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Klaatu_Nicto #41 Posted Dec 18 2019 - 22:43

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View PostSuperJaws100, on Dec 18 2019 - 09:55, said:

 

The country as a whole experienced the hottest day on record. You're also missing the point that climate change is starting to cause the world to boil alive.

 

But keep on sipping that Fox News Kool-Aid, boomer. At this rate you'll still be alive to boil with us "millennials" who are apparently ruining the planet :P

 

Unless things change this is the future for millennial's after all us boomers, the generation during which the 'save our environment' movement began, are gone.

 

China has started ranking citizens with a creepy 'social credit' system — here's what you can do wrong, and the embarrassing, demeaning ways they can punish you

Like private credit scores, a person's social score can move up and down depending on their behavior. The exact methodology is a secret — but examples of infractions include bad driving, smoking in non-smoking zones, buying too many video games and posting fake news online.

 

Other punishable offenses include spending too long playing video games.

 

Punishments include:

 

1. Banning you from flying or getting the train.
2. Throttling your internet speeds.
3. Banning you — or your kids — from the best schools.
4. Stopping you getting the best jobs.
5. Keeping you out of the best hotels.
6. Getting your dog taken away.
7. Being publicly named as a bad citizen.

https://www.business...the-best-jobs-4

 

 



Klaatu_Nicto #42 Posted Dec 18 2019 - 22:57

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View Postpwcpilot, on Dec 18 2019 - 13:04, said:

Could you be any more stupid? Learn the difference between "the average temperature across the country" and  "the highest temperature reliably recorded in any location in Australia" Moron!

 

Could you be any more stupid?

 

I began that note with  "Here is a great example of how headlines don't match reality.  If you only read the headline or don't read the entire article you have been misled - Australia Experiences Hottest Day On Record"

 

 

 News organizations know that many people only read the headline and not the article. That headline will leave most people believing the hottest temperature ever recorded occurred which is not true.

 

 



Klaatu_Nicto #43 Posted Dec 18 2019 - 23:09

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View PostBadCorps, on Dec 18 2019 - 12:55, said:

Yes to the first question, everything is biased (except math). Why don't you do it? Find other sources, revise your post. Find concrete evidence. Most of climate change is just theory with some very persuading evidence. Yeah yeah yeah about the cooling period, but what about the hottest years on average. Those  are all within the past 20 years, or all the glaciers that are melting.

 

Why would sites that cater to the agricultural industry lie about cold events that destroy or damage crops?

 

Millions of years of evidence shows that nothing that has occurred with the climate since the end of the Little Ice Age is abnormal. The only thing normal about climate is it is always changing. According to the U.N.'s IPCC the climate 1000 years ago was warmer than today. I wonder how much warmer the climate would be today had the Little Ice Age not struck the earth.

 

It was not that long ago that advancing glaciers were threatening villages and cropland.  For the sake of argument let's say human activity ended the Little Ice Age. Is that a bad thing?

 

 

 

 



Klaatu_Nicto #44 Posted Dec 18 2019 - 23:48

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View PostBadCorps, on Dec 18 2019 - 12:57, said:

It's not scientific because science can prove it wrong, and so can math (the arch-nemesis of idiots).

 

I did some math late last year after reading an article about how much hotter summers have become. I've lived in the Seattle area all my life so I went with what are our two hottest months of the summer. This is what I posted on this forum over a year ago.

 

Block Quote

 

Data from NOAA for contiguous U.S. average temperature during the two hottest months of the year, July/August, going back to 1895 in degrees/F. I chose to compare the last five year average to a five year average in the 1930s, the long term mean and the hottest July/August.
 

1934-1938----------74.62
2014-2018----------73.79
1895-2018 mean--73.01  
Hottest--1936------75.70

 

https://www.ncdc.noa...erType=binomial

 

 

The Great North American Heat Wave of July 1936
Over 12,000 dead in the U.S. - 600 dead in Ontario. Temperatures over 120 degrees recorded.

 

 

 

 



Sgt_King_Gunner #45 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 00:36

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View PostBadCorps, on Dec 18 2019 - 21:19, said:

You reused several sites multiple times, electroverse, freshplaza, etc...

You linked only one site to each story, which could be considered much more biased. It's not that hard to find one thing to support your claim. Finding four or five is much harder, and considering the volume of your "sample" here that'd be difficult but possible.

 

If you really want approval, follow the scientific method and PROVE your claim.


Denialists argue by links.  



iadreamer #46 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 02:38

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View PostBadCorps, on Dec 18 2019 - 12:46, said:

Citing one article that supports your own belief is confirmation bias, and granted I do it as well on some occasions. If you were to cite several articles where information overlapped despite differing viewpoints, it'd be more credible.

I could write my own article right now that could make all sorts of statements that wouldn't need to be true. If I cited that article with opinions that are directly related to those statements, that I made, doesn't make it true.


But, YOUR data is true?  Well, COME ON dude, go ahead and write and post your TRUE DATA!  One simple post should work, as your data will be irrefutable!  Won't it prove all these idiots wrong?  Even if they are unconvinced, won't the rest of the population benefit from your knowledge?

 

Then again, if the only answer to a challenge is that people won't believe it, then maybe no true data exists at all.


Edited by iadreamer, Dec 19 2019 - 02:45.


Klaatu_Nicto #47 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 02:56

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View PostKlaatu_Nicto, on Dec 18 2019 - 09:43, said:

Here is a great example of how headlines don't match reality.  If you only read the headline or don't read the entire article you have been misled.

 

It’s Sizzling: Australia Experiences Hottest Day On Record


The Australian Bureau of Meteorology said the average temperature across the country of 40.9 degrees Celsius (105 Fahrenheit) Tuesday beat the record of 40.3 Celsius (104 Fahrenheit) from Jan. 7, 2013.

 

On Wednesday temperatures soared to 47.7 Celsius (118 Fahrenheit) in Birdsville, Queensland, 46.9 Celsius (116 Fahrenheit) in Mandora, Western Australia and similar levels in southern and central Australia.

 

The highest temperature reliably recorded in any location in Australia was 50.7 Celsius (123 Fahrenheit) in January 1960.

 

https://apnews.com/7...081e9ca56400964

 

In the AP article it says: "The Australian Bureau of Meteorology said the average temperature across the country of 40.9 degrees Celsius (105 Fahrenheit) Tuesday beat the record of 40.3 Celsius (104 Fahrenheit) from Jan. 7, 2013."

 

Have you asked yourself 'Is that the average high temperature or the average temperature?' There is a big difference between the two. An average high temperature is an average of high temperatures whereas an average temperature is the average between the daily high temp and the daily low temp.  

 

This is important to understand because with average temperature most of the warming that has increased the average temp has occurred at night which has led more than a few scientists to attribute the warming to the urban heat island effect. More than a few scientists also believe the urban heat island effect is responsible for most of the warming in the daytime.

 

The following videos explain the urban heat island effect as well as showing what has been occurring with temperature records.

 

 


Edited by Klaatu_Nicto, Dec 19 2019 - 02:58.


Klaatu_Nicto #48 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 03:21

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View Posttod914, on Dec 18 2019 - 13:09, said:

 

There's only two explanations for these weather anomalies.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Spoiler

 



Helpless #49 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 03:23

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View PostKlaatu_Nicto, on Dec 18 2019 - 17:43, said:

Here is a great example of how headlines don't match reality.  If you only read the headline or don't read the entire article you have been misled.

 

It’s Sizzling: Australia Experiences Hottest Day On Record


The Australian Bureau of Meteorology said the average temperature across the country of 40.9 degrees Celsius (105 Fahrenheit) Tuesday beat the record of 40.3 Celsius (104 Fahrenheit) from Jan. 7, 2013.

 

On Wednesday temperatures soared to 47.7 Celsius (118 Fahrenheit) in Birdsville, Queensland, 46.9 Celsius (116 Fahrenheit) in Mandora, Western Australia and similar levels in southern and central Australia.

 

The highest temperature reliably recorded in any location in Australia was 50.7 Celsius (123 Fahrenheit) in January 1960.

 

https://apnews.com/7...081e9ca56400964

says the guy who only posts fake news from tony heller and other fake heartland institute paid climate change denier videos.......


Edited by Helpless, Dec 19 2019 - 03:25.


BadCorps #50 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 15:17

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View Postiadreamer, on Dec 18 2019 - 19:38, said:


But, YOUR data is true?  Well, COME ON dude, go ahead and write and post your TRUE DATA!  One simple post should work, as your data will be irrefutable!  Won't it prove all these idiots wrong?  Even if they are unconvinced, won't the rest of the population benefit from your knowledge?

 

Then again, if the only answer to a challenge is that people won't believe it, then maybe no true data exists at all.

All data can be rebutted. As long as there is something that opposes it, the opposition will flock to it and proclaim it as truth because it aligns with what they want. The Koch Brother(s)* preached that climate change wasn't real, and that public transportation is a waste of money. They made up some numbers and proclaimed it like the word of God. Despite that many economic, management, and public transportation professionals say that public transportation is both cheaper and better for the environment, and extremely necessary.

The Koch Brother(s)* did this why? Because they sell oil, which is processed into petrol for cars to use. They quite literally needed cars to stay on the road to thrive.

 

Pretty sure there's some morons out there that think 2 + 2 = 5, and their minds won't be swayed.

The dumb[edited] idea that 60s is not 1 minute because microwaves aren't calculators (because if you put 60s in twice, most microwaves display 1:20)

The earth is flat.

 

All of these ideas have "evidence", but does the correct (based on common sense, math, and physics which is just math but with more steps) data dissuade those people from believing it? I'm very sure there is "irrefutable" evidence that 60s + 60s = 2 minutes, but people will cling to their belief because they think it's right. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, or has data that may be irrefutable. 

 

Climate change is a large field and there is a lot of variables we don't know. Medieval times weren't the times of super precise measurements, we can only estimate the temperature of the "Little Ice Age", and measuring the ENTIRE ATMOSPHERE is a daunting task. Most tests of atmospheric content are done with samples, not a population (the whole atmosphere) and can only be estimated based on sample size. There is a lot of room for error, but the acceptance of deviation is small. 

Based on the science and numbers, climate change impacted by human involvement is completely possible, but there aren't any hard figures yet. Glaciers didn't melt like they do now. Iceland lost an entire glacier due to an increase in temperature, and it's likely never coming back.There is no irrefutable proof, if you need something go watch Bill Nye Saves the World.

 

*NOTE: There is only one remaining Koch brother.



BadCorps #51 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 15:28

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BadCorps #52 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 15:36

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View PostKlaatu_Nicto, on Dec 18 2019 - 15:43, said:

 

Unless things change this is the future for millennial's after all us boomers, the generation during which the 'save our environment' movement began, are gone.

 

China has started ranking citizens with a creepy 'social credit' system — here's what you can do wrong, and the embarrassing, demeaning ways they can punish you

Like private credit scores, a person's social score can move up and down depending on their behavior. The exact methodology is a secret — but examples of infractions include bad driving, smoking in non-smoking zones, buying too many video games and posting fake news online.

 

Other punishable offenses include spending too long playing video games.

 

Punishments include:

 

1. Banning you from flying or getting the train.
2. Throttling your internet speeds.
3. Banning you — or your kids — from the best schools.
4. Stopping you getting the best jobs.
5. Keeping you out of the best hotels.
6. Getting your dog taken away.
7. Being publicly named as a bad citizen.

https://www.business...the-best-jobs-4

 

 

1. China has done worse.

2. China is not a democracy.

3. China is not a democracy.

4. I think you'd love that, boomer. Punishing people who did something wrong.

5. It's a fear tactic, and possibly beneficial to health to not play video games more than 2 hours a day.

6. It's better than "you smoke weed, federal prison for a year and now you're a felon. Good luck getting a job, loans, or anything"

7. Apart from the secrecy, it SEEMS like a good idea. Reward people for doing good things and punish those who are not.

8. Honestly, I'd love if the government ruined someone's "social credit" for posting fake information. That'd make the world a much better place.

9. And most importantly

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK BOOMER


Edited by BadCorps, Dec 19 2019 - 15:37.


BadCorps #53 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 15:39

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View PostSgt_King_Gunner, on Dec 18 2019 - 17:36, said:


Denialists argue by links.  

What would you expect them to do? 

Read a book?



Dain_Ironfoot_ #54 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 15:43

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I thought climate change already killed everyone 10 years ago?  Oh no... I guess we gotta live through that all over again.  Better give all our money and freedom over to the liberals so they can save us and control our lives since we're all too naive to make our own decisions.  

Sgt_King_Gunner #55 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 19:26

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View PostBadCorps, on Dec 19 2019 - 15:39, said:

What would you expect them to do? 

Read a book?

Nope.  Been dealing with denialists of one sort or another for about 15 years.  "research" means reading websites they agree with, and finding reasons to discount actual science.



Sgt_King_Gunner #56 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 19:41

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View PostDain_Ironfoot_, on Dec 19 2019 - 15:43, said:

I thought climate change already killed everyone 10 years ago? Oh no... I guess we gotta live through that all over again. Better give all our money and freedom over to the liberals so they can save us and control our lives since we're all too naive to make our own decisions.

actually, warming ended about 10 years ago and we are in a cooling trend.


That was the story in the 1990's.  I recall Rush Limbaugh promoting the idea that warming was due to sun spot activity and the cycle would change by 2010.  He's now saying it's sunspot activity and it will end in 2030.

 

Goalpost shifting.  And handwaving nonsense in replace of science.  Classic denialism.



Dain_Ironfoot_ #57 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 20:04

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View PostSgt_King_Gunner, on Dec 19 2019 - 13:41, said:

actually, warming ended about 10 years ago and we are in a cooling trend.


That was the story in the 1990's.  I recall Rush Limbaugh promoting the idea that warming was due to sun spot activity and the cycle would change by 2010.  He's now saying it's sunspot activity and it will end in 2030.

 

Goalpost shifting.  And handwaving nonsense in replace of science.  Classic denialism.

 

Nah... I think most skeptics and opposing research doesn't deny that there is some change... they just don't agree on certain details or that it is as an extreme situation as some make it seem.  I'm not saying all "promoters" of climate change have ill intentions, but many are definitely inflating it and mainly using it as a political battering ram and for personal gain.  Hence my sarcastic post above.


Edited by Dain_Ironfoot_, Dec 19 2019 - 20:09.


Klaatu_Nicto #58 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 21:02

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Spatio -Temporal Variations In Urban Heat Island And Its Interaction With Heat Wave


Most of the urban localities are facing the effects of Urban Heat Island (UHI) and extreme heat wave (HW) events. It is expected that these HW events are likely to be intensified by the effect of UHI in the future. As these events project to increase in both severity and frequency therefore, it is crucial to assess the intensity of UHI and examine the relationship between HW and UHI....During the first phase (1998–2001), the maximum Urban Heat Island Intensity (UHII) for night time in summer was 1.9 °C, while during the second phase (2012–2016), it increased by 0.6 °C.


Despite the fact that both phases have shown similar pattern for seasonal UHII, urban-rural temperature difference was found to be significant in summer especially in the night time. Temporal distribution of UHII for winter shows that average intensity of UHI during daytime varies between 0.1 °C and 3.2 °C, considering the overall time duration.


https://www.scienced...364682618304012


Global Warming Theory in a Nutshell


Every scientific theory involves assumptions. Global warming theory starts with the assumption that the Earth naturally maintains a constant average temperature, which is the result of a balance between (1) the amount of sunlight the Earth absorbs, and (2) the amount of emitted infrared (“IR” radiation that the Earth continuously emits to outer space.


Climate models are “tuned” to not produce natural climate change. If a 100-year run of the model produces change, the model is adjusted to removed the “drift”. The models do not produce global energy balance from “first physical principles”, because none of the processes controlling that balance are known to sufficient accuracy. Instead, the models are “fudged” to produce energy balance, based upon the modelers’ assumption of no natural climate change. Then, the models are used as “proof” that only increasing CO2 has caused recent warming.


This is circular reasoning.


http://www.drroyspen...al-warming-101/


The Solar Wind and Climate: Evaluating the Influence of the Solar Wind on Temperature and Teleconnection Patterns Using Correlation Maps


The influence of the solar wind on climate should be considered much stronger than conventionally believed. Once its mechanism is elucidated and incorporated in to climate models, it will greatly contribute to policy development. In other words, the effectiveness of climate models is greatly reduced when the influence of the sun (and moon) is not adequately represented.


https://arxiv.org/ft.../1807.03976.pdf

 

 

Arctic Cold Surge Smashes Over 400 Mid-November Records in the Plains, Midwest, South and East


Culling through National Weather Service record statements, over 400 daily mid-November cold records, including record lows and record-cold high temperatures, were tied or set across the nation from Veterans Day through Thursday, Nov. 14.


https://weather.com/...west-south-east

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Klaatu_Nicto, Dec 19 2019 - 21:04.


Klaatu_Nicto #59 Posted Dec 19 2019 - 23:44

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Some of the points made in the following interview with Freeman Dyson, one of America's greatest scientists.


1. Increase in CO2 in the atmosphere is enormously beneficial to food production, biodiversity and preservation of species. It would be crazy to try to reduce CO2.   


2. Measuring average global temperature is a poorly defined thing.


3. The evidence is clear. Solar activity has an effect on climate.

 

 

Freeman Dyson Takes On The Climate Establishment


Many climate scientists were especially distressed that the Times gave his views such prominence


Freeman Dyson: I simply find that a lot of these claims that experts are making are absurd. Not that I know better, but I know a few things. My objections to the global warming propaganda are not so much over the technical facts, about which I do not know much, but it’s rather against the way those people behave and the kind of intolerance to criticism that a lot of them have.


https://web.archive....ure.msp?id=2151

 

If you have the truth on your side you don't need to be intolerant to criticism. If you have the truth on your side you don't need to subvert the peer review process.

 

 "I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow — even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!" - Phil Jones,  East Anglia Climatic Research Unit

 

 



Klaatu_Nicto #60 Posted Dec 20 2019 - 00:13

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View PostSgt_King_Gunner, on Dec 19 2019 - 10:41, said:

actually, warming ended about 10 years ago and we are in a cooling trend.


That was the story in the 1990's.  I recall Rush Limbaugh promoting the idea that warming was due to sun spot activity and the cycle would change by 2010.  He's now saying it's sunspot activity and it will end in 2030.

 

Goalpost shifting.  And handwaving nonsense in replace of science.  Classic denialism.

 

 

ryxcFJ0.png

 

Greater-than-expected solar activity heated the outer layers of Earth's atmosphere and increased drag on Skylab. By late 1977, NORAD also forecast a reentry in mid-1979; a National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) scientist criticized NASA for using an inaccurate model for the second most-intense sunspot cycle in a century, and for ignoring NOAA predictions published in 1976.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylab

 

2013 - Sun's Current Solar Activity Cycle Is Weakest in a Century

https://www.space.co...ce-weather.html

 

As 2018 comes to an end, the Thermosphere Climate Index is on the verge of setting a Space Age record for Cold. “We’re not there quite yet,” says Mlynczak, “but it could happen in a matter of months.”
https://spaceweather...-solar-minimum/

 

2019 - The forecast for the next solar cycle says it will be the weakest of the last 200 years. The maximum of this next cycle – measured in terms of sunspot number, a standard measure of solar activity level – could be 30 to 50% lower than the most recent one. The results show that the next cycle will start in 2020 and reach its maximum in 2025.
https://www.nasa.gov...for-exploration

 

Italian forecasters think solar minimum is causing global cooling. The climate could be at a really crucial crossroads over the next few years. Big changes seem to be waiting for us, and we could all be witnesses to something very unusual.
https://www.ilmeteo....e-gelo-tendenza

 

China Scientists Warn Of Global Cooling Trick Up Nature’s Sleeve. "Driving forces include the sun, the atmosphere, and its interaction with the ocean. We have detected no evidence of human influence."
https://www.scmp.com...-natures-sleeve

 

Global Warming? An Israeli Astrophysicist Provides Alternative View That Is Not Easy To Reject. “Climate change has existed forever and is unlikely to go away. But CO2 emissions don’t play the major role. Periodic solar activity does.”
https://www.thegwpf....nt-you-to-read/

 

Reconstruction of sunspot activity, cold and warm events, and drought and flood events in the Central Plain of China during the Northern Song Dynasty using historical documents: Frequency analysis indicates that cooling, warming, drought and extreme flood events show a close relationship to sunspot activity.
https://www.scienced...0618219307311#!

 

Shrinkage of East Asia Winter Monsoon Associated With Increased ENSO Events Since the Mid‐Holocene: These results imply that the climate transition in the mid‐Holocene is caused by the change of variations in solar activity and amplified by ocean circulation El Niño‐Southern Oscillation
https://agupubs.onli...29/2018JD030148

 

Are precipitation concentration and intensity changing in Bangladesh overtimes? Analysis of the possible causes of changes in precipitation systems: Sunspot is the most important factor influencing the precipitation systems using the RF model.
https://www.scienced...048969719330980

 

Magnetism Signals in a Stalagmite From Southern China and Reconstruction of Paleorainfall During the Interglacial‐Glacial Transition: Solar activity may play an important role in precipitation variations in southern China
https://agupubs.onli...29/2019GL082204

 

Winter Monsoons Became Stronger During Geomagnetic Reversal: New evidence suggests that high-energy particles from space known as galactic cosmic rays affect the Earth’s climate by increasing cloud cover, causing an “umbrella effect”. This new discovery about winter monsoons provides further proof that the climate changes are caused by the cloud umbrella effect.
http://www.kobe-u.ac...9_07_03_01.html

 






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