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TIL that cheating is ok, as long as you're smart about it.

cheating clan cup

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Casual_Boops #1 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 01:57

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Read the OP of this reddit thread, and specifically this conversation thread I've linked (from top down, if you're not familiar with how reddit is formatted). 

 

How is this considered ok?

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/eb457w/banned_player_on_na_helped_bulba_make_clan_cup/fb2skvb/?context=10000



JakeTheMystic #2 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 02:58

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Sounds like someone is a sore loser. Sure they say account selling is against tos but wg doesn't do hardly anything to prevent it.

 

Daki is surely a good player but he wasn't playing on a separate account to circumvent the ban and overall the individuals still won the fight, calling is somewhat important but it seems like he called pretty standard stuff. 

 

Bulba is back from the dead just until the campaign is over and they'll go back into hibernation for another 2 years. Let them have their chance at the spotlight.



ArmorStorm #3 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 03:02

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Look at any sport-Racing, football, baseball, whatever. 


Anything not specifically restricted is allowed by definition, and “creative” interpretation of the rules is actually part of many sports. 
 

This isn’t really different from baseball teams stealing signs, which is legal as long as no technology is used. 



Harvester_0f_Sorrow #4 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 04:02

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Was he playing on the enemy team? If he wasnt I do not see the problem. 

Mjolnirsson #5 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 04:12

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View PostCasual_Boops, on Dec 16 2019 - 00:57, said:

Read the OP of this reddit thread, and specifically this conversation thread I've linked (from top down, if you're not familiar with how reddit is formatted). 

 

How is this considered ok?

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/eb457w/banned_player_on_na_helped_bulba_make_clan_cup/fb2skvb/?context=10000

You're toxic. I watched Daki's stream today, where he explained both why some little WGNA power hungry person banned him, and how he didnt make one team win. Stop spreading drama and lies



CDNTankerjoe #6 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 04:34

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well he lost me as a follower, not that he will care but doesn't seem like he thinks that was cheating,

Mjolnirsson #7 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 04:35

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View PostCDNTankerjoe, on Dec 16 2019 - 03:34, said:

well he lost me as a follower, not that he will care but doesn't seem like he thinks that was cheating,

It wasnt. Good lord you people are so eager to try and make a case here



Casual_Boops #8 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 04:42

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View PostTheCobraChicken, on Dec 15 2019 - 21:12, said:

You're toxic. I watched Daki's stream today, where he explained both why some little WGNA power hungry person banned him, and how he didnt make one team win. Stop spreading drama and lies

 

View PostTheCobraChicken, on Dec 15 2019 - 21:35, said:

It wasnt. Good lord you people are so eager to try and make a case here

 

If you're taking a test and I help you by telling you the answers to the test, isn't that cheating? If we're playing chess and someone tells me all the moves to help me beat you, isn't that cheating? How is this hard to understand?



Mjolnirsson #9 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 04:51

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Were they taking a test? No, they werent. You are taking a weak example that someone already used, and fomenting it, without having a clue as to how silly it is.

 

A test, is not a game. A chess game where someone tells you what moves to make, is not cheating. Cheating requires the opposing element to already have a predetermined pattern. 



CDNTankerjoe #10 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 05:58

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and you are ranting about how this is so good, and and no wrong was done.

He got them off of tilt, no matter how he participated and he should not have been allowed to.

He influenced the game, no matter how much you say differently



_xDsmote___FakeNews #11 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 06:27

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"All players must be in the clan at the time of the battle in order to participate."

 

I don't think there's much ambiguity there.



Avalon304 #12 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 06:43

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View Post_xDsmote___FakeNews, on Dec 15 2019 - 22:27, said:

"All players must be in the clan at the time of the battle in order to participate."

 

I don't think there's much ambiguity there.

 

I mean that really depends on how you define "participate". As WG seems to define it, participation requires actually playing in the match... which it appears Daki didn't do. Since he wasnt actually in the match playing one of the accounts, and was simply watching a stream of the match its seems to be within the rules. Since its within the rules it isnt cheating.

 

At best you can make a case for it being morally wrong... but even that is a bit of a stretch.



Mjolnirsson #13 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 07:11

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View Post_xDsmote___FakeNews, on Dec 16 2019 - 05:27, said:

"All players must be in the clan at the time of the battle in order to participate."

 

I don't think there's much ambiguity there.

He literally, did not play. There is no way you can spin this, he was not playing a tank, in that match. There was no cheating, and as Avalon posted already, at best you can make a case for "morally acceptable", which then leads to, by whose standards?

I really dont think he made the difference in breaking a bad camp



_xDsmote___FakeNews #14 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 07:23

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View PostAvalon304, on Dec 15 2019 - 23:43, said:

I mean that really depends on how you define "participate". As WG seems to define it, participation requires actually playing in the match... which it appears Daki didn't do. Since he wasnt actually in the match playing one of the accounts, and was simply watching a stream of the match its seems to be within the rules. Since its within the rules it isnt cheating.

 

At best you can make a case for it being morally wrong... but even that is a bit of a stretch.

 

Under the most narrow definition of participation then you can argue that no rules were broken. However, you must adapt that very specific, very focused, and very narrow definition of participation in order to make that argument. I am also not making any argument about the morality or ethicality of the situation -- I am mostly concerned with the rules-perspective side of it. And, from that perspective, you must take the most narrow definition possible to absolve any culpability.



Casual_Boops #15 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 07:34

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View PostTheCobraChicken, on Dec 15 2019 - 21:51, said:

Were they taking a test? No, they werent. You are taking a weak example that someone already used, and fomenting it, without having a clue as to how silly it is.

 

A test, is not a game. A chess game where someone tells you what moves to make, is not cheating. Cheating requires the opposing element to already have a predetermined pattern. 

 

1) I'm the person on reddit, it was my example before and it's my example now, and it's legit.

 

2) The chess argument is completely legitimate. If two teams are playing against one another, the verbiage in the rules is intended to be written such that it's 1 clan versus 1 clan, with no outside influence at all. Whether Daki was physically playing or not is irrelevant, he was influencing the game. If a chess grandmaster whispers in my ear all the moves to beat my opponent (when the game was meant to be a 1v1) then that's cheating. 

 

 

How are you people not getting this? 



Avalon304 #16 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 08:22

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View Post_xDsmote___FakeNews, on Dec 15 2019 - 23:23, said:

 

Under the most narrow definition of participation then you can argue that no rules were broken. However, you must adapt that very specific, very focused, and very narrow definition of participation in order to make that argument. I am also not making any argument about the morality or ethicality of the situation -- I am mostly concerned with the rules-perspective side of it. And, from that perspective, you must take the most narrow definition possible to absolve any culpability.

 

I mean Im adapting the same view of "participation" as Wargaming seems to be adapting... that "participation" requires actively playing in the match, and not simply being an observer making suggestions. As far as me personally that is also how I would define participation in ANY game: Actively playing the game, making the moves, throwing the ball... whatever actions actually constitute playing the game. This has already been brought to the attention of the WG rep running the clan cup and even they say he didnt break the rules... so.... at this point its just pickpocket here and a bunch of others being salty over something that is, at worst, morally "wrong" by their standards. (Atleast that is what the Reddit post said).



Mjolnirsson #17 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 08:41

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View PostCasual_Boops, on Dec 16 2019 - 06:34, said:

 

1) I'm the person on reddit, it was my example before and it's my example now, and it's legit.

 

2) The chess argument is completely legitimate. If two teams are playing against one another, the verbiage in the rules is intended to be written such that it's 1 clan versus 1 clan, with no outside influence at all. Whether Daki was physically playing or not is irrelevant, he was influencing the game. If a chess grandmaster whispers in my ear all the moves to beat my opponent (when the game was meant to be a 1v1) then that's cheating. 

 

 

How are you people not getting this? 

Whether you keep whining or not, you arent influencing anyone. See how that works? Again, he was not cheating, he was NOT playing a tank in the match. Stop cri kid



VooDooKobra #18 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 08:46

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View PostTheCobraChicken, on Dec 15 2019 - 20:51, said:

Were they taking a test? No, they werent. You are taking a weak example that someone already used, and fomenting it, without having a clue as to how silly it is.

 

A test, is not a game. A chess game where someone tells you what moves to make, is not cheating. Cheating requires the opposing element to already have a predetermined pattern. 

with the chess argument, unless you are doing some kind of teaching.  that is cheating and if done in a tourny would get you banned 



Mjolnirsson #19 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 08:53

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View PostVooDooKobra, on Dec 16 2019 - 07:46, said:

with the chess argument, unless you are doing some kind of teaching.  that is cheating and if done in a tourny would get you banned 

Ok, then clearly, a chess tourney and a tanks tourney, are two very different things. OMG daki told a top clan to do stuff they were already doing, id better make a big deal on multiple forums and try to drag his name further through the mud because i dont like him, omg



_xDsmote___FakeNews #20 Posted Dec 16 2019 - 08:53

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View PostAvalon304, on Dec 16 2019 - 01:22, said:

I mean Im adapting the same view of "participation" as Wargaming seems to be adapting... that "participation" requires actively playing in the match, and not simply being an observer making suggestions. As far as me personally that is also how I would define participation in ANY game: Actively playing the game, making the moves, throwing the ball... whatever actions actually constitute playing the game. This has already been brought to the attention of the WG rep running the clan cup and even they say he didnt break the rules... so.... at this point its just pickpocket here and a bunch of others being salty over something that is, at worst, morally "wrong" by their standards. (Atleast that is what the Reddit post said).

 

I'll take the dictionary definition over anybody else's definition of the word "participate" any day of the week: "to take or have a part or share, as with others." Under your most narrow definition possible no rule was broken; however, quite literally any other interpretation holds that such participation occurred. 

 

The simple fact of the matter is that WarGaming's interpretation of their own rule does not match what the rule actually says. When you can have such a disconnect, that is emblematic of a problem, hence why so many people across so many discords, forum posts, and reddit threads have argued that these playoffs are flawed and illegitimate (and I say this as a member of a clan who finished in the Top 3). 

 

There will be very few people taking the results of these playoffs seriously, and this whole scandal is another contributor to the many factors that have led people to dismiss these playoffs altogether. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.







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