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Cupola change?


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lonezewolf #1 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 01:58

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Alright my fellow thinkers I feel like there needs to be a change to the cupola, once hit it should not count as a piece of armor. Its been an issue for quite some time, I just never took the opportunity to type out something that is obvious to the naked eye. For example, when I was playing my Guard STG I was shot in the cupola one time, and it counted as a piece armor. We’re going to ignore that fact that the tank is already weak. However, once shot in that specific place, my driver was injured. But still it shouldn’t count as the whole body of the tank.

 

Kv-4 for instance, everyone began targeting the cupola, within minutes the player who was controlling ceased to exist in that game. I feel like it deserved to be changed.



xXTheGameAceXx #2 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 02:04

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The problem is, not all cupolas have the same armor values. On some tanks, they're extremely durable, some impenetrable or just straight up impossible to hit accurately. Others, they're a major weakspot. Sure, some tanks could possibly need to be reviewed if their cupola is so bad that it ruins the entire tank, but that's generally not an issue.

 

Either way you slice it though, if you wanted to remove the cupola from being part of the tank's hitbox, that'd require a universal overhaul to pretty much every tank. You're talking about removing what on many tanks may be the only weak-spot frontally, or at least the only reliable one without powerful gold rounds.



lonezewolf #3 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 02:22

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View PostxXTheGameAceXx, on Feb 15 2020 - 02:04, said:

The problem is, not all cupolas have the same armor values. On some tanks, they're extremely durable, some impenetrable or just straight up impossible to hit accurately. Others, they're a major weakspot. Sure, some tanks could possibly need to be reviewed if their cupola is so bad that it ruins the entire tank, but that's generally not an issue.

 

Either way you slice it though, if you wanted to remove the cupola from being part of the tank's hitbox, that'd require a universal overhaul to pretty much every tank. You're talking about removing what on many tanks may be the only weak-spot frontally, or at least the only reliable one without powerful gold rounds.

 

I can understand that its dutiable on most tanks, and removing the cupola would remove the historical factor of the game. However, I wouldn't say it would require a major overhaul. As WG in the past have done major overhauls for simple sh....



Cowcat137 #4 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 02:23

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The Israeli experience with American M48 and M60 tanks as that the .50 turret when hit was blown completely off of the tank. Typically the commander was killed if he had his head in it when it was hit. The tanks were not destroyed outright but were out of the fight. 

In response they removed the turrets and replaced them with "low profile" hatches, similar to those on an M4A3E8 Sherman. The results were good, enough that the US Army removed all of the turrets for the M48A5 production and new M60A3 production.

 

I'd suggest that in game an MG turret hit would be a critical that also makes the commander a casualty. After it is destroyed though it should not be able to inflict further damage on the tank. 



lonezewolf #5 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 02:27

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View PostCowcat137, on Feb 15 2020 - 02:23, said:

The Israeli experience with American M48 and M60 tanks as that the .50 turret when hit was blown completely off of the tank. Typically the commander was killed if he had his head in it when it was hit. The tanks were not destroyed outright but were out of the fight. 

In response they removed the turrets and replaced them with "low profile" hatches, similar to those on an M4A3E8 Sherman. The results were good, enough that the US Army removed all of the turrets for the M48A5 production and new M60A3 production.

 

I'd suggest that in game an MG turret hit would be a critical that also makes the commander a casualty. After it is destroyed though it should not be able to inflict further damage on the tank. 

 

I agree. 



javasully #6 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 02:34

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The problem with changing cupolas is that they're meant to be a weakspot on many tanks. If you make changes to them then changes have to made elsewhere to compensate.

lonezewolf #7 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 02:39

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View Postjavasully, on Feb 15 2020 - 02:34, said:

The problem with changing cupolas is that they're meant to be a weakspot on many tanks. If you make changes to them then changes have to made elsewhere to compensate.

 

I mean, you can't technically say its a bad thing. 



I_QQ_4_U #8 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 02:41

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I'm sure the VK100 would agree.

javasully #9 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 02:41

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View Postlonezewolf, on Feb 15 2020 - 02:39, said:

 

I mean, you can't technically say its a bad thing. 


I didn't mean to imply it was, just that it would take a lot of work and rebalancing for a change that I'm not sure many people would even find necessary in the first place.



lonezewolf #10 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 02:45

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View Postjavasully, on Feb 15 2020 - 02:41, said:


I didn't mean to imply it was, just that it would take a lot of work and rebalancing for a change that I'm not sure many people would even find necessary in the first place.

I mean, with all the new OP tnaks that're out, and the boxing matches of gold rounds, it would be a slow process, but something that needs to be done sooner or later. 



Fractured_Raptor #11 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 02:49

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View Postlonezewolf, on Feb 14 2020 - 19:58, said:

Alright my fellow thinkers I feel like there needs to be a change to the cupola, once hit it should not count as a piece of armor. Its been an issue for quite some time, I just never took the opportunity to type out something that is obvious to the naked eye. For example, when I was playing my Guard STG I was shot in the cupola one time, and it counted as a piece armor. We’re going to ignore that fact that the tank is already weak. However, once shot in that specific place, my driver was injured. But still it shouldn’t count as the whole body of the tank.

 

Kv-4 for instance, everyone began targeting the cupola, within minutes the player who was controlling ceased to exist in that game. I feel like it deserved to be changed.

 

I've shot tanks in the turret and the after battle report says I damaged their tracks. As far as I know WoT doesn't have shrapnel physics but I could be wrong. 



lonezewolf #12 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 02:52

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View PostFractured_Raptor, on Feb 15 2020 - 02:49, said:

 

I've shot tanks in the turret and the after battle report says I damaged their tracks. As far as I know WoT doesn't have shrapnel physics but I could be wrong. 

 

I've had it happen, it happens extremely rare, usually has to with your connection and the other player's connection. Depending on the two, you can see some magic stuff. 



Fractured_Raptor #13 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 02:53

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View Postlonezewolf, on Feb 14 2020 - 20:52, said:

 

I've had it happen, it happens extremely rare, usually has to with your connection and the other player's connection. Depending on the two, you can see some magic stuff. 

 

Oh I see it now and then. I'll fire and know right away that the shell will miss. Right as it lands where the tank was I connect despite hitting thin air. Makes me laugh every time.



xXTheGameAceXx #14 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 03:06

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View Postlonezewolf, on Feb 14 2020 - 20:39, said:

 

I mean, you can't technically say its a bad thing. 


It's a very bad thing. If you remember what I said, on some tanks that cupola is about the only reliable way to penetrate some tanks frontally. If that weakness were removed, they'd be able to hold indefinitely unless flanked. For example, would you *really* wanna face down a platoon of T26E5's that are all hull-down, and you have nothing you can penetrate, while they just sit there freely shooting you and your allies from perfect safety?



bad_73 #15 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 04:41

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View PostCowcat137, on Feb 15 2020 - 02:23, said:

The Israeli experience with American M48 and M60 tanks as that the .50 turret when hit was blown completely off of the tank. Typically the commander was killed if he had his head in it when it was hit. The tanks were not destroyed outright but were out of the fight. 

In response they removed the turrets and replaced them with "low profile" hatches, similar to those on an M4A3E8 Sherman. The results were good, enough that the US Army removed all of the turrets for the M48A5 production and new M60A3 production.

 

I'd suggest that in game an MG turret hit would be a critical that also makes the commander a casualty. After it is destroyed though it should not be able to inflict further damage on the tank. 

You see the difference between the wg world and common sense?And I dont understand people talking about historical the way the game has gone.Historical is just a word to get  another demo-graph playing. Hysterical is more relevant these days.



lonezewolf #16 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 07:32

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View PostxXTheGameAceXx, on Feb 15 2020 - 03:06, said:


It's a very bad thing. If you remember what I said, on some tanks that cupola is about the only reliable way to penetrate some tanks frontally. If that weakness were removed, they'd be able to hold indefinitely unless flanked. For example, would you *really* wanna face down a platoon of T26E5's that are all hull-down, and you have nothing you can penetrate, while they just sit there freely shooting you and your allies from perfect safety?

Thats the whole of changing the characteristics of a tank. Logically, and even in, shooting the cupola should not account for the whole tank. It just doesn't make sense. However, towards your statement, like anything change the weak spot of a tank and there you go, problem solved. 



Ded_man #17 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 07:48

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If you’re saying, once your get shot in the cupola once, it should no longer receive hit damage for every sequential shot. Then, would you agree that your driver, commander, or overall functionally of the tank such as vision should be hindered for the rest of the match, regardless of a health kit or repair kit? I mean, that would make sense after all.

 

If it were implemented the way you say, bring it. I would love to be a hull down god, and welcome the first cupola hit, never to be damaged again. 


Edited by Ded_man, Feb 15 2020 - 07:49.


xXTheGameAceXx #18 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 08:17

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View Postlonezewolf, on Feb 15 2020 - 01:32, said:

Thats the whole of changing the characteristics of a tank. Logically, and even in, shooting the cupola should not account for the whole tank. It just doesn't make sense. However, towards your statement, like anything change the weak spot of a tank and there you go, problem solved. 


Two things:

1) Then that requires an entire rework of any tank with a cupola, like I said before, and like you said wouldn't need to be done before. That also screws with an entire meta, and causes even more and worse issues, especially for hull-down tanks. If you can't pen the cupola on a T26E5, then they'd have to make the turret weakened. If they weaken the turret, it ruins the tank. See how that goes?

 

2) Nothing you shoot should literally account for the whole tank. You still cause damage even with repeated shots at even a small portion of the rear of a tank. This game is designed specifically to be a game, not real life.



lonezewolf #19 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 16:55

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View PostxXTheGameAceXx, on Feb 15 2020 - 08:17, said:


Two things:

1) Then that requires an entire rework of any tank with a cupola, like I said before, and like you said wouldn't need to be done before. That also screws with an entire meta, and causes even more and worse issues, especially for hull-down tanks. If you can't pen the cupola on a T26E5, then they'd have to make the turret weakened. If they weaken the turret, it ruins the tank. See how that goes?

 

2) Nothing you shoot should literally account for the whole tank. You still cause damage even with repeated shots at even a small portion of the rear of a tank. This game is designed specifically to be a game, not real life.

 

Alright my friend, changes are a big part of the gaming universe. It may be bad at first, but that's highly depended on how they change it. If I was going to change a weak spot on a tank I would do the research that's necessary, and do multiple test that is require to complete the process. The argument here is that, you seem to be terrified of the idea of change. As the game as is, it may be benefiting you as a player, but to others not so much. It's kind of like the Infamous E-25, before the nerf people were complaining how annoying its Camo was, but, the owners of an E-25 said other wise.  So, all in all, you not going to please everybody. 



G1N_T4NK #20 Posted Feb 15 2020 - 17:03

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It's stupid that a hit in the cupola takes full dmg.
It should be 50% max.




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