satellites to rely on like modern SPGs have now. Even now with modern satellites and modern SPGs, satellite imagery is not that efficient. It didn't matter if there were air recon or air spotters. Artillery squadrons and SPG crews were given a map of the area and were severely reliant on the infantry and radio communication. When artillery support was needed, the SPGs and the artillery squadrons would line up the shot, guess the range between themselves and the targeted area, aim in the general direction, then fire and cross their fingers and hope for the F**KING best. Then, you wanna know what happened if they needed to be direct fire support? They fought along side normal tanks, like M12s did in the 3rd armored division. Like I said, you don't have a compelling argument for the top down view.


A:  a statement that you disagree with is not retarded, nor am I. Your paragraph above, shows not a retarded person, but a juvenile attitude. Grow up, and accept your opinion is not the only one.

 

B: no one in any place has said anything about satellites. Perhaps, READ the text prior to launching off on what I see as a very embarrassing tirade.

 

C: your babbling on about what was or was not available, is very strange. There were maps, there was ground spotters, there were airplanes, geeze I think photography was invented then.

Map, pretty sure they existed. SO combine the above, NOT NEEDING space ships, and the strategic view.

 

D: now, your bizarre angry tirade, please explain how tanks can SEE through bushes. Pretty certain infrared was not invented then either.

 

 E: sorry, you are the one with ``special needs`` in your name, and with this angry snivel, it shows.

 

F: almost forgot. I am a tank player. I only played enough arty so I would not sound like you, it no longer bothers me at all. Grow a pair, play some arty. Your toddler like attitude may be lessened.


Edited by choSenfroZen_1, Nov 27 2019 - 01:05.


sharpshooter345 #52 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 00:56

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View PostMetal_SpecialNeedsShrddr, on Nov 26 2019 - 23:27, said:


Oh boy, here we go again. The same dumb argument from an arty player who continues to not even realize that This Game HAS WORLD WAR 2 AND COLD WAR TANKS AND ARTILLERY THAT AT THE TIME HAD NOTHING BUT A MAP OF THE AREA. ARE YOU HIGH, OR JUST PLAIN RETARDED? Artillery at that time did not have satellites to rely on like modern SPGs have now. Even now with modern satellites and modern SPGs, satellite imagery is not that efficient. It didn't matter if there were air recon or air spotters. Artillery squadrons and SPG crews were given a map of the area and were severely reliant on the infantry and radio communication. When artillery support was needed, the SPGs and the artillery squadrons would line up the shot, guess the range between themselves and the targeted area, aim in the general direction, then fire and cross their fingers and hope for the F**KING best. Then, you wanna know what happened if they needed to be direct fire support? They fought along side normal tanks, like M12s did in the 3rd armored division. Like I said, you don't have a compelling argument for the top down view.



didnt know you were a gunner in the second world war? you know there was alot of aerial recon done with top down photos taken. and maps with grids.... the forward observer would give the grid of the intended target and the guys back by the guns would calculate the needed elevation and whatnot to hit that area... and if the missed there would be corrections called back and made until the target is hit...

modern artillery is actually very good and can hit the intended target sometimes with the first salvo, but unlike this game new and old arty was a bombardment weapon. so if you want realism then there should be about a dozen or so spgs outside of the map where you cant hit them and they are firing at targets called in by their team....

 

....also you are playing an arcade version of tank combat, you can see through bushes, tanks vanish infront of you. tanks have health bars.. get over the view and be glad that artillery isnt the same as it was at the start like it should still be, cause if your dumb [edited]was caught in a bad spot you would get deleted for being a bad player.  if you want realism go play war thunder. 

also grow the hell up and stop acting like a spoiled child. instead act like a grown as person. 
 



_LT__ #53 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 01:36

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This is actually bad news for a arty player.  I'm very good playing this class.  There is NO need to nerf the HE shells.  Stun damage was the only thing making playing these vehicles productive. Several points WG you need to consider, Arty reload is long, the accuracy is horrific the SPG with a few exceptions is slow and cumbersome to manuever.  No armour even with the few arties that have high frontal armour that every gun seems to pen with ease.  So why would I pay MORE silver to fire a crapshoot shell?  Waste of time and my credits.  Its bad enough you got the OP wheelies running right thru my team to kill me within the first 4 mins of the game.  You going to see less arties playing.  It wont matter what shell I choose, the damage will be low on all of them so I will simply play the cheapest shell, if I play arty anymore after this.  You might as well just remove the class from the game and reimburse me for my SPGs.  And for all those cheering this rebalance...dont cry when they nerf your favourite class next.

stalkervision #54 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 02:33

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View PostMetal_SpecialNeedsShrddr, on Nov 26 2019 - 18:27, said:


Oh boy, here we go again. The same dumb argument from an arty player who continues to not even realize that This Game HAS WORLD WAR 2 AND COLD WAR TANKS AND ARTILLERY THAT AT THE TIME HAD NOTHING BUT A MAP OF THE AREA. ARE YOU HIGH, OR JUST PLAIN RETARDED? Artillery at that time did not have satellites to rely on like modern SPGs have now. Even now with modern satellites and modern SPGs, satellite imagery is not that efficient. It didn't matter if there were air recon or air spotters. Artillery squadrons and SPG crews were given a map of the area and were severely reliant on the infantry and radio communication. When artillery support was needed, the SPGs and the artillery squadrons would line up the shot, guess the range between themselves and the targeted area, aim in the general direction, then fire and cross their fingers and hope for the F**KING best. Then, you wanna know what happened if they needed to be direct fire support? They fought along side normal tanks, like M12s did in the 3rd armored division. Like I said, you don't have a compelling argument for the top down view.

Actually your completely wrong. Armies often employed up front artillery observers that used radio to correct their artillery aim. The observer would call in a strike and correct the aim of it was long or short.



HeavyMetalSix #55 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 02:57

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So the routine 300 damage shots are going to do what 150 or less? #stilloplul #hellabroken #sarcasm

Metal_SpecialNeedsShrddr #56 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 03:15

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View Poststalkervision, on Nov 26 2019 - 20:33, said:

Actually your completely wrong. Armies often employed up front artillery observers that used radio to correct their artillery aim. The observer would call in a strike and correct the aim of it was long or short.


You...you literally just said what I said, but you're saying I'm wrong? Artillery observers where in infantry, and I literally said arty relied on infantry and radio communication. Did you not read what I wrote? I'm talking about the satellite overview that arty has that needs to be removed since that's the main problem.



stalkervision #57 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 03:42

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I don't know why I even bother as your inbreed arty hater.  Your rational is a top down view should not be in the game isn't it because it isn't realistic ? lmboWhat is realistic in this game?  wake up and Buy a Clue !

stalkervision #58 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 03:48

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Do you believe tank crews magically resurrected themselves, tracks magically fixed themselves,vertical stabs were a common thing in this era tanks, arty did Not have shells that could totally obliterate a tank or did Not carry Heat rounds for close in tank fighting? Seriously BUY A CLUE !

Peri851 #59 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 03:56

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Good Evening

 

With the introduction of wheeled vehicles that go up to 95 Kph completing against 40's era tracked tanks and SPGs was not ridiculous enough....there is the constant power creep. Not only did WOTS  lower the effectiveness (sorry - rebalancing)  of SPGs in the previous patches, WOTS is again going to "re-balance" SPGs again.. Players who have enjoyed SPGs have continually seen these vehicles effective performance within the game diminished over the past few years. Now it looks like WOTS just found another reason to force more players to to use premium (gold) ammunition. WOTS is a business and a business requires to may money, I have no issue with that, however it now looks that WOTS is just getting "GREEDY " forcing all to fire premium ammo in order to win a match....

I have supported WOTS for years but this apparently is just greed.......players are getting tired of it.

Suggestion: separating vehicle play by era.....WW2 era tanks and SPGs should not be matched against 50 era EBRs and tanks with ridiculous armor and penetration,

 



stalkervision #60 Posted Nov 27 2019 - 04:00

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Excellent suggestion.





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