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Do Away with Draws


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2dPanzer #1 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 15:41

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I will again state that a draw impacts your win percentage just like a loss.  So lets do away with them.  WOT already has the means to do this.  Use the Fronlines method of extending the match to regular matches.  Start with a 5min extension-this should allow one side to kill the other or cap the other.  Easy to do, so why not try it.  Im sure the members who have fought hard only to have time run out before they could kill the remaining tanks and feel like they were cheated!  This would be an easy fix.  Show you support us WOT!

Warhead_Legend_Jerkov #2 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 15:47

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Or just whichever side has more tanks left (i.e. the scoreboard at the top of the screen) is the tie breaker. You kill all or cap for the win, but the final score will determine a victor if neither of the primary win conditions are met. This keeps players from resetting cap and hiding for the draw under the condition they would rather force a draw than have an outright loss.

rockbutcher #3 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 16:10

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This would lead to some very long games where you have two arty and one heavy td on each team, each waiting for the other to show himself.  It might help in 50% of the draws.

HOTA_CHATON #4 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 16:14

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Before we do this, we need to get a permanently fixed match maker that knows how to properly balance teams, instead of what we have now.  

WaywardChild #5 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 16:30

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Can't, some matches would never end......

the_dude_76 #6 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 16:32

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View Post2dPanzer, on Dec 27 2019 - 08:41, said:

.  Im sure the members who have fought hard only to have time run out before they could kill the remaining tanks and feel like they were cheated!  

 

 Well then those players shouldn't have spent 12 of the 15 minutes camping the red line waiting for something to shoot at. No one needs to be rewarded for "fighting hard" after the battle is mostly over. The VAST majority of the time the clock expires all you've got left on either team is the passive players who obviously either weren't watching the clock or just don't care about it.

 

Block Quote

  Start with a 5min extension-this should allow one side to kill the other or cap the other. 

 

And why should those of us who were active have to wait that extra time to get our tanks back?? Sorry but I don't want to wait an extra 5-30 minutes as two jack wads camp their own cap circles waiting for the other guy to flinch first.

 

View PostDr_Jerkov, on Dec 27 2019 - 08:47, said:

This keeps players from resetting cap and hiding for the draw under the condition they would rather force a draw than have an outright loss.

 

And why do we care how other players choose to play the game??

 

 



Waarheid #7 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 16:36

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I'd prefer if WG did away with whining. 

StoneTitan #8 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 16:57

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View Postrockbutcher, on Dec 27 2019 - 10:10, said:

This would lead to some very long games where you have two arty and one heavy td on each team, each waiting for the other to show himself.  It might help in 50% of the draws.

 

That's why there is also a timer.:facepalm:  Anyway, yes, please do away with draws; I had one last night.  Use a couple other stats to determine winner and if it's still a draw then randomly award a winner........just anything except a draw.:ohmy:



Insanefriend #9 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 17:12

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So we need to fix something that only effects about 1% of matches if not less then that?  Doesn’t seem like a good use of company resources, as there are bigger thing that effect more battles.

Cutthroatlemur #10 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 17:14

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No, I disagree for the following reasons.

Draws are, and have been, an important component of player stats since the game's inception.  Removing Draws would invalidate years of stats  - new players would have substantially higher win rates than longtime players.

Draws are an excellent punishment for passive gameplay.  If not one is willing to fight for a win then they all deserve to lose IMHO.

As has been pointed out in earlier replies, removing Draws could lead to never-ending games where two trolls in arty sit in opposite corners of the map.  Everyone else who already died would have their tanks locked for Serb-knows-how-long.

 



nuclearguy931 #11 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 17:17

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If neither team meets the conditions required for a win then neither team deserves the win, the match ends in a draw, no need to change the game now.

 

 



AllieOop2 #12 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 17:51

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View Post2dPanzer, on Dec 27 2019 - 15:41, said:

I will again state that a draw impacts your win percentage just like a loss. 

Yes remove draws make them a loss. All above board now.

Those 5 or 6 draws a month are REALLY dragging my win percentage down. I JUST HATE IT!


Edited by AllieOop2, Dec 27 2019 - 17:52.


Altwar #13 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 18:29

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View Postnuclearguy931, on Dec 27 2019 - 08:17, said:

If neither team meets the conditions required for a win then neither team deserves the win, the match ends in a draw, no need to change the game now.

 

Amazing how simple and clear the concept is.



Mikosah #14 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 18:32

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Alternatively, just make it the rule that when the time expires, whichever side has more ongoing cap points wins. In the event that neither side is capturing when time expires, whichever side with most remaining tanks wins. In the event that time expires and neither side is capping and both have the same number of tanks alive, then let it be a draw. (or perhaps then, award the win to whichever side has more hit points remaining)

 

As of the issue that draws count as losses in the WR average, there's an easy way to fix that- and that's just to not count draws in the WR average at all. Similarly, they could do the same with 'heroic resistance' losses. 



nuclearguy931 #15 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 18:46

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View PostMikosah, on Dec 27 2019 - 11:32, said:

Alternatively, just make it the rule that when the time expires, whichever side has more ongoing cap points wins. In the event that neither side is capturing when time expires, whichever side with most remaining tanks wins. In the event that time expires and neither side is capping and both have the same number of tanks alive, then let it be a draw. (or perhaps then, award the win to whichever side has more hit points remaining)

 

As of the issue that draws count as losses in the WR average, there's an easy way to fix that- and that's just to not count draws in the WR average at all. Similarly, they could do the same with 'heroic resistance' losses. 


Throw a scenario at you based you your idea of awarding a win. Keep in mind, I have seen less than 1% of the games I've played where both teams have the equal hit points to start.

 

Time runs out, tanks left are 4-1, the team with 4 tanks left has a combined 1,400 hit points, the team with 1 team left has a full health Maus. An argument can be made that the Maus had the better game, who gets the win?

 

Bottom line, neither team met the criteria for the win so neither team deserves the win, get rid of the tie and award both teams with a loss. It would be only fair as neither achieved set goals.

 

There is no valid reason to be changing the way wins, losses or draws are currently handled.



Omega_Weapon #16 Posted Dec 27 2019 - 19:28

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Easiest fix for draws is to simply not count them in win percentage. Draws are neither a win or a loss, so win percentage should only be calculated with games that were an actual win or an actual loss.

AZandEL #17 Posted Jan 05 2020 - 20:21

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View PostDr_Jerkov, on Dec 27 2019 - 14:47, said:

Or just whichever side has more tanks left (i.e. the scoreboard at the top of the screen) is the tie breaker. You kill all or cap for the win, but the final score will determine a victor if neither of the primary win conditions are met. This keeps players from resetting cap and hiding for the draw under the condition they would rather force a draw than have an outright loss.


+ this



BottomFeedingBOTgarbage #18 Posted Jan 05 2020 - 21:03

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Block Quote

Do Away with Draws 

 

No.


When I'm the last man standing vs impossible odds of capping or killing, there is just one tool left to use ...


and that's forcing them to share the loss.


I may not be able to win it outright, but I can deny them an outright win ...


That's something they deserve when they're stupid ... :sceptic:

 


Edited by BottomFeedingBOTgarbage, Jan 05 2020 - 21:15.


CaptainBussey #19 Posted Jan 06 2020 - 21:58

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View PostDr_Jerkov, on Dec 27 2019 - 08:47, said:

Or just whichever side has more tanks left (i.e. the scoreboard at the top of the screen) is the tie breaker. You kill all or cap for the win, but the final score will determine a victor if neither of the primary win conditions are met. This keeps players from resetting cap and hiding for the draw under the condition they would rather force a draw than have an outright loss.

View Postnuclearguy931, on Dec 27 2019 - 11:46, said:


Throw a scenario at you based you your idea of awarding a win. Keep in mind, I have seen less than 1% of the games I've played where both teams have the equal hit points to start.

 

Time runs out, tanks left are 4-1, the team with 4 tanks left has a combined 1,400 hit points, the team with 1 team left has a full health Maus. An argument can be made that the Maus had the better game, who gets the win?

 

Bottom line, neither team met the criteria for the win so neither team deserves the win, get rid of the tie and award both teams with a loss. It would be only fair as neither achieved set goals.

 

There is no valid reason to be changing the way wins, losses or draws are currently handled.

 

 

I hate draws, they promote bad sportsmanship and encourage players to hide and settle, which is bull [edited].

 

These two responses can be used to develop a great way to do away with draws.

 

After the regular time has expired and there is no winner, have a short condensed overtime, Then at the end of the overtime if both teams still have tanks the team with the most points left wins.

 

View PostCutthroatlemur, on Dec 27 2019 - 10:14, said:

No, I disagree for the following reasons.

Draws are, and have been, an important component of player stats since the game's inception.  Removing Draws would invalidate years of stats  - new players would have substantially higher win rates than longtime players.

Draws are an excellent punishment for passive gameplay.  If not one is willing to fight for a win then they all deserve to lose IMHO.

As has been pointed out in earlier replies, removing Draws could lead to never-ending games where two trolls in arty sit in opposite corners of the map.  Everyone else who already died would have their tanks locked for Serb-knows-how-long.

 

 

 

No offense, and everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I despise this mentality right here. 

 

It promotes exactly what I talked about above.

 

The idea that you intentionally are going to NOT try to win the game just rubs me the wrong way.

 

I would much rather see my last team member go down in a blaze of glory than to duck and hide to force a draw.

 

Again my opinion, but this isn't much better if any than watching SPGs drown themselves at the end of a match. 

 


Edited by CaptainBussey, Jan 06 2020 - 21:59.





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