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Wheeled tanks are broken.


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Belicia #41 Posted Jan 13 2020 - 11:30

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View PostAltwar, on Jan 13 2020 - 18:19, said:

 

 I wonder if there is any footage anywhere that shows how a wheeled vehicle stands up to a tank shell.  Not well I'm thinking and yet they seem to do amazingly well in that regard within this game.

 

^This. QFT.

 

Direct hit from my 8-inch HE arty shell ... zero damage and nothing more than a wobbly tire for the still-moving-fast EBR. Those game mechanics are broken AF.



KRZYBooP #42 Posted Jan 13 2020 - 17:13

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View PostAlmighty_Johnson, on Jan 10 2020 - 09:52, said:

I think that's the biggest perceived problem with the wheelies (other than their insane speed even when half the tires are shot off).

When they get hit, 50% of the hit area is wheel only.  There's a gigantic gap behind those tires where there is no hull.  You must aim higher on them to cause damage.  If WG would drop the hull a bit behind the wheels, they'd be worlds easier to damage.

Aside from that, they are basically the only vehicle in the game that can't be "tracked" and that's also a problem.  Every non wheeled vehicle get's nailed to the spot when they take a damaging shot to the suspension.  These things should be no different.  I know realism is out the window in this game, but at some point we have to say, "Seriously?"  How are we to assume the crew repairs a damaged tire while the vehicle is still moving at 50 kph?

So are they actually broken?  Not really, and certainly not as badly as they could be.  Do they need fixing?  Without a doubt.  No other class of vehicles has so drastically changed the meta than these things.

 

The Wheeled Tanks can be "Tracked." It doesn't happen very often due to the fact that all wheels have to be broken to do so. Repairs on the crew coupled with two repair kits is an option that most Wheel tanks go for. For every damaged wheel though, they lose some maneuverability as well as some speed. 

 

My personal opinion is that WG should address the zero damage rounds that hit the Tires take as if they were still tracks. If this was applied to an ELC even 90 there would be no other light tank to play in that tier. 

 

View PostBelicia, on Jan 13 2020 - 04:30, said:

 

^This. QFT.

 

Direct hit from my 8-inch HE arty shell ... zero damage and nothing more than a wobbly tire for the still-moving-fast EBR. Those game mechanics are broken AF.

 

Here you go
LINK


Edited by KRZYBooP, Jan 13 2020 - 17:34.


Silvers_ #43 Posted Jan 13 2020 - 18:43

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Jan 10 2020 - 09:13, said:

Wheelies are high skill cap, lots of players do poorly in them.  They do need to be like balanced, however.  That is, if a team has any number of wheelies, they get an equal amount in the opposing team.  It's too easy to break balance only one team getting one.  They also need the enhanced aim turned off.   Bingo, balanced. 

 

Arty is still a larger throrn in the side of the playerbase, I'd wager. 

Ah but the autoaim mod allows you to lock onto tanks easier than the normal lock on and is legal and does nearly the same thing so meh. As long as the mod doesn't' "snap" onto the nearest target or behind buildings/mountains etc like the Wheelies then it's legal. the biggest issue is people just not aiming/leading shots and I know everyone is like I know how to aim but looking at stats/hit ratios says otherwise.

And the OP not reading because their confirmation bias says that the truth is a lie just shows how bad they are.



Plays_With_Matches #44 Posted Jan 13 2020 - 18:55

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Jan 13 2020 - 11:13, said:

 

The Wheeled Tanks can be "Tracked." It doesn't happen very often due to the fact that all wheels have to be broken to do so. Repairs on the crew coupled with two repair kits is an option that most Wheel tanks go for. For every damaged wheel though, they lose some maneuverability as well as some speed. 

 

My personal opinion is that WG should address the zero damage rounds that hit the Tires take as if they were still tracks. If this was applied to an ELC even 90 there would be no other light tank to play in that tier. 

 

 

Here you go
LINK

 

That GIF is awesome....

 

So to effectively "track" a wheelie one would have to shoot out all the wheels on one side? or both? Also I do have a bit of an issue with the assistance damage, is it possible to get tracking assistance against a wheeled tank?

 



Kenshin2kx #45 Posted Jan 13 2020 - 18:57

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View PostBelicia, on Jan 13 2020 - 00:30, said:

 

^This. QFT.

 

Direct hit from my 8-inch HE arty shell ... zero damage and nothing more than a wobbly tire for the still-moving-fast EBR. Those game mechanics are broken AF.

 

I'm not a tank designer, but I do know a bit about automotive engineering ... and I would also question just how robust the drivetrain and in particular, wheeled segment of such vehicles are when hit by cannon fire in Wot.  

 

I would think that a direct hit would result in quite a bit more actual damage and or an instant kill (depending on hit location on the main body or turrent) ... Granted, the wheel based drive train is upgraded/up armored when compared to a civilian design ... very little can be done to 'harden' the pneumatic rubber tires and hubs in terms of a direct hit from say a high velocity 75 mm (and up) tank armament.  If physics were to actually play out ... a direct hit to say the hub area of the wheel with armor piercing, should almost certainly /damage if not outright destroy the bearing hub and axel ... with the potential of going further into the vehicle itself ... now if the shell hit the tire itself (barring an advanced self repairing design ... should literally blow off the tire).  

 

Direct hit = Wobbly tire with little slowdown in speed = :D  Yes, borked.

 

... almost forgot, the basic vulnerability of a 4 wheeled vehicle in combat ... solidy hit just one wheel and you likely should have severely limited the opponents mobility potential.  

 

... and if nothing else ... how about a crash or potential for flipping with a catastrophic wheel hit (think tire blowout while at top speed)?


Edited by Kenshin2kx, Jan 13 2020 - 19:17.


KRZYBooP #46 Posted Jan 13 2020 - 20:06

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View PostPlays_With_Matches, on Jan 13 2020 - 11:55, said:

 

That GIF is awesome....

 

So to effectively "track" a wheelie one would have to shoot out all the wheels on one side? or both? Also I do have a bit of an issue with the assistance damage, is it possible to get tracking assistance against a wheeled tank?

 

 

All wheels on one side..... Which is even more difficult to do considering the speed. All the tanks on a team have to make that wheeled tank a priority target. Light Tanks are kinda a balance to the Wheeled tanks since they can kinda keep up and have better view range, but still. 

 

 

View PostKenshin2kx, on Jan 13 2020 - 11:57, said:

 

I'm not a tank designer, but I do know a bit about automotive engineering ... and I would also question just how robust the drivetrain and in particular, wheeled segment of such vehicles are when hit by cannon fire in Wot.  

 

I would think that a direct hit would result in quite a bit more actual damage and or an instant kill (depending on hit location on the main body or turrent) ... Granted, the wheel based drive train is upgraded/up armored when compared to a civilian design ... very little can be done to 'harden' the pneumatic rubber tires and hubs in terms of a direct hit from say a high velocity 75 mm (and up) tank armament.  If physics were to actually play out ... a direct hit to say the hub area of the wheel with armor piercing, should almost certainly /damage if not outright destroy the bearing hub and axel ... with the potential of going further into the vehicle itself ... now if the shell hit the tire itself (barring an advanced self repairing design ... should literally blow off the tire).  

 

Direct hit = Wobbly tire with little slowdown in speed = :D  Yes, borked.

 

... almost forgot, the basic vulnerability of a 4 wheeled vehicle in combat ... solidy hit just one wheel and you likely should have severely limited the opponents mobility potential.  

 

... and if nothing else ... how about a crash or potential for flipping with a catastrophic wheel hit (think tire blowout while at top speed)?

 

The way the Wheeled tanks are designed and implemented from what I could speculate is that they are using internal game assets for a light tank and just reskinning them to make new tanks and adding some features.

 

This means that all the rules considering track damage is applied too each wheel individually. If you hit a tire its exactly like shooting one of the track wheels on a tank, it doesn't take HP away from the tank (unless it pens the wheel) but does take Module damage that can end up breaking that one tire. 



Tod_kommt #47 Posted Jan 13 2020 - 22:09

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View PostBelicia, on Jan 10 2020 - 06:18, said:

Wheeled vehicles need to go. They are broken. Seriously broken. And we all know it.

 

Even the [edited]-kissing WoT commentators on YouTube, who are handed a mountain of free crap by their WG overlords, agree - wheeled tanks have ruined World of Tanks.

 

Frankly, I am at a loss to comprehend why Wargaming are happy for this farcical development to continue.

 

The cynical side of me suspects that Wargaming are making $$$ out of wheeled vehicles. But, how is making the general player-base detest the current state of the game good for business?

 

 

Belicia is spot ON this issue. If I could know a wheelie was loading in to a match I would bail quick fast and in a hurry. WOT makes money on wheelies so the only way to solve this issue is to make them less of a money grab for WOT.  Good luck with that!  Warn players when wheelies are loading and let see what a wheelie only match would make money wise.

Anyways that is my opinion. Yes I am a modestly bad player and yes I have had 2 wheelies. I would not even use them for a spare bunk!

Respectfully

Tod_Kommt



el_01 #48 Posted Jan 14 2020 - 04:09

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I'll just write down my limited experience as a mediocre player.

 

Personally, I think they require some changes but really aren't all that imbalanced.

 

The wheel hits are kind of BS, that definitely requires some modification. The speed, without the wheels, isn't super game-breaking. I've seen arty players balance wheeled vehicles at full speed, and while auto-aim doesn't really work sometimes vs. wheeled tanks, that can be updated through software, it's not really an issue with the vehicles themselves. Besides, iirc the Ru 251 was really fast back in the day, and while it is certainly larger than a lot of wheelies, I haven't heard anyone complain about that tank's speed in my limited experience. The autoaim? Someone above mentioned it - it doesn't work with lead, and while you can get close to your enemy to be more accurate and get away with it, that just honestly makes you easier to kill. I've seen lots of wheeled tanks get close to the rear of a heavy at the cost of exposing themselves to very nasty TDs, so it kind of works out.

 

Overall though, they aren't horrible to deal with. The Tier 6 is basically meat for my lights and other tanks, and I can load HE to be more effective. Plus, the gun isn't all that great against anything vaguely armoured. The Tier 7 is a bit worse to deal with but has less DPM, and is a larger target than the Tier 6. The Tier 8s I haven't seen much, but the Lynx is easy to hit iirc. Not sure about the FL-10 though.



Belicia #49 Posted Jan 15 2020 - 09:05

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I just watched a video from Circonflexes where his tier VIII EBR was bouncing direct hits into his side from Rhm (128mm or 150mm), Strv (105mm), etc.

 

Zero damage.

 

Don't tell me wheels' aren't broken AF.



InappropriateHandHolding #50 Posted Jan 15 2020 - 17:29

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View PostBelicia, on Jan 10 2020 - 13:57, said:

 

If you seriously believe that arty - in its current miserable state - is a huge problem for you on the battlefield, then you're just bad at tanks.

 

And more than a little hypocritical, for someone who has played dozens of arty.

As someone that is a pretty competitive player arty is far worse than anything else in this game and I say it should be removed and you get banned for 1h for every game in arty you have.



Carde #51 Posted Jan 15 2020 - 19:24

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Wheeled turds took all of 5 minutes to figure out and perform excellent in last year when Wargaming made the mistake of lending me a press account.   If the thought of someone with my resume refusing to play wheeled cars because they are below me is not telling, i dont know what is.  Wheeled turds are so stupidly busted that it is unsporting, and id feel worse by winning in one than by losing to one in a real tank.
 
 
 


Belicia #52 Posted Jan 15 2020 - 21:25

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View PostRadio_Demon, on Jan 16 2020 - 04:29, said:

As someone that is a pretty competitive player arty is far worse than anything else in this game and I say it should be removed and you get banned for 1h for every game in arty you have.

 

Who is going to deal with those impenetrable Russian heavies that are steam-rolling through a flank without taking a scratch?


Edited by Belicia, Jan 17 2020 - 03:27.


Pink_Unicorn_Alpha #53 Posted Jan 15 2020 - 21:32

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why all the hate for wheelies? easy kills if u aim. Players need to learn to shoot if u want to kill them. How many times do paper tds and meds get hit and take no damage (they take no damage hits all the time).  Complain complain complain thats all i see.

Belicia #54 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 03:28

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View PostPink_Unicorn_Alpha, on Jan 16 2020 - 08:32, said:

why all the hate for wheelies? easy kills if u aim. \

 

No. Just no.



VooDooKobra #55 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 06:58

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View PostBelicia, on Jan 15 2020 - 01:05, said:

I just watched a video from Circonflexes where his tier VIII EBR was bouncing direct hits into his side from Rhm (128mm or 150mm), Strv (105mm), etc.

 

Zero damage.

 

Don't tell me wheels' aren't broken AF.

can you link that vid? 



Belicia #56 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 11:58

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I just had a battle where the enemy team had FOUR wheeled vehicles.

 

2 x EBR 90

2 x EBR 105

 

The entire thing was one giant dumpster-fire filled with crap. Our entire team was shooting at them and missing round after round after  round.

 

So, there's not even a cap on the number of wheeled vehicles in each battle, the way arty is capped at 3? Are the minions at wargaming really THIS clueless about the harm that Wheeled vehicles are doing to the game?

 

I checked the service record of one of the EBR 105s, and the lowest WR he has for any of his wheeled vehicles is 60%, with most around 67%.

 

p.s. Just for a little icing on this ridiculous experience, one of the EBRs on my team spent half the battle parked behind me shooting duds into the back of me, one again proving that literally everyone who plays EBRs is an infant.


Edited by Belicia, Jan 17 2020 - 12:08.


Belicia #57 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 12:03

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View PostVooDooKobra, on Jan 17 2020 - 17:58, said:

can you link that vid? 

 

This is the circonflexes video I referred to:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=lCRBtEPtxjI

 

The entire video shows how stupid Wheeled vehicles are, but the bit I referred to is at 3:40 ish.



Belicia #58 Posted Jan 23 2020 - 12:57

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Just watched an EBR 105 laugh at a direct-hit from a Maus at point blank range ... it gave him a wobbly wheel.

 

Tell me again how there is nothing wrong with the line of Wheels?



VooDooKobra #59 Posted Jan 23 2020 - 14:50

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View PostBelicia, on Jan 23 2020 - 04:57, said:

Just watched an EBR 105 laugh at a direct-hit from a Maus at point blank range ... it gave him a wobbly wheel.

 

Tell me again how there is nothing wrong with the line of Wheels?

i wonder where exactly these rounds are hitting.  sounds like it hit low on the wheel.  there is nothing wrong with wheelies they just need that hit box fixed.    or at least the tiers 9 and 10 do.  whats funny is guys dont get this mad when my light tank tracks eat a shell when people aim too low and my tracks just turn yellow






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