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Heavy spall liners worth it on super-heavy tanks?


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HOTA_CHATON #1 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 15:53

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I just traded-in my Mauererbrecker for the VK 168.01P (unskinned version) and I am wondering if a heavy-duty spall-liner is worth putting on it.  I know some people run them on the Maus and other Mauchen and such, just wondering if it's good or reasonable on this thing.  Thanks.

Tupinambis #2 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 16:03

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I like it on big stupid tanks. I don't know how much of an effect it actually has on HE damage, but I feel like it makes a big difference for reducing crew fatalities. Also doesn't it make a pretty big impact on stun duration too?


Is it *actually* better than vents or coated optics? Maybe not under normal circumstances, but maybe so if you're getting arty focused a lot, or if you're in a superheavy that gets crew killed a lot [especially the Tortoise with one of its loaders sitting in the cupola weakspot].

I will say I've had a number of cases where my Maus, or Type 5, or E3 or whatever takes a direct hit by big-caliber HE shells and then ends up taking literally 0 damage. IDK if the spall liner had anything to do with it, but it still made me happy. Had a few cases in my Maus where an FV 183 hit me with a HESH shell and did like... 100 damage. Made me laugh [that's definitely not normal though, the FV was probably insanely unlucky].

Edited by Tupinambis, Jan 17 2020 - 16:06.


Zourn #3 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 16:14

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It's worth it on my 705A during those HE brawls between super heavies.. You can tell who has one and who doesn't in those situations. However, I wouldn't put them on anything but the big slow armored tanks.

ShadowDancer27 #4 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 16:14

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I have one on my Maus.  In some stalemate situations it makes a big difference.  I had a match recently that was 11 superheavies or siege TDs, two mediums and two arty.  It was a slow grind of attrition with a huge amount of HE fired overall.  The Maus vision is pretty good and most engagements in it aren't getting to vision management anyhow...it isn't going to win a camouflage contest either.

Ironmike11B #5 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 16:16

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It really comes down to how much you think you'll be focused by arty or derps.

Cricketer #6 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 16:26

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In my opinion, "super"-heavy spall liners (+50% protection) are worth it but heavy spall liners (+30% protection) are not, because of that 20% difference.

hardicon #7 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 16:44

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I dont think so, not with the current state of the game.  Arty is just an annoyance to superheavies anyway, doesnt seem to work that well against the hesh rounds and most people spam gold rounds at superheavies anyway so it doesnt really matter.  I took it off the Maus a while back to focus on gun handling so I can snapshot faster without exposing my turret for too long to gold rounds.  Your mileage may vary but right now just dont think it is really worth it against using vents, rammer and either vstab or gun laying drive.

moogleslam #8 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 16:50

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No, I like to practice arty avoidance.  Spall Liners are situational.  First, there has to be arty in your battle.  Next, they have to have line of fire to your position, and then if they do, they actually have to be aiming at you.

 

I much prefer equipment that is giving me a permanent benefit.  Vents, Rammer, GLD, Vstab, Optics, etc.

 

I do currently have a Spall Liner on two tanks, but they're weird ones and I hardly ever play them:

 

  • Pz. B2 (with Vents & Optics).  Aim time is incredibly good, so GLD isn't doing much.  Rammer isn't available.  Not going to sit and snipe, so no reason for Binocs/net.  Not much left but a toolbox or a Spall Liner, and with reusable repair kits these days, or the option to carry a second one, not much value in toolboxes.
  • FCM 36 Pak 40 (with Net & Optics).  Yes, this is more of a sit and snipe tank, but the optics gives good flexibility compared to Binocs, and it's base view range is insane for tier 3 to the point that optics can already take you way past the max, so no reason for Binocs.  Rammer isn't available.  Vents aren't available.  It also has really good aim time, and because you want to play it outside of view range of other tanks, you have time to sit still and aim between shots, so GLD isn't really needed.  Spall Liner is really all that's left to consider in the event arty does spot you.

 

And yeah, I haven't talked about the ramming protection, but that's so rarely used that it's not worth mentioning.   You're ramming or getting rammed, what, once every 20, 30, 50 battles?

 

 



MI_LAD #9 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 16:58

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if there was a 4th slot maybe, even then a toolkit would probably be better 

dave_292 #10 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 17:07

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Yes it is worth it. Your too slow to run or hide.

Buttknuckle #11 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 17:17

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Im with Moog's on this. I know people use them but I've never put a spall liner on a tank. Spall liners are situational and I'd rather use that equipment slot for something that I know I'll get use out of every game.

Snohoe #12 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 17:30

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Ehh... when it comes down to it the difference is like 50 hp most of the time if even that from the big gun ones... for me vents or the like would have far greater a impact, that extra shot a game or that little extra view range and gun handling is just useful far more often. Apparently WG says equipment is getting reworked this year so maybe in the future it won't be so near useless.

golruul #13 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 17:31

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Generally, no. 

 

Arty frequently hits the top of tanks, so it doesn't really help hp-wise (it will, however, help with crew deaths). 

 

If someone's spamming HE at the front of your super-heavy, you pretty much won that battle trade-wise.  So spall liner won't help much here... unless, of course, you just sit there and keep taking it -- but then I'll suggest you do something else.

 

The only "useful" use case I had was when the tank has aim-time low enough to not need GLD, can't mount a VStab, view range is good enough with all the other buffs, and a valuable crew member is in a commonly hit weakspot.  So I used a super-heavy liner on the Tortoise to help protect my loader.



D1rkjr #14 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 17:33

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I think it's a pretty big deal. If you are being arty focused it can be a life saver. In a tank like the Maus I often find people shooting HE at me and the spall liner really defangs derp guns. If you run into a Japanese heavy it practically cuts their DPM in half against you and it makes 183mm HESH or HE shells far less painful. 

Cowcat137 #15 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 17:38

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I use them for big, slow targets but I wonder how this HE rework will affect the situation, and the value of them.

Snohoe #16 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 17:44

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View PostD1rkjr, on Jan 17 2020 - 10:33, said:

I think it's a pretty big deal. If you are being arty focused it can be a life saver. In a tank like the Maus I often find people shooting HE at me and the spall liner really defangs derp guns. If you run into a Japanese heavy it practically cuts their DPM in half against you and it makes 183mm HESH or HE shells far less painful. 

The problem is that HE shells seek out the weakest part in its splash which is large, so generally the roof / engine deck / underside. 50% of extra armor calculation to 20-100 ish armor doesn't reduce it by much in practise.... And even if it hit a strong part and  the splash didn't reach to somewhere weaker its only roughly a 2-3% difference in damage taken vs the strongest of armor in the game.



Kliphie #17 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 17:46

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On a super heavy, between V-Stab, Vents or Rammer, which are you willing to give up?

 

The only tank I ran a liner on was the T95, but I played it knowing it had to be an arty magnet to be effective.  Otherwise, you were not playing it to its strengths.  

 

 



D1rkjr #18 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 17:47

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View PostSnohoe, on Jan 17 2020 - 16:44, said:

The problem is that HE shells seek out the weakest part in its splash which is large, so generally the roof / engine deck / underside. 50% of extra armor calculation to 20-100 ish armor doesn't reduce it by much in practise.... And even if it hit a strong part and  the splash didn't reach to somewhere weaker its only roughly a 2-3% difference in damage taken vs the strongest of armor in the game.

 

Still, its an improvement to survivability on a tank who's greatest asset is survivability and which is very likely to be hit by HE. To me thats worth it even if it only keeps me alive a little bit longer. 



D1rkjr #19 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 17:49

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Oh. Its also great on the GW E-100. It can mean you survive counter battery fire when you might not otherwise 

13Jake55 #20 Posted Jan 17 2020 - 17:51

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Super heavies it definitely helps peace of mind.




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