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No Gold Guarantee in loot boxes

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SwollenOstrich #21 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 16:08

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View PostBadCorps, on Dec 09 2019 - 09:05, said:

And people didn't want to believe me when I said that the large lootboxes were a gamble.

You're trying to get something better, you're better off trying to use one of the dozens of -30% off coupons that you can use on full price stuff only.

Wanna see gambling? Trying to apply a WG coupon on an a tank you actually want.  :D



Ortinoth_ #22 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 16:16

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View Postcomradekillshot, on Dec 09 2019 - 07:00, said:

There does not appear to be a guarantee of gold in this year's loot boxes. They state the only guarantee is a couple decorations. This makes me drastically reconsider buying them at the level I was going too. The small amount of gold last year made the loot box worth it no matter what else came in it. Am I correct with this interpretation of the event? Wargaming did state that the loot boxes would be worth more than you pay but this is gambling and Wargaming has no obligation to fulfill that promise.

 

Edit: To clarify we are discussing the large loot boxes you pay money for.

You can not even think this as the details for the large gift boxes HAVE NOT been announced - so please hold onto your seat and wait for the information to come



_Kradok_ #23 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 16:21

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View PostBadCorps, on Dec 09 2019 - 10:05, said:

And people didn't want to believe me when I said that the large lootboxes were a gamble.

You're trying to get something better, you're better off trying to use one of the dozens of -30% off coupons that you can use on full price stuff only.

 

 

No, you didn't want to believe people when they gave you facts concerning what is, and is not, gambling.

 

You never answer why you continue to stick around a game you despise so much... are you trying to convince others to leave, and that's your hobby... or are you simply a masochist who thrives on the negative?



Blackstone #24 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 16:23

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View PostOrtinoth_, on Dec 09 2019 - 10:16, said:

You can not even think this as the details for the large gift boxes HAVE NOT been announced - so please hold onto your seat and wait for the information to come

Exactly. There will be a separate announcement regarding large to-purchase gift crates.



__WarChild__ #25 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 16:24

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Dec 09 2019 - 09:01, said:

It is WG, they sometimes have backwards logic.

 

If true, it makes sense from a gambling perspective.  The person hell bent on gambling will buy them with or without minimum values.  WG gets more ducats, the in game economy doesn't get a turbo boost, and the world turns.  And a fair many were gambling on a tank and not the value. 

 

However, those of us who just see a 100%+ return of in game goods won't do it.  We'll be better served buying gold instead.  I was gambling against getting a tank, and in my YouTube lootbox recording audibly groan when I pull a defender.  

 

 

The changes I've seen, with a rumored "event" following the holidays, indicate that they want as little economic excess in this game is possible.  

 

The first iterations had credits coming in hand over fist, faster than we could spend, last years has the option to pull massive credits.   This year it's possible but significantly harder to get to 50% credit boost. 

 

While I like the game, WG isn't above fishy shenanigans

 

I was really just teasing.  I don't think they'll nerf the boxes/gold one bit.  But you're right, they just might.

 

However, I think that they need people to spend money on the game.  I bought WAY MORE boxes than I originally anticipated last year because of the payouts regardless of the tanks.  After I received ALL of the tanks, I still bought boxes because I figured it was the best deal WG would ever offer.  I filled my account with more Credits and Gold than I ever imagined possible, but I also spent hundreds more than I had planned.  I then had the idea that I would sit on my fortune but Wargaming subsequently had:

 

1) Black Market

2) Tanks for Gold

3) $2M Credit Crew Handbooks

4) Discounted Camo & Crew Training, etc.

 

And now I'm back to being relatively credit poor and a reasonable amount of Gold (I've been able to maintain my Gold with tournaments and my clan gifts - and 2 people who donated to me).  If Wargaming has the SAME value for MONEY that they did last year, I'll buy the same amount that I did last year - which was A LOT.  That's as plain and simple as I can put it.  And that's even with my newly minted Level 2 CC status (L2 don't get no free tanks, just codes :-)

 

If WG gets wonky with the boxes, I'll still buy some but just LESS than I plan on.  The ball is in their court and if I were a betting man, I'd be willing to bet that they want me and folks like me to give them one hell of a year end financial boost.

 

What do you think?

 

:unsure:

 



StoveBolt54 #26 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 16:25

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View PostBlackstone, on Dec 09 2019 - 08:05, said:

 

^^^THIS 100%^^^

 

Everyone, the sky isn't falling...Relax.

 


R-E-L-A-X he said.

 

Spoiler

 



Subject_of_Pain #27 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 16:28

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View Posthighex, on Dec 09 2019 - 15:17, said:

FFS!!!!

i for one understand nothing is perfect.

anything that makes one person happy will upset another person.

this is my whine about whiners complaining about free stuff and the quality and quantity of said free stuff.

PLEASE: STFU ABOUT NOT GETTING THE FREE STUFF YOU THINK YOU DESERVE!!!!!


Then you SHOULD understand that players, (who are customers) are concerned about stuff they are paying for with real money.

REMEMBER KIDS, DON'T HUFF GAS!:great:



g327 #28 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 16:38

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View Post__WarChild__, on Dec 09 2019 - 10:24, said:

 

I was really just teasing.  I don't think they'll nerf the boxes/gold one bit.  But you're right, they just might.

 

However, I think that they need people to spend money on the game.  I bought WAY MORE boxes than I originally anticipated last year because of the payouts regardless of the tanks.  After I received ALL of the tanks, I still bought boxes because I figured it was the best deal WG would ever offer.  I filled my account with more Credits and Gold than I ever imagined possible, but I also spent hundreds more than I had planned.  I then had the idea that I would sit on my fortune but Wargaming subsequently had:

 

1) Black Market

2) Tanks for Gold

3) $2M Credit Crew Handbooks

4) Discounted Camo & Crew Training, etc.

 

And now I'm back to being relatively credit poor and a reasonable amount of Gold (I've been able to maintain my Gold with tournaments and my clan gifts - and 2 people who donated to me).  If Wargaming has the SAME value for MONEY that they did last year, I'll buy the same amount that I did last year - which was A LOT.  That's as plain and simple as I can put it.  And that's even with my newly minted Level 2 CC status (L2 don't get no free tanks, just codes :-)

 

If WG gets wonky with the boxes, I'll still buy some but just LESS than I plan on.  The ball is in their court and if I were a betting man, I'd be willing to bet that they want me and folks like me to give them one hell of a year end financial boost.

 

What do you think?

 

:unsure:

 

I have read that WG financially needs/counts/depends on the revenue generated from loot box sales. If what I read is true, then it would be fiscally imprudent to "nerf" the product. Period.

 

I intend to spend several hundred dollars in loot box purchases for myself and others provided that the value of the product is at least equal to last year.

 

If the value exceeds that of last year, then I would consider spending even more.

 

But if the value is reduced from last year (read: no guaranteed gold), then I will spend my money elsewhere.



BadCorps #29 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 16:38

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View PostSwollenOstrich, on Dec 09 2019 - 09:08, said:

Wanna see gambling? Trying to apply a WG coupon on an a tank you actually want.  :D

You can use it on any tank in the Premium shop, but only at full price.



BadCorps #30 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 16:44

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View Post_Kradok_, on Dec 09 2019 - 09:21, said:

 

 

No, you didn't want to believe people when they gave you facts concerning what is, and is not, gambling.

 

You never answer why you continue to stick around a game you despise so much... are you trying to convince others to leave, and that's your hobby... or are you simply a masochist who thrives on the negative?

I shall let Oxford take this one.

 

Gamble

Verb

1. To play games for a chance of money

2. To take risky action in hope of a desired result.

 

Noun

1. An act of gambling, an enterprise undertaken or risk attempted with risk of loss and chance of profit or success.

 

Verb definition 2 defines what I lootbox is. You're dropping $10 or whatever in the hopes that you get something worth more than the $10 you already spent. You are by definition, taking a chance. If you get something worth $10, you get a net gain of 0. So it's not profitable and therefore a loss.



Blackstone #31 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 16:56

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View PostBadCorps, on Dec 09 2019 - 10:44, said:

I shall let Oxford take this one.

 

Gamble

Verb

1. To play games for a chance of money

2. To take risky action in hope of a desired result.

 

Noun

1. An act of gambling, an enterprise undertaken or risk attempted with risk of loss and chance of profit or success.

 

Verb definition 2 defines what I lootbox is. You're dropping $10 or whatever in the hopes that you get something worth more than the $10 you already spent. You are by definition, taking a chance. If you get something worth $10, you get a net gain of 0. So it's not profitable and therefore a loss.

 

I see...

 

So by your interpretation of what the gift boxes are and shoehorning the dictionary definition into it, you have more legal knowledge than every lawyer employed by the US Justice Dept.

 



FrontenacDuVandoo #32 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 17:02

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View Postcomradekillshot, on Dec 09 2019 - 09:00, said:

There does not appear to be a guarantee of gold in this year's loot boxes. They state the only guarantee is a couple decorations. This makes me drastically reconsider buying them at the level I was going too. The small amount of gold last year made the loot box worth it no matter what else came in it. Am I correct with this interpretation of the event? Wargaming did state that the loot boxes would be worth more than you pay but this is gambling and Wargaming has no obligation to fulfill that promise.

 

Edit: To clarify we are discussing the large loot boxes you pay money for.


Please change your title to "No official announcement yet on the content of lootbox".

Because they only thing we have now is the Holiday Ops announcement.

What you are looking for is a page like this one, where they also specify which tanks are up for grabs: https://worldoftanks...oot-boxes-2019/


Edited by FrontenacDuVandoo, Dec 09 2019 - 17:04.


spud_tuber #33 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 17:08

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View PostBlackstone, on Dec 09 2019 - 09:56, said:

 

I see...

 

So by your interpretation of what the gift boxes are and shoehorning the dictionary definition into it, you have more legal knowledge than every lawyer employed by the US Justice Dept.

 

 

You do realize companies pay big money to lawyers to allow them to skirt legal definitions of things yet still actually do what they want?  

 

I'm not necessarily saying it is gambling or not,  but your argument why it is not only applies in a legal sense, not a practical sense, which seems to be what the other guy is arguing.   IE, you two seem to be arguing two somewhat different points. 



Tao_Te_Tomato #34 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 17:08

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View PostBlackstone, on Dec 09 2019 - 16:56, said:

 

I see...

 

So by your interpretation of what the gift boxes are and shoehorning the dictionary definition into it, you have more legal knowledge than every lawyer employed by the US Justice Dept.

 

 

Wouldn't be the first.

 

In this forum, even, let alone life.  :facepalm:



CaptainBussey #35 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 17:10

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View PosteXs11, on Dec 09 2019 - 08:38, said:

Do you have a link by any chance?

sure.

 

 

It is from last year but I hope they continue to use it this year because we can compare value from last year to this one.

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/592880-please-post-your-results-from-buying-the-christmas-boxes-here-were-doing-a-value-analysis/

 



SwollenOstrich #36 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 17:10

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View PostBadCorps, on Dec 09 2019 - 09:44, said:

Verb definition 2 defines what I lootbox is. You're dropping $10 or whatever in the hopes that you get something worth more than the $10 you already spent. You are by definition, taking a chance. If you get something worth $10, you get a net gain of 0. So it's not profitable and therefore a loss.

Lol. So if you buy a candy bar for $1 hoping it taste good, then you get a candy bar worth a dollar. Therefore, you get a net gain of 0. So you lost money. So you gambled. 

 

LOCK EVERY PERSON UP who buys ANY PRODUCT, ANYWHERE EVER who hopes that it might be a useful or tasty product!!!!!! Bunch of law-breaking gamblers all!!!!

 

 

 



Tupinambis #37 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 17:13

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Yeah there's been no official announcement about *anything* in the large boxes yet, so I'd maybe wait for that before worrying.

Tao_Te_Tomato #38 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 17:13

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View Postspud_tuber, on Dec 09 2019 - 17:08, said:

You do realize companies pay big money to lawyers to allow them to skirt legal definitions of things yet still actually do what they want?  

 

I'm not necessarily saying it is gambling or not,  but your argument why it is not only applies in a legal sense, not a practical sense, which seems to be what the other guy is arguing.   IE, you two seem to be arguing two somewhat different points. 

 

Or two different definitions.  People (not pointing at you, spud) have a lot of trouble recognizing that words can have different meanings, and that the "social" meaning is not always actionable as the "legal" meaning might be.

 

It is not illegal to take a chance.

 

It can be illegal to gamble - or to offer gambling.

 

But since "gamble" can ALSO mean "to take a chance," the hard-of-thinking automatically conflate the two meanings and want to argue that taking a chance is legally regulated.  :facepalm:

 

Setting aside the whole issue of "it's not gambling if you get more in value than you paid" LEGAL argument.  

 

And, of course, bearing in mind "what is the 'value' of pixel gold and pixel tanks?"  :teethhappy:



spud_tuber #39 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 17:13

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View PostBadCorps, on Dec 09 2019 - 09:44, said:

I shall let Oxford take this one.

 

Gamble

Verb

1. To play games for a chance of money

2. To take risky action in hope of a desired result.

 

Noun

1. An act of gambling, an enterprise undertaken or risk attempted with risk of loss and chance of profit or success.

 

Verb definition 2 defines what I lootbox is. You're dropping $10 or whatever in the hopes that you get something worth more than the $10 you already spent. You are by definition, taking a chance. If you get something worth $10, you get a net gain of 0. So it's not profitable and therefore a loss.

Umm,  if you get what you paid for, I'm not sure it is gambling, even in a practical sense, let alone a legal one.

 

Now,  if you were arguing you were taking a chance on the boxes being the best return on your money, and got bad draw and some other option would have given you a better ROI, then perhaps I might agree that it is a gamble in a practical sense.



spud_tuber #40 Posted Dec 09 2019 - 17:17

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View PostTao_Te_Tomato, on Dec 09 2019 - 10:13, said:

 

Or two different definitions.  People (not pointing at you, spud) have a lot of trouble recognizing that words can have different meanings, and that the "social" meaning is not always actionable as the "legal" meaning might be.

 

It is not illegal to take a chance.

 

It can be illegal to gamble - or to offer gambling.

 

But since "gamble" can ALSO mean "to take a chance," the hard-of-thinking automatically conflate the two meanings and want to argue that taking a chance is legally regulated.  :facepalm:

 

Setting aside the whole issue of "it's not gambling if you get more in value than you paid" LEGAL argument.  

 

And, of course, bearing in mind "what is the 'value' of pixel gold and pixel tanks?"  :teethhappy:

Ah, the joy of language.  So much vagueness.  Guess that's why contracts and laws tend to be so long winded, so as to remove as much vagueness as possible. 







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