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Easy 8 vs M4E2 alias "Uncle Jumbo"


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Shivus #41 Posted Sep 30 2011 - 07:55

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Interestingly the E2 is more of a heavy than the M6 is.  The reason the E2 seems to be rarer is that it depends on people enjoying the derp sherman playstyle and wanting a second credit printer other than that M4 in absence of premiums.  I enjoy the jumbo because the easy 8 was always a real crapshoot on whether I'd pick the flank where I could do anything.  With the E2 I can sit behind the heavy line and play fire support while bouncing shots, or if top tier, can lead the charge and bounce just about anything given range and armor angle.

The second reason it's rare is that almost everyone who would have driven it to bypass the T1 are already past the M6 and into or past the T29.

The E2 and E8 are both love it or leave it tanks.  People love the E8 for its fast and furious playstyle, I hate it because it depends entirely on speed and exploiting lucky defensive holes to get in, do damage with an anemic gun, and get out without being focused and killed.  The E2 by contrast can face down an alley and hear nothing but pings as shots ricochet off the front while it lobs 105 rounds that will do damage to just about anything.

AragornSkywalker #42 Posted Sep 30 2011 - 09:14

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No premium either.

nublex #43 Posted Sep 30 2011 - 09:31

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View PostAragornSkywalker, on Sep 30 2011 - 04:25, said:

You mean like how I have a 58% w/l on my leopard with less than 80 games, whereas you have barely 51% on your beloved m5 in almost 300?
Congrats, you have found yourself some decent team on those 80 games. Now do you have a tank with average game time less than 2 minute achieve over 48% over 100 games?


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Or just get the lee and go straight for the sherman.
Nevermind down time and parallel research.

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Oh please. the second engine only gives it 18hp/w compared to 17hp/w for the stock T34 engine. The m7 is overall faster and more agile, but thats cause it has zero armor whatsoever. Everything will penetrate it. A top tier T-34 (rare, but it happens), will actually bounce a few shells. The frontal hull has a decent slope.
In case you didn't notice, M4A1 have piss poor narrow tracks that makes it acceptable for cross country, completely rubbish in 'bad' terrain. A Pz IV with stock turret WILL smoke a Sherman on unpaved ground, and have quite a led on them.

M7 front armour, believe it or not, is more reliable than T-34 because of a smaller machine gun port, no bullseye drive hatch and even more sloped.

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Bullshit.

In 157 games with a 61% w/l on the T-34, I have 10 master gunners and 27 sharpshooters. The T-34 can snipe and spam with the same gun. The Zis 57 is one of the most versatile guns in the game, and it doesnt need 100% crew to kick ass. If you go all the way back to the initial statement you pounced on, you notice I never said the M7 was bad. I just said that it was underwhelming until elite. And I never said it was worse than the T-34 in every way, just that the Zis is superior to the 6lber no matter how you slice it. Modules are acquired after a few games in T5, but crew is not. Saying the 6lber is better with the stock turret doesnt mean shit if you are only on that turret for 5 games. Elite doesnt just mean modules, but also crew. A tank that relies as much on soft characteristics like speed and manueverability as the M7 needs a maxed out crew period, just like the E8. You won't drive as fast, turn as well, or hit shit if your crew isn't at least 90%. A nub crew can at least play peek-a-boo with the derp, or stay stationary so long with the Zis that it can snipe, making some good exp. If you just want the E2 or E8 or w/e, you want a T5 medium that operates as close to maximum efficiency with minimal training, and the M7 is not that tank. But if the run and gun pseudo-light style appeals to you, then the M7 is not a bad choice.
I wonder if you get those stats before Lowe comes out, mind you that is before QF6lbr nerf (which only does less damage compare to 57mm, and all Mark V).

ZiS 4 is by far one of LEAST versatile gun in game (better than QF6lbr now), because it only have high rate of fire and good stationary accuracy. Its engagement range is either 300+m or 50m, and without hard cover between you and your target.

And if you do read you post, you notice I said STOCK turret. M7 will get as much firepower in stock turret as in upgrade turret, where is T-34 suffer a massive 1/3 less RoF with stock turret. And because of this, M7 can precede to research Wright Continental R975C4 for Sherman, you aint missing out much after all.

And no, I don't found M7 underwhelming before elite or 75% crew, no more if less underwhelming than T-34. Your nub crew on T-34 have lower accuracy, takes a lot longer to aim and reload just like M7 being less maneuverable.....i.e. there is no need for M7 to unlock 'sniping' with good crew, while being better in the substitute light by default.

AragornSkywalker #44 Posted Sep 30 2011 - 09:56

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View Postnublex, on Sep 30 2011 - 09:31, said:

Congrats, you have found yourself some decent team on those 80 games. Now do you have a tank with average game time less than 2 minute achieve over 48% over 100 games?
Or maybe The m5 just sucks, and that someone who doesn't even enjoy playing light tanks can perform signficantly better than someone who so vehemontly defends one?

2 minute games to get killed? Is that an accomplishment?

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Nevermind down time and parallel research.
You mean getting yourself blown up in the first 2 minutes doesnt have down time?  

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In case you didn't notice, M4A1 have piss poor narrow tracks that makes it acceptable for cross country, completely rubbish in 'bad' terrain. A Pz IV with stock turret WILL smoke a Sherman on unpaved ground, and have quite a led on them.
Reading comprehension fail much? Where did I mention the sherman?

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M7 front armour, believe it or not, is more reliable than T-34 because of a smaller machine gun port, no bullseye drive hatch and even more sloped.
Yes, cause ppl will definitely be trying to hit your weak spots on your 38mm of frontal. Its shaped like a fat potato, it bounces nothing.

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I wonder if you get those stats before Lowe comes out, mind you that is before QF6lbr nerf (which only does less damage compare to 57mm, and all Mark V).


Sure, blame the lowes.

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ZiS 4 is by far one of LEAST versatile gun in game (better than QF6lbr now), because it only have high rate of fire and good stationary accuracy. Its engagement range is either 300+m or 50m, and without hard cover between you and your target.
This is based on your lengthy experience in russian tanks?

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And if you do read you post, you notice I said STOCK turret. M7 will get as much firepower in stock turret as in upgrade turret, where is T-34 suffer a massive 1/3 less RoF with stock turret. And because of this, M7 can precede to research Wright Continental R975C4 for Sherman, you aint missing out much after all.
It takes a few games to get the turret on the T-34. Big freaken woop. Its gonna take you a helluva lot more to max out your M7 crew.

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And no, I don't found M7 underwhelming before elite or 75% crew, no more if less underwhelming than T-34. Your nub crew on T-34 have lower accuracy, takes a lot longer to aim and reload just like M7 being less maneuverable.....i.e. there is no need for M7 to unlock 'sniping' with good crew, while being better in the substitute light by default.

Right, my 0.31 gun has a lower accuracy than your 0.38 gun. And my 2.0 aim time takes longer than your 2.0 aim time. 100% crew isn't just for sniping, its also for a hitting a damn thing on the move. If your M7 is so great in its non-elite state, why is your W/L such a pitiful 48%?

nublex #45 Posted Sep 30 2011 - 13:03

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View PostAragornSkywalker, on Sep 30 2011 - 09:56, said:

Or maybe The m5 just sucks, and that someone who doesn't even enjoy playing light tanks can perform signficantly better than someone who so vehemontly defends one?

2 minute games to get killed? Is that an accomplishment?
How else can you explain I got higher win percentage with large number of games compare to my other tanks? Even for a sucky player like me can accomplish significant impact on the team despite having very a lot shorter play time compare to other tanks?

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You mean getting yourself blown up in the first 2 minutes doesnt have down time?
I don't, because Lee/T1HT/Sherman/T32 is waiting.

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Reading comprehension fail much? Where did I mention the sherman?
On the previous post you did.

Anyways, hp/t is only part indication of a tanks' acceleration and maneuverability; never mind momentum and transmission's performance in high speed. Eitherway, I yet to fail smoke a T-34 with Wright Continental R975C1, let alone C4.

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Yes, cause ppl will definitely be trying to hit your weak spots on your 38mm of frontal. Its shaped like a fat potato, it bounces nothing.
It is at least as bouncy against German 5cm, and would bounce high pen gun at times because they think they can penetrate 38mm like hot knife through butter, so they shoot from very bad angle.

Let's put it this way: how can you bounce a BL10 with T-34? you can't. But M7 can when they took a sloppy shot.

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Sure, blame the lowes.
Sure it isn't their fault, it only takes about 40 second full broadside from T-34 to kill one without the tracks or any other modules, random bounces interfering anyways :P

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This is based on your lengthy experience in russian tanks?
http://img137.images...3/shot004om.jpg
Forgot to save screenshots for my stats, but this one should do.

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It takes a few games to get the turret on the T-34. Big freaken woop. Its gonna take you a helluva lot more to max out your M7 crew.
I seriously don't know why T-34 should be significantly better with crews at some skill level.

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Right, my 0.31 gun has a lower accuracy than your 0.38 gun. And my 2.0 aim time takes longer than your 2.0 aim time. 100% crew isn't just for sniping, its also for a hitting a damn thing on the move. If your M7 is so great in its non-elite state, why is your W/L such a pitiful 48%?
?
When you are driving over 35kph and/or within 50m 0.08 accuracy is pretty meaningless.

For a sucky player like me to achieve 48% start with 50% crew? M7 have be very crap!

Not to mention I get out of M7 in 74 games, I guess THATS too much compare to another 70 games on M4 to get E8/Jumbo.

Hoche #46 Posted Sep 30 2011 - 14:09

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Comparing w/l %'s is a crap way to compare tanks/players i reckon. it doesnt take into account how good/bad the other 29 players were in each game, goofy game balance and luck of the draw in the tier range of the battle (ie near the bottom of the pile for a seemingly endless run of games)

Thornir #47 Posted Sep 30 2011 - 22:16

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View Postnublex, on Sep 29 2011 - 08:25, said:


...T-34 with stock turret only gets 20RPM, please explain how would 10 points of damage, 7mm of penetration and 0.08 accuracy offset 1/3 fire rate.

Umm...M7 with ITS stock turret can't use its 6 pounder, at all...you are back to the 37mm in the M7's stock turret...

Didn't this thread used to was about the Jumbo?  :lol:

nublex #48 Posted Sep 30 2011 - 23:41

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View PostThornir, on Sep 30 2011 - 22:16, said:

Umm...M7 with ITS stock turret can't use its 6 pounder, at all...you are back to the 37mm in the M7's stock turret...

Didn't this thread used to was about the Jumbo?  :lol:
Log on and check yourself, you can.

The argument starts as Jumbo is the best way to access heavy line *and* progress medium line, by which is NOT when you consider the benefit of reduced downtime, cross line module research, forward compatible module research, interchangeable modules (i.e. you don' have to buy the same modules again) and continues crew.

Unless of course you try to fit tanks from all three nations in 5 garage space.

DerJager #49 Posted Oct 01 2011 - 00:04

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I don't know about that, for an extra 100k credits, you can get a 75% crew in any tank. Thats not much worse than you have with a good crew in a vehicle they're not competent in.

And the Jumbo does offer the best way to advance the medium *and* heavy line simultaneously. I ground out all the modules for the T1 HT so I can have an acceptable M6 as soon as I buy it. But since I didn't like the T1 and found it difficult to use (as many do), I decided to get the M6 from the Jumbo Sherman, as I was already planning on going up the medium line as well.

With the Easy 8, you can pay 50000xp to get a TD thats really only 21000 from the M10, and another 50000 for the T20. But with Jumbo, I can pay 15000xp for a tank that costs 27000xp from the heavy line, and 50000xp for the T20.


The Jumbo is a better way to advance *multiple* branches of the tech tree simultaneously. You could compare it to the KV 13, or the VK 3002(DB) in that it serves as a link to multiple branches of the tech tree that you couldn't reach without back-tracking several tiers, or even starting at Tier II again.

nublex #50 Posted Oct 01 2011 - 04:20

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A 100k credit question: do I grind 100k for another bunch of crews or do I save it up for a Vent/Rammer (FYI M6 use medium Rammer, and have 6 crews) later with 60% crews for free?

Jumbo is only better if you skip M7, which involve skip the light tank line. Here is another 100k credit question: do you play the light tank line to fill the down time of the medium/heavy line with compatible guns or TD line with incompatible guns?

Not to mention T1HT is basically the same tanks as M6, on top of pre-research modules, whether you get sick of it or not, you should know how to use it.

Then, researching 76mm M1A2 on Jumbo involving researching alternative (rather than upgrade) turret, unlike E8.

I also got a few penny for not having multiple 105 and M1A2 gun gathering dust.

superfluidity #51 Posted Oct 02 2011 - 09:07

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View PostAragornSkywalker, on Sep 27 2011 - 22:07, said:

Hence your 58% w/l?

Yeah, see... what I'm saying is; the tank is not terrible... sort of like "little John" or "jumbo shrimp"... it is more in line with Easy 8... "Have you tried the easy 8?", "Why no, little John but I love my Terrible 2!"

Heavy_Weapon #52 Posted Oct 02 2011 - 17:42

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View Posttheamericn, on Sep 27 2011 - 06:57, said:

my easy 8 makes more money than the jumbo from my own experience. but both are fun to play just differant styles on how you use them the jumbo is used more like a speedy heavy than a medium


(IS-7 like) lol

DerJager #53 Posted Oct 02 2011 - 19:49

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IDK about the IS7, its armor is still very good, if not quite as strong as an IS-4's.

Zinegata #54 Posted Oct 03 2011 - 01:00

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Nublex, seriously, stop your light tank loving so this thread can get back to the Jumbo.

On a personal level, I haven't picked up the Jumbo simply because I don't have a garage slot for it yet.

The main reason for me to get one would have been to continue playing a 105mm derp tank into tier 6 on the way to getting the T-29 (which I'm much better at, and I'd rather endure more matches on the Jumbo than on the T1). But since I already have a T29, there's not quite as much reason for me to pick one up.

nublex #55 Posted Oct 03 2011 - 13:32

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View PostZinegata, on Oct 03 2011 - 01:00, said:

Nublex, seriously, stop your light tank loving so this thread can get back to the Jumbo.

On a personal level, I haven't picked up the Jumbo simply because I don't have a garage slot for it yet.

The main reason for me to get one would have been to continue playing a 105mm derp tank into tier 6 on the way to getting the T-29 (which I'm much better at, and I'd rather endure more matches on the Jumbo than on the T1). But since I already have a T29, there's not quite as much reason for me to pick one up.
It isn't light loving, just plain old effective grinding.

This thread is about Jumbo vs E8, which the upgrade path should also be consider since there is a choice. E8 lost the ability to jump on the heavy line, but can be research from the lights instead.

The less you endure on T1HT, the more you suffer in M6; unless you have enough free exp, which is irrelevant to the tanks themselves.

LordYinYang #56 Posted Oct 03 2011 - 22:36

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On the blue moons I do meet a Jumbo in my  Easy 8, I don't try going for them unless I got back up, or nice cover to make it harder for the Jumbo, most are armed with the 105, one shot in my side, I'm going to have a bad run.

Still feel the Easy 8 is the better tank, unless your in it to skip the T1 heavy.  If your going up the American medium line, your better off in the Easy 8, where it matches the lack of armor which is the notable trait for the US tree, with a few exceptions anyway.  The Easy 8 is the Jack of all trades-Master of none, it can do a larger range of tasks that the other T6 tanks dream of.  I really hope the Easy 8 doesn't die out because it doesn't have a silly 105 mini derp gun and a lack of notable armor.

Throckmorton #57 Posted Oct 03 2011 - 23:57

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I chose the Jumbo because I wanted to skip the T1 heavy and start with the M6.  This thread has helped me come to terms with the Jumbo, which plays different than my other tanks.

I have the 76mm M1A1, the 105 mm SPH M4L23, and I can't yet afford the 76mm M1A2.  What are the differences between these guns?  Everyone in this thread says they run the 105mm.  Ok, cool, but what are the other guns good for than?? They must be there for a reason.  (This newbie just doesn't know crap about guns, as you can tell.)

Shivus #58 Posted Oct 04 2011 - 00:16

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View PostThrockmorton, on Oct 03 2011 - 23:57, said:

I chose the Jumbo because I wanted to skip the T1 heavy and start with the M6.  This thread has helped me come to terms with the Jumbo, which plays different than my other tanks.

I have the 76mm M1A1, the 105 mm SPH M4L23, and I can't yet afford the 76mm M1A2.  What are the differences between these guns?  Everyone in this thread says they run the 105mm.  Ok, cool, but what are the other guns good for than?? They must be there for a reason.  (This newbie just doesn't know crap about guns, as you can tell.)
On the Jumbo they have no reason.  The 76 M1A1 and A2 are fine on the Easy 8 because it has the speed and maneuverability to flank higher tier tanks and pound into their soft side and rear armor.  The Jumbo has none of that speed, and its entire strength is focused in the frontal armor.  So it often has to settle with engaging whatever is in front of it.  This is why the 105 is ideal because it will damage just about anything from any direction.

Golgi #59 Posted Oct 04 2011 - 00:18

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I find that it depends on the map you are on whether or not the E8 is better than the Jumbo. On an open map, the E8 of course.  I recently ran head long into a Jumbo in a town battle and lost in fine fashion.  I would definately run the 105 in the Jumbo if and when I get one.

DerJager #60 Posted Oct 04 2011 - 00:56

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I agreed, the Jumbo is better on certian maps (such as town maps, and those with only a few routes of attack). I think this mostly has to do with the fact that it is infact an assult tank.




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