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[ ST ] Tech Tree Changes and Collectors' Vehicles

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KRZYBooP #1 Posted Feb 24 2020 - 18:41

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Howdy Boom Jockeys!

 

As you might remember, after the updated balance underwent a thorough Sandbox testing, it was decided to move forward with two newly introduced changes. And this iteration of the Supertest will be dealing with the one involving Tech Trees.

Yes, we keep in mind that it's the vehicles of Tiers VI-X and their transfer from tech trees to the Collectors’ category that interest you in the first place. The decisions are yet to be made here, and as soon as we are done, we’ll share the information with you. One thing is beyond doubt: all these machines will be available for purchase for credits. As for this Supertest, it’s dedicated to low-tier vehicles only.

According to this change, a number of vehicles will fall into the Collectors’ category meaning to drive them into your Hangar you don’t have to spend a point of your XP. Some vehicles will be moved to other tiers or even get assigned to other classes. Also, some brand-new tanks will enter the game for the first time! All this shuffling is to secure a more consistent progression through tech trees. The detailed list of all new vehicles and those subject to changes can be seen below.

It’s worthy to note that the test focus is narrowed to alterations related to vehicles themselves at this point, with tech trees and status changes put on the back burner. As for how these class/tier changes will be brought to life, the possible solutions are under consideration and once decisions are made, they will be shared with players.

Vehicles to be moved to other tiers (12 in total):

  • Cruiser Mk. I — from Tier II to Tier I
  • Cruiser Mk. II — from Tier III to Tier II
  • Cruiser Mk. III — from Tier II to Tier III
  • Cruiser Mk. IV — from Tier III to Tier IV
  • Valentine — from Tier IV to Tier III
  • Valentine AT — from Tier III to Tier IV
  • Crusader — from Tier V to Tier VI
  • Covenanter — from Tier IV to Tier V
  • BT-7 — from Tier III to Tier IV
  • KV-1S — from Tier V to Tier VI
  • А-20 — from Tier IV to Tier V
  • SU-76 — from Tier III to Tier IV

Vehicles to be assigned to other classes (5 in total)

  • Crusader (a medium to become a light tank)
  • T54E1 (a medium to become a heavy tank)
  • VK 30.01 (H) (a heavy to become a medium tank)
  • VK 30.01 (P) (a medium to become a heavy tank)
  • Type 97 Chi-Ha (a medium to become a light tank)

Vehicles to be added to the game (3 in total)

  • BT-5 — Tier III Soviet light tank. Gameplay-wise it shares a lot with the BT-2 that’s been long on the game’s vehicle roster.
  • T6 Medium — a Tier IV American medium. To keep it simple, it’s the famous Sherman and it plays accordingly.
  • Cavalier — a Tier V British medium bearing strong resemblance to the far-famed Cromwell.

It goes without saying that all the vehicles mentioned will be balanced, and for this purpose, they will enroll in the Supertest. Please keep in mind that none of the changes are set in stone and the stats may be subject to further tweaks.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 


Edited by KRZYBooP, Feb 24 2020 - 19:53.


nrnstraswa #2 Posted Mar 10 2020 - 17:16

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Are the stats of those vehicles changing classes (medium to heavy for example) being changed? The VK3001H needs a mobility buff if it becomes a medium once again. 

 

 



bbarton #3 Posted Mar 18 2020 - 18:43

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No matter what you change around I would like to see the tech tree's all laid out the same Light tanks, medium tanks, Heavy tanks, tank destroyers and SPG's in the same order for every country top to bottom or left to right.  The reason they should all be in the same order is for ease of finding information. information should be in the same place in all countries.  Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

Cricketer #4 Posted Mar 23 2020 - 15:53

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As per the latest article (Mar 23: New Balance Features in Update 1.9) the Collectors' vehicles will NOT have transferable crew.

 

Many of us strongly oppose this, they should be able to use other crews of the same nation/class like reward vehicles. The fact that they have funky crews (e.g. AMX 30 and B have a loader) is bad enough, no need to make it worse.



Tank_943 #5 Posted Mar 23 2020 - 16:11

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I don't understand the tech tree change - IT WAS NEVER A PROBLEM, DON'T FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKE. Your game is described as 'teen' and i have yet to meet a teen that cant follow a line to find a tank. 

 

You scrapped the HE changes....excellent...there was nothing wrong with current HE and they add a level of skill to ammunition choice the changes wouldn't have. Now just nerf gold damage by a little. 



FrozenKemp #6 Posted Mar 23 2020 - 16:50

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Are you guys REALLY bumping the low tier British light tanks up a tier in 1.9, then introducing the A46 after 1.9, then moving them down a tier again? 

Maltfourti #7 Posted Mar 23 2020 - 20:38

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So, apparently, there will be NO tier 5 German Heavy Tanks? But others, most notably the US and Japan, will have them?!  How does that make any sense?

Edited by Maltfourti, Mar 23 2020 - 20:38.


JZ1996 #8 Posted Mar 23 2020 - 23:13

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While I can somewhat understand wanting to simplify the tech trees I disagree on the part of removing nearly 100 tanks. One of the things I personally enjoy is the sheer variety of vehicles to choose from and I feel that removing those tanks really hinders that. In the low tiers players are trying out new tanks with different playstyles and finding what best fits them while the costs of playing and buying said tanks are still quite low. by removing them you may actually hurt new players simply by forcing them to get much higher up in the trees before realizing "hold on, this tree doesn't suit me very well" but its too late as they have dumped lots of time and credits into it. the collector vehicles is an "alright" concept but I feel a lot of people would just want them in the trees anyway instead of having to research other vehicles to get them. 

 

Listen WG. I know you probably mean well with your recent decisions. But I really think you need to take your time and look at the feedback you're getting. nearly all the players I know are against most of the changes you're promoting and the few we were interested in have been cancelled and I don't mean the HE shell rebalances. Please, if you want World of Tanks to continue to grow listen to your playerbase before your pocketbook. 



sailorboy7982 #9 Posted Mar 24 2020 - 01:57

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So the Crusader is to become a LT again?

qisjlh #10 Posted Mar 24 2020 - 04:22

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KrzyBoop, I hope you can reflect to your superiors that they should stick to the original promise to make the Tier VI-Tier X collector’s vehicles useable without dedicated crews. It would have allowed players to operate many more tanks without dedicated crews and it would have been a great improvement in the game. Players would even be tempted to play tanks that they would otherwise not think of playing, like the Churchill Gun Carrier or even the T-62A. We can see more diverse games as a result. I have not seen anyone complaining about this proposal.

Backtracking on this promise is not right. Unless Crew 2.0 is going to allow crew to be trained for multiple tanks at once, I strongly protest against this change. At the very least, I would much appreciate it if you can ask for an explanation about the backtracking.

Thank you.

Avalon304 #11 Posted Mar 24 2020 - 05:37

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View Postqisjlh, on Mar 23 2020 - 20:22, said:

KrzyBoop, I hope you can reflect to your superiors that they should stick to the original promise to make the Tier VI-Tier X collector’s vehicles useable without dedicated crews. It would have allowed players to operate many more tanks without dedicated crews and it would have been a great improvement in the game. Players would even be tempted to play tanks that they would otherwise not think of playing, like the Churchill Gun Carrier or even the T-62A. We can see more diverse games as a result. I have not seen anyone complaining about this proposal.

Backtracking on this promise is not right. Unless Crew 2.0 is going to allow crew to be trained for multiple tanks at once, I strongly protest against this change. At the very least, I would much appreciate it if you can ask for an explanation about the backtracking.

Thank you.

 

While I agree that it would be a good move for them to continue with making the tier 6-10 tanks that are getting relocated into reward vehicles, the entire sandbox server and everything on it was subject to change and in no way, constituted a promise that things would make it to the live server in that state.



Avalon304 #12 Posted Mar 24 2020 - 05:38

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View PostJZ1996, on Mar 23 2020 - 15:13, said:

While I can somewhat understand wanting to simplify the tech trees I disagree on the part of removing nearly 100 tanks. One of the things I personally enjoy is the sheer variety of vehicles to choose from and I feel that removing those tanks really hinders that.

 

I mean youre literally going to be able to buy the tanks they listed... just not from the normal tech tree page. Youre still gonna have that variety to choose from, you just wont have to research all of them in order to buy them.... so this is less work for you for the same basic outcome.



Nelyus #13 Posted Mar 24 2020 - 08:44

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Hello,

 

I recently spent around 2500 gold to convert free xp, used my blue prints along with 140k free exp to unlock the AMX30B.

What is my compensation exactly?

I feel like I'm just getting screw up my time, efforts and real money into... nothing?

I have 4 other branches in French tech tree at tier 10...

 

Please let me know I did not waste my blueprints, free exp gold and so many hours of grind for nothing?

Please?

 

I think anyone that researched a collectible tank should have a blueprints reimbursement equal to the amount required to fully unlock it.

That's a minimum , really.



Cricketer #14 Posted Mar 24 2020 - 14:33

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View PostAvalon304, on Mar 23 2020 - 23:37, said:

 

While I agree that it would be a good move for them to continue with making the tier 6-10 tanks that are getting relocated into reward vehicles, the entire sandbox server and everything on it was subject to change and in no way, constituted a promise that things would make it to the live server in that state.

 

Why are you advocating that they shouldn't be treated as reward vehicles, what do you gain from it? Nobody gains anything except WG gaining a handful of gold, at the expense of enjoyability for everyone else.



Avalon304 #15 Posted Mar 24 2020 - 22:42

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View PostCricketer, on Mar 24 2020 - 06:33, said:

 

Why are you advocating that they shouldn't be treated as reward vehicles, what do you gain from it? Nobody gains anything except WG gaining a handful of gold, at the expense of enjoyability for everyone else.

 

I dont really care either way... but trying to use the sandbox posts, which were all full of information that was subject to change as evidence of a promise that WG was going to make them reward vehicles is silly. WG specifically made no promises about anything on sandbox. 

 

That being said: how does them not being reward vehicles impact enjoyability? Theyre not currently reward vehicles, and them becoming reward vehicles only means that you'll be able to use other crews in them, its not as if they'll get more credits. Would I personally like it if they were? Yea sure, but it isnt going to change how enjoyable the tanks are to play if they arent. And that doesnt change that WG made no promises about them becoming reward tanks.



qisjlh #16 Posted Mar 25 2020 - 16:49

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View PostAvalon304, on Mar 24 2020 - 22:42, said:

 

That being said: how does them not being reward vehicles impact enjoyability? Theyre not currently reward vehicles, and them becoming reward vehicles only means that you'll be able to use other crews in them, its not as if they'll get more credits. Would I personally like it if they were? Yea sure, but it isnt going to change how enjoyable the tanks are to play if they arent. And that doesnt change that WG made no promises about them becoming reward tanks.

 

Let's get whether it was a "promise" or "proposal" out of the way. I agree with you that Wargaming is not bound to it. However, given the excitement that Wargaming has generated with the proposal, it at least owe us an explanation for backtracking.

 

You may have forgotten that the Tier VI-X vehicles were going to be given all the top modules under the original proposal. I do understand that players like you with 25,000 games and with enough free EXP and blueprints to research everything will see things differently. However, for the majority of players, the proposal would have a major impact on how enjoyable it is to play the tanks, particularly the ones with bad stock grinds. Consider the Churchill Gun Carrier. Almost 37,000 EXP is needed to equip it with the top gun. That's a substantial amount of grind at Tier VI for a tank well known for being awful. I was originally looking forward to "carrying games" with it using crew trained on other tanks. I also remember posts by other players about trying it as well. Now with the new proposal, no one but hardcore barrel marking fanatics would get out of the tech tree to play the tank, especially when the grinding contributes nothing to tech tree advancement. 

 

Sure, things may not have changed much compared to what it is like at present. (I will argue that making players grind modules without advancing up the tech tree is a retrograde move, although, again, I concede that players of your level see things differently.) But we have heard the proposal and we have seen it technically implemented in the test. It is not as if the proposal were like the Halloween mode that they were simply unable to implement. No one dislikes this aspect of the proposal, except for quibbles about what is actually the best gun for the M4A3E2. Again, while Wargaming is not bound to make the change, it would go a long way if it at least explain why this hugely positive proposal should not be implemented.


Edited by qisjlh, Mar 25 2020 - 16:50.


qisjlh #17 Posted Mar 25 2020 - 18:06

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I want to add one further comment about lower tier reward vehicles. The game badly needs effective sinks at lower tiers to divert newer players from playing higher tier tanks. That way, they can grind through 75% crews, sixth sense, and brothers in arms and learn the game at lower tiers, not at Tier VIII or even higher. A new player ought to be incentivized into simultaneously chasing daily X2 (or more) on the uptiered KV-1S and the KV-85 rather than directly going after the IS and IS-3. A new player should be incentivized into doing the same with the Firefly and the Cromwell rather than directly going after the Comet and the Centurion I. This is something that players at every experience level can and should support. It would result in improved gameplay across all tiers.


The proposal of converting tech tree tanks to reward tanks would accomplish this objective, without Wargaming having to resort to giving out and developing new low tier premium tanks. I would argue that Wargaming should even consider expanding the proposal to include Tier IV and Tier V vehicles removed from the tech tree. Backtracking on the proposal is a retrograde move.


Edited by qisjlh, Mar 25 2020 - 18:07.


Avalon304 #18 Posted Mar 26 2020 - 03:50

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View Postqisjlh, on Mar 25 2020 - 08:49, said:

 

Let's get whether it was a "promise" or "proposal" out of the way. I agree with you that Wargaming is not bound to it. However, given the excitement that Wargaming has generated with the proposal, it at least owe us an explanation for backtracking.

 

The explanation is that we'll now be able to buy them outright from the collectors tab in the tech tree unlike when they were reward vehicles and were going to be subject to other methods of acquisition.

 

I didnt forget anything about the original proposal. They are now being treated as the tier 2-5 collectors tanks. You can buy them whenever you want (assuming youve reach the appropriate tier in that nation) and you can immediately buy their modules and upgrade them to elite (if they have modules to buy).

 

As for players liking the tier 6-10 tanks being reward tanks... they loved it until they were told that they wouldnt be able to just buy them outright. Welp. Here we are. You can now buy them outright, but they arent reward tanks now. They only have themselves to blame for this change.



Tupinambis #19 Posted Mar 26 2020 - 04:14

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View PostTank_943, on Mar 23 2020 - 16:11, said:

I don't understand the tech tree change - IT WAS NEVER A PROBLEM, DON'T FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKE. Your game is described as 'teen' and i have yet to meet a teen that cant follow a line to find a tank. 

 

You scrapped the HE changes....excellent...there was nothing wrong with current HE and they add a level of skill to ammunition choice the changes wouldn't have. Now just nerf gold damage by a little. 


Its a problem in that starting a new tree or a new branch of the tree required wasting time and XP on pointless low tier garbage. I just started the Swedish TD and medium lines. I really would have loved if a bunch of tier 2-4 junk was just kicked out of the way so I wouldn't have to bother wasting free XP on them, or waste time playing games in those stupid things. 
 

View PostMaltfourti, on Mar 23 2020 - 20:38, said:

So, apparently, there will be NO tier 5 German Heavy Tanks? But others, most notably the US and Japan, will have them?!  How does that make any sense?


Making the Vk3001H a tier 5 heavy always felt weird, like sure it was designed to be a "heavy" in the same way a Panzer IV was.... but it really wasn't. 







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