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Light Tank Bullies


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PRJ76 #1 Posted Feb 12 2020 - 18:12

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I start this post with some trepidation as I fear that I may be kicking a hornets nest, however, I think the issue needs to be addressed.  I was playing WOT nearly all day, yesterday, and one major problem stood out to me, more than any other - light tanks cause more problems in this game than anything else.  First off, they are hard as hell to hit, and when you do, it takes three shots to kill them!  Why do they have such high HPs?  If you do happen to hit one, you had better be able to finish it off because the people operating these vehicles want vengeance!  I've never seen any other vehicle class act so petty and childish as these these people seeking revenge.  Seems they take a hit as a personal attack, when, in fact, people are just playing the game.  Heaven help the person they've decided to deliberately attack, because most tanks can't take them out while they are swarming around you!  In too many instances, I've witnessed these light tanks totally change the course of the battle all by themselves.  If three or more are on the enemy team (saw a lot of that too), it's nearly impossible to take them out.  How did it come aboout that such a fast tank should be indestructible?  I can understand they need speed, but high-caliber, fast reloading guns, and dense armor too?  Really?  Does anyone agree with me?  Maybe I just haven't developed a strategy to deal with these tanks.  If you have one, please let me know so I can at least have some defense against them.

Qualm #2 Posted Feb 12 2020 - 18:17

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It's only the really good light tank drivers that can make them bullies.  Every other light tank is a speedbump under the red team's treads.

 

Well-driven light tanks though, are truly bullies.  I try to be a bully whenever I can :rolleyes:



MiddleAgedNoob #3 Posted Feb 12 2020 - 18:23

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Hi there OP,

 

You might want to post a replay or two (you can upload them to wotreplay.eu and put a link in a forum post) so others might be in a position to offer advice.  I see that your most played tank is the T 29, followed by the Sherman Jumbo.  As a light tank driver, I would note that I find that going after either of those two (assuming you are using the stock turret on the Jumbo) from the front is almost pointless due to their armour profile.  I deal with those two by trying for side or rear shots, which in turn means either finding a way to get to their flanks, or finding one out in the open and circle strafing them.  That, without seeing a replay, is likely the source of your problem.  I would guess that you are putting yourself in positions where you are exposing yourself to flanking fire.  If you find a position that is hull down and you have cover on your flanks, either in a corridor or from friendly tanks, you won't have much to worry about from light tanks.

 

GLHF


Edited by MiddleAgedNoob, Feb 12 2020 - 18:25.


Jer1413 #4 Posted Feb 12 2020 - 19:00

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View PostPRJ76, on Feb 12 2020 - 13:12, said:

I start this post with some trepidation as I fear that I may be kicking a hornets nest, however, I think the issue needs to be addressed.  I was playing WOT nearly all day, yesterday, and one major problem stood out to me, more than any other - light tanks cause more problems in this game than anything else.  First off, they are hard as hell to hit, and when you do, it takes three shots to kill them!  Why do they have such high HPs?  If you do happen to hit one, you had better be able to finish it off because the people operating these vehicles want vengeance!  I've never seen any other vehicle class act so petty and childish as these these people seeking revenge.  Seems they take a hit as a personal attack, when, in fact, people are just playing the game.  Heaven help the person they've decided to deliberately attack, because most tanks can't take them out while they are swarming around you!  In too many instances, I've witnessed these light tanks totally change the course of the battle all by themselves.  If three or more are on the enemy team (saw a lot of that too), it's nearly impossible to take them out.  How did it come aboout that such a fast tank should be indestructible?  I can understand they need speed, but high-caliber, fast reloading guns, and dense armor too?  Really?  Does anyone agree with me?  Maybe I just haven't developed a strategy to deal with these tanks.  If you have one, please let me know so I can at least have some defense against them.

 

So attacking your tank is just petty revenge? Perhaps they're "just playing the game" as well, did you think of that?

 



Peak_Bagger #5 Posted Feb 12 2020 - 19:10

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Bullies? They're pretty much the opposite of bullies. The are like the bully's kid brother who hides behind the bully, runs out and kicks you in the shin when you're not looking, then runs and hides again. At least that's the way I play them. They're opportunists. I love my light tanks!

 

I had my first ace in the LTG last night. My last kill was a VK 100 P. I was only able to get the kill by circling him and hitting hit weak spots as he was focusing on others. It was all kinds of fun!



mohawkdriver #6 Posted Feb 12 2020 - 19:18

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I don't really see the problem here.  Although I would agree that three fast scouts (EBR's or equivalent) can be quite a challenge, but my advice is to overcome, adapt, and cope.  Otherwise, you will only continue to be frustrated about something that has been in the game for some time now.

Plays_With_Matches #7 Posted Feb 12 2020 - 19:26

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:popcorn:

 

OP must be Arty driver. Because that is the only class that makes me want vengeance when being shot at by... That said, that feeling isn't unique to when I am driving light tanks.


Edited by Plays_With_Matches, Feb 12 2020 - 19:27.


Vava_das_SPGs #8 Posted Feb 12 2020 - 19:36

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View PostPlays_With_Matches, on Feb 12 2020 - 15:26, said:

:popcorn:

 

OP must be Arty driver. Because that is the only class that makes me want vengeance when being shot at by... That said, that feeling isn't unique to when I am driving light tanks.

His stats shows that he's a major MT player.
SPGs and LTs are the least played classes, although.

For me, (allied) LTs are my best friends. A well played LT working with us (arties) can change the tide of a barely lost battle.



dagengster #9 Posted Feb 12 2020 - 20:36

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Heres my thoughts on this as someone who enjoys playing light tanks:

 

1. Lights have the lowest HP pools already (other than spg but thats different)

2. Shooting people back is literally the point of the game. Thats literally what heavies do all day. 

3. If you are being swarmed, that means your positioning is poor (ex: by yourself without support). Lights need to wait for opportune moments to attack close range due to lack of armor.

4. Other than the wheeled lights whos diamond wheels seem to eat up random shots, lights rarely bounce anything. Dont know what you mean by dense armor

5. Wheeled lights are a pain to hit even for other lights. Practice and rng is all I can tell you.



dunniteowl #10 Posted Feb 13 2020 - 04:19

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View PostPRJ76, on Feb 12 2020 - 11:12, said:

I start this post with some trepidation as I fear that I may be kicking a hornets nest, however, I think the issue needs to be addressed.  I was playing WOT nearly all day, yesterday, and one major problem stood out to me, more than any other - light tanks cause more problems in this game than anything else.  First off, they are hard as hell to hit, and when you do, it takes three shots to kill them!  Why do they have such high HPs?  If you do happen to hit one, you had better be able to finish it off because the people operating these vehicles want vengeance!  I've never seen any other vehicle class act so petty and childish as these these people seeking revenge.  Seems they take a hit as a personal attack, when, in fact, people are just playing the game.  Heaven help the person they've decided to deliberately attack, because most tanks can't take them out while they are swarming around you!  In too many instances, I've witnessed these light tanks totally change the course of the battle all by themselves.  If three or more are on the enemy team (saw a lot of that too), it's nearly impossible to take them out.  How did it come aboout that such a fast tank should be indestructible?  I can understand they need speed, but high-caliber, fast reloading guns, and dense armor too?  Really?  Does anyone agree with me?  Maybe I just haven't developed a strategy to deal with these tanks.  If you have one, please let me know so I can at least have some defense against them.

 

 

I would recommend learning more about positioning your tank within support of your team better.  Also if you are getting swarmed by LTs and you are having a hard time dealing with them, I would have to agree with another poster -- you are probably overextended and too far in advance of your team for support.

 

As to them being hard to hit, I'm guessing you have a relatively slow reaction time.  Would it be, perhaps due to greater than 50 years of age?  I'm 59 and my eyesight is not quite as sharp as it once was.  That said, you have to be aware of your surroundings and ready for what may come.  This game is less speed and reflexes and more anticipation and awareness than any other modern (and I mean that in the game development sense, not genre) online game in which I have yet to participate.

 

Taking a gander at your proflle, you are probably playing a little higher tier than your comprehension of the mechanics makes worthwhile.  No matter, what tier you play is less important than WHAT you understand of the game's mechanics.  To that end, I offer you this:

 

                                               The WoT Welcome Package (version 1)

 

Consider this your WoT "Bible" for a while and read a few chapters and verses regularly and learn to incorporate that knowledge into your playing.

 

In that package I have provided a couple things I personally made up to a small degree.  The most important one I think is this:

 

Survive

Do Damage

Help Your Team

 

If you die early and die often (and you do die often, your survival rate is 19.9.% and it should be, to be in a 'good' range about 27% to be suiting your success) then you simply are not there to impact the outcome of the game.  Considering your current tier preferences you aren't doing enough damage (the 2nd part of that mantra above) and that is because basically four times out of five you aren't there to provide it.  You are currently doing about 1 or 2 shots of damage per game.  This is not enough to make much of a positive influence for your team.

 

These things, in conjunction with your OP indicates that you are either 'punching above your weight' (this means you are in a tier you are not playing well enough to actually participate in the match before being removed) or you are guilty of what amounts to "Tunnel" vision, where you are not focused on anything other than what's right in front of you (lack of Situational Awareness).  This also is probably why you are out of position too often.  Without an awareness of where your team is and where the Red Team Might Be, you will constantly either sit in the back, waiting to die (which usually nets you a Survival Rating above 25% in general) or are out too far too soon and get surrounded by Red Team (this seems more likely).

 

So, you should work purposely on being aware of the field and where both teams are (this is called using the Mini-Map) while keeping an eye on what's happening in your immediate vicinity *(your screen view, including your Tank Box (down and to the left, that shows your Health, speed, direction, turret position and crew condition) Team Compositions (Top of screen, showing who's left on each team and what tanks they are using) and your Gun Reticle (shows you your ammo type, dispersion ring, load timer, center aiming point and should also be having a Pen Indicator) ) all of which are part of your HUD (Heads Up Display).

 

Please, I encourage you to read through The WoT Welcome Package (version 1) and make it part of your daily 'training' plan.  The Battle Mechanics are linked to Vision and Spotting, which, other than paying attention to your Mini-Map is probably the most important thing to be fully knowledgeable with regard to your playing success potential. 

 

They may be a bit dated, but of all the video links in that package, Zeven's Replay Reviews are SOLID GOLD to watch.  Zeven is BAR NONE, the single best transmitter of information I have EVER seen in my entire LIFE, inclusive of being taught, tutored, instructed, trained, shown how and educated by folks that range literally from ditch diggers, gardeners, shoe salesmen, college and high school instructors, professional trainers, military instructors and drill sergeants, scientists, technicians and a few PhDs in physics.  Zeven is better than all of them that I have come across in all the things I have been trained or instructed to know.

 

This is by no means a reason to ignore those other Video links, but you can't go wrong if you only chose Zeven, quite honestly.  His Replay Reviews alone helped me more than anything else after the Battle Mechanics.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO


Edited by dunniteowl, Feb 13 2020 - 04:20.


uberdice #11 Posted Feb 13 2020 - 13:22

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If you're getting swarmed by LTs constantly, it's because you're overextending or isolating yourself.

Belicia #12 Posted Feb 14 2020 - 02:15

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The LT-432 somehow manages to bounce direct hits by high-caliber heavies/TDs with remarkable frequency.

 

As for Wheels, they are completely broken. Especially the stupidly OP EBR 90s and EBR 105s. Anyone who denies this is lying, or really REALLY stupid.

 

I've had some terrible battles in my time. But, the battle where the enemy team had 4 EBRs (2 x EBR 90s and 2 x EBR 105s) was utterly ridiculous. One giant Charlie-Fox from start to finish.



Belicia #13 Posted Feb 14 2020 - 02:17

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View PostVava_das_SPGs, on Feb 13 2020 - 06:36, said:

For me, (allied) LTs are my best friends. A well played LT working with us (arties) can change the tide of a barely lost battle.

 

The Light tanks on my teams have usually committed suicide within the first 90 seconds. Most of them seem to be played by millennials with ADHD.



TLWiz #14 Posted Feb 16 2020 - 05:52

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I can't go along with whining about LTs in general, but I am sympathetic to whining about clown cars.

el_01 #15 Posted Feb 16 2020 - 07:59

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Hardly.

 

Any medium with reasonable traverse speed and gun can easily defeat a light tank in really any direct engagement on flat ground. Plus, LT guns are usually horrid at range and don't have very good pen.

 

Their guns aren't high calibre. At all. They're usually among the lowest tier-for-tier, except for the US derps, which are horribly inaccurate and don't have very good pen.

 

Their armour? Well, other than the EBR spaced armour and the LT-432's turret, they really don't. I think I've bounced 100 damage every 5 games in my light tanks, and it's rare considering how much I get shot at.

 

Their HP? If they're so high-HP, why are they the lowest tier-for-tier? Also, you have to keep in mind that they take more arty and HE damage, so they're even less survivable.

 

The reason why people can carry in them is not because of any of the things you mentioned, but because of their mobility and vision capabilities. They are able to relocate and avoid taking fire that armour on an HT could block. They are able to spot the enemy first and make decisions on that, instead of having to rely on their armour to get them out of a sticky situation. They're like any other tank: in the hands of a good player, they will be excellent. If not, then it's an especially quick trip to the garage.

 

They don't really have a HUGE advantage over other classes either. HTs give up the mobility and vision capabilities for armour (if you use it properly) and hard-hitting guns. MTs give up some mobility and vision for some armour and OK guns. TDs give up either armour, vision capabilities, speed, or some combination in exchange for the most powerful guns tier-for-tier. You gain some, you lose some.

 

The solutions:

  • DON'T OVEREXTEND! Keep near your allies that can shoot them. Keep in hard cover, don't go across open fields unless you're confident about the positions of enemy tanks. Usually, getting flanked by LTs easily is a sign that you are in a position where your team cannot provide support. They can't shoot something they're not in a position to, or that forces them to throw their game away in exchange for maybe saving one tank.
  • When being circled: Keep your tank's rear against hard cover, and turn both turret/tank at once. Immediately back your tank up against something hard such that you cannot be completely circled. When turning, turn the turret and tracks at the same time to increase your rotation speed.
  • Practice your pre-aim: Aim at close range isn't usually an issue: right click on their outline with the + sign (or whatever crosshair you're using) and autoaim. EZ. At long range, giving some pre-aim will help both with LTs and with all moving targets.

Hope I was of some use.

 

 


Edited by el_01, Feb 16 2020 - 07:59.


Belicia #16 Posted Feb 17 2020 - 12:14

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View Postel_01, on Feb 16 2020 - 18:59, said:

Their armour? Well, other than the EBR spaced armour and the LT-432's turret, they really don't. I think I've bounced 100 damage every 5 games in my light tanks, and it's rare considering how much I get shot at.

 

Their HP? If they're so high-HP, why are they the lowest tier-for-tier? Also, you have to keep in mind that they take more arty and HE damage, so they're even less survivable.

 

No.

 

I've seen many inexplicable bounces on LT-432s, including a point-blank bounce by a Maus on the turret of an LT-432. Not that the LT-432 ever needs to get that close - it has the viewing range of a Space Station.

 

As for those ****ing EBRs - miss, miss, miss, bounce, miss, bounce, miss miss, miss, wobbly wheel, miss, miss, bounce, miss.

 

I've lost count of the number of battles that have been transformed into ridiculous grunt-rushes by those ridiculously OP vehicles. It's not for nothing that literally EVERY competent WoT streamer has denounced wheeled vehicles as a toxic feature to the game. In one battle, the enemy team had 2 x EBR 90s and 2 x EBR 105s. Players on my team literally alt-tabbed to AFK the battle that was doomed to be a total farce.

 

At this point, I cannot tolerate anyone who continues to defend EBRs. Those who do are either trolling or stupid. Or, more likely, they have been stat-padding with EBRs themselves.

 

 



SKurj #17 Posted Feb 17 2020 - 15:13

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I agree to a point, I have been seeing games with as many as 10 lights, and they completely change the match.  When one catches you alone its easy to get caught in the circle jerk where they often destroy you...  (hell i circle strafed a T29 in my churchil once...  took him down from full health too.. that was fun but many years ago)

 

I'd like to see lights limited to 2/side...   or at least no more than 3 per side, and of those 3 no more than 2 wheelies...  (and ensure both sides have the same # of wheelies)



Dain_Ironfoot_ #18 Posted Feb 17 2020 - 15:45

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Well if you shoot a light tank and it takes half or nearly half of their HP, yes it is going to make them want to take out the threat.  Go try to play them, it's not as easy as it seems... and you can't get hit or your match is about over.  Taking damage greatly reduces your ability to continue being productive.

 

But yes, you have to be aware of the position you are in and what will happen if you are spotted or attacked by a couple of light tanks.  If you aren't thinking about that then you are in for some pain when you get in a bad spot or end up alone away from team mates.


Edited by Dain_Ironfoot_, Feb 17 2020 - 15:47.


el_01 #19 Posted Feb 17 2020 - 18:18

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View PostBelicia, on Feb 17 2020 - 04:14, said:

 

No.

 

I've seen many inexplicable bounces on LT-432s, including a point-blank bounce by a Maus on the turret of an LT-432. Not that the LT-432 ever needs to get that close - it has the viewing range of a Space Station.

 

As for those ****ing EBRs - miss, miss, miss, bounce, miss, bounce, miss miss, miss, wobbly wheel, miss, miss, bounce, miss.

 

I've lost count of the number of battles that have been transformed into ridiculous grunt-rushes by those ridiculously OP vehicles. It's not for nothing that literally EVERY competent WoT streamer has denounced wheeled vehicles as a toxic feature to the game. In one battle, the enemy team had 2 x EBR 90s and 2 x EBR 105s. Players on my team literally alt-tabbed to AFK the battle that was doomed to be a total farce.

 

At this point, I cannot tolerate anyone who continues to defend EBRs. Those who do are either trolling or stupid. Or, more likely, they have been stat-padding with EBRs themselves.

 

 

Notice how I put specific emphasis on the two exceptions - the LT-432 with its rather stupid Russian armour, and the EBRs with their rather stupid wheel armour. I think the wheel armour is especially an issue on the Tier 8 (prem especially),9,and 10, since the Tier 6 and 7 aren't really that hard to hit if you aim well. The EBRs certainly require some changes. I'm not going to speculate on how. 

 

Generally, though, light tanks really aren't that survivable, and I assume the OP is talking about light tanks generally. The most armoured tracked light in the game, the WZ-132-1, has 200mm of armour on the turret, amounting to about 250 effective. Considering that quite a few Tier 9s and some Tier 8s have more than 250mm of penetration, it really isn't that effective. Since I can't find damage bounced statistics for light tanks, I have to rely on anecdotal evidence, sorry. I shouldn't have to explain that brawling with a Chaffee is not going to work, though. 

 

I also question why you included my comments on hit points within your reply. Perhaps you'd like to explain?






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