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WoT Needs More Arty Like the FV304

arty artillery fv304

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guynodens #1 Posted Mar 08 2020 - 21:27

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So i'm not a good player, and I don't have any tanks above Tier 8, so bear that in mind. 

 

But I strongly feel like if arty were more like the FV304, more people would play arty and arty would irritate people less. I'm about to unlock the Tier 7 American arty, and I am not looking forward to the decline in rate of fire that goes with it. Generally I've stayed away from arty because it seems very boring because you have such a long reload, and you can't even move around because you're slow and/or moving wouldnt' mean anything because you're so far away that you dont' need to move as it is. 

 

Playing the FV304 feels so much more fun. I enjoy the mobile nature and rate-of-fire so much more than just camping at the back of the map and checking facebook for 20 seconds while my shell reloads. It almost feels less like an arty and more like a wonky TD. 

 

And while yes, being picked on by an FV304 isnt' fun, they're not focused on stunning you or hitting groups like other arties are. No FV304 is gonna drop a nonsense huge hit on you that stuns you without even hitting next to you, and they have to actually play well because they need to seek good positioning. I feel like they're just better for the game. 

 

How do you feel about this? I think if more arty played like this, the class would be more active and fun, you've have to be better at the game to do it, and less stunning and their closer location means that arty would feel more like an actual tank as opposed to the weather. 



Panzerkind #2 Posted Mar 08 2020 - 21:30

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Only good arty is dead arty

Whistling_Death_ #3 Posted Mar 08 2020 - 21:31

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:(

Whistling_Death_ #4 Posted Mar 08 2020 - 21:32

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Every battle, without fail, my artillery is outnumbered by 12-14 tanks! It's not faiiirrrrrr! Tanks are broken and need to be removed from the game! There should be a limit of one tank per battle! I'm telling mommy Wargaming! It's not faiiiirrrrrrr mommmyyy!!!”    :arta:



Whistling_Death_ #5 Posted Mar 08 2020 - 21:50

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waikin_alter #6 Posted Mar 08 2020 - 22:13

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no

cheapbooks #7 Posted Mar 08 2020 - 22:49

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I do not think the FV304 is anything special. it is just an oddity and does not do the SPG class justice.

 

I'd like to see more autoloaders, and the return of the AP shells so you can be rewarded for direct hits. 

 

 



Burhead06 #8 Posted Mar 08 2020 - 23:06

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if they did anything to arty to make it more of an actual support class/force multiplier i'd like it if they gave them smoke and/or illumination rounds at the cost of no premium ammo and/or weaker he damage. make the class more focused on actually supporting the team instead of randomly hitting somebody for 1000 damage because you have a shot on their side/rear for whatever reason.

could also do something along the lines of making them more accurate when fully dialed in, but add in some kind of minigame/skill check to the effect of making them actually challenging to play. picture something like the old lil tank game gunbound, you change your powder charge (power meter) and the angle of your gun to dictate your shells travel time aswell as the arc of the shell. obviously different arty batteries would have limits on how much they could impact their shell arc. i.e. your not going to have 261's magically hitting vertical shell arcs like a GC. but it would put in a very large factor of actual skill to the tank, mixed with their lethality being lowered for the ability to have more supportive abilities like smoke/illumination rounds could make them less frustrating to play against.

mworthy #9 Posted Mar 09 2020 - 01:00

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View PostBurhead06, on Mar 08 2020 - 17:06, said:

if they did anything to arty to make it more of an actual support class/force multiplier i'd like it if they gave them smoke and/or illumination rounds at the cost of no premium ammo and/or weaker he damage. make the class more focused on actually supporting the team instead of randomly hitting somebody for 1000 damage because you have a shot on their side/rear for whatever reason.

could also do something along the lines of making them more accurate when fully dialed in, but add in some kind of minigame/skill check to the effect of making them actually challenging to play. picture something like the old lil tank game gunbound, you change your powder charge (power meter) and the angle of your gun to dictate your shells travel time aswell as the arc of the shell. obviously different arty batteries would have limits on how much they could impact their shell arc. i.e. your not going to have 261's magically hitting vertical shell arcs like a GC. but it would put in a very large factor of actual skill to the tank, mixed with their lethality being lowered for the ability to have more supportive abilities like smoke/illumination rounds could make them less frustrating to play against.


no one lowered lethality leave that alone arty has been nerfed enough, that being said i don't mind more support based ammo the issue, how do you get XP in a game where gaining XP is mostly based on your damage?



Burhead06 #10 Posted Mar 09 2020 - 05:09

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View Postmworthy, on Mar 09 2020 - 00:00, said:


no one lowered lethality leave that alone arty has been nerfed enough, that being said i don't mind more support based ammo the issue, how do you get XP in a game where gaining XP is mostly based on your damage?

you cant have the best of both worlds so they say. if you want the added fucntions of being a support class you cant be dumping on  people for half their health.
and easy. if you assist in something being spotted with illumination rounds , you get spotting assist  points, that covers the majority of getting xp. the smoke rounds would be more of a tactical use to help allies sneak around, or bait people into thinking you are doing that.

keep in mind im not saying neuter arty damage , just effectively lower it , can be in the form of reducing pen so you dont get full pens on as many things , you 'd still get your full pens on paper tanks like a grille skorpion etc... just no more chunking a jpe for 1k damage because you hit the top/side of the tank

as far as the ammo rework would go , i'd say remove premium he rounds , maybe nerf the pen on standard he ammo for the desired effect stated above , add the illumination round as the new "premium" round as its probably what would see the most use between that and smoke rounds in pubbies, and make smoke rounds fill the third ammo slot thats rarely used in any arty piece. make smoke rounds count as a medium sized soft cover that lasts for say 10 seconds or so (could have it linked to say half of the potential stun duration , and its area maybe 1 to 1.5x the size of the blast radius of a standard ap shell. could be used to let certain slow/non stealthy tanks take a position without getting spotted. or like i said in a more competitive situation , potentially bait people into thinking thats what your trying to do)
illumination rounds would have a similarly inverse effect,  maybe make the duration have a smaller multiplier than the smoke so it doesnt exactly completely stop a position from being useful for too long but it could be used to negate a fixed % of camo based on the caliber of the gun (bigger gun = brighter light = more camo negation) could be used to make spotting tanks in a known position significantly easier, like tds camping behind 3 bushes


Edited by Burhead06, Mar 09 2020 - 05:21.


guynodens #11 Posted Mar 10 2020 - 00:36

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Generally speaking the reason I like the FV304 is because it doesn't have a big dumb gun that hits you for a whole ton of damage from a mile away, that's what I mean. 

 

It has a smaller caliber gun that hits for less, and doesnt' really stun or splash. That's what i'm trying to emphasize, is that it gets to be a more active tank that uses a more active role other than RNGing for a massive splash hit, and is also closer so tanks have a real chance at killing it before the end of the game. 

 

I do support the idea of alternative shells again though; I think just having explosive shells means arty are useless at shotgunning tanks which means they're totally defenseless when being rushed. 



guynodens #12 Posted Mar 10 2020 - 00:36

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View PostWhistling_Death_, on Mar 08 2020 - 21:32, said:

Every battle, without fail, my artillery is outnumbered by 12-14 tanks! It's not faiiirrrrrr! Tanks are broken and need to be removed from the game! There should be a limit of one tank per battle! I'm telling mommy Wargaming! It's not faiiiirrrrrrr mommmyyy!!!”    :arta:


 I don't recall saying that lol



Burhead06 #13 Posted Mar 10 2020 - 04:35

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View Postguynodens, on Mar 09 2020 - 23:36, said:

Generally speaking the reason I like the FV304 is because it doesn't have a big dumb gun that hits you for a whole ton of damage from a mile away, that's what I mean. 

 

It has a smaller caliber gun that hits for less, and doesnt' really stun or splash. That's what i'm trying to emphasize, is that it gets to be a more active tank that uses a more active role other than RNGing for a massive splash hit, and is also closer so tanks have a real chance at killing it before the end of the game. 

 

I do support the idea of alternative shells again though; I think just having explosive shells means arty are useless at shotgunning tanks which means they're totally defenseless when being rushed. 

the whole point of the arty and the way they are designed is that they are defenseless when rushed , they have that one shotgun shot to kill a low hp and/or low armor  tank. and them being an offensive based tank has proven to be cancerous for gameplay. so if their original purpose is/was to prevent hard camping , then give them tools to break camps in the form of negating camo or granting it in different scenarios  allowing people to break camps in the form of helping to spot the camping tanks, or allowing your allies to move into a position to more effectively break the camp. making more arty a smaller caliber with higher rof wouldn't really fix the issue at its core. because those lower caliber guns with their he shells wont really do anything to the bigger beefier tanks at higher tiers. and they would be even more annoying/cancer to deal with  in the more lightly armored tanks.

imagine trying to play hull down in your kranvagn and you get pelted for 250-300 damage every 15 seconds by an accurate fast firing arty.
or conversely imagine trying to do anything to that annoying maus in your arty but only able to do double digit instances of damage if that



mworthy #14 Posted Mar 10 2020 - 04:55

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View PostBurhead06, on Mar 08 2020 - 23:09, said:

you cant have the best of both worlds so they say. if you want the added fucntions of being a support class you cant be dumping on  people for half their health.
and easy. if you assist in something being spotted with illumination rounds , you get spotting assist  points, that covers the majority of getting xp. the smoke rounds would be more of a tactical use to help allies sneak around, or bait people into thinking you are doing that.

keep in mind im not saying neuter arty damage , just effectively lower it , can be in the form of reducing pen so you dont get full pens on as many things , you 'd still get your full pens on paper tanks like a grille skorpion etc... just no more chunking a jpe for 1k damage because you hit the top/side of the tank

as far as the ammo rework would go , i'd say remove premium he rounds , maybe nerf the pen on standard he ammo for the desired effect stated above , add the illumination round as the new "premium" round as its probably what would see the most use between that and smoke rounds in pubbies, and make smoke rounds fill the third ammo slot thats rarely used in any arty piece. make smoke rounds count as a medium sized soft cover that lasts for say 10 seconds or so (could have it linked to say half of the potential stun duration , and its area maybe 1 to 1.5x the size of the blast radius of a standard ap shell. could be used to let certain slow/non stealthy tanks take a position without getting spotted. or like i said in a more competitive situation , potentially bait people into thinking thats what your trying to do)
illumination rounds would have a similarly inverse effect,  maybe make the duration have a smaller multiplier than the smoke so it doesnt exactly completely stop a position from being useful for too long but it could be used to negate a fixed % of camo based on the caliber of the gun (bigger gun = brighter light = more camo negation) could be used to make spotting tanks in a known position significantly easier, like tds camping behind 3 bushes


ignore this comment, i did not like how i wrote it


Edited by mworthy, Mar 10 2020 - 04:59.


Burhead06 #15 Posted Mar 10 2020 - 06:00

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View Postmworthy, on Mar 10 2020 - 03:55, said:


ignore this comment, i did not like how i wrote it

i wasn't aware you wrong the post i made



guynodens #16 Posted Mar 10 2020 - 07:56

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imagine trying to play hull down in your kranvagn and you get pelted for 250-300 damage every 15 seconds by an accurate fast firing arty.
or conversely imagine trying to do anything to that annoying maus in your arty but only able to do double digit instances of damage if that

 

I think most people would actually prefer this. People complain CONSTANTLY about arty dumping a huge amount of damage into them from one shot because they happened to pull out of cover for a second and the arty planned and knocks off half of their health. If arty has to land more hits, it means they have to consistently hit to do damage. They have to be more engaged, and be exposed longer. They can't relocate after every shot, which makes them more vulnerable to counter-battery fire because they're more likely to be in the same place.

 

In addition, doing less damage doesnt' necessarily mean more accurate. This goes along with the Maus thing. You can reduce damage without making it useless if your rate of fire is higher, and your accuracy doesnt' necessarily have to increase all that much, or at all. 

View PostBurhead06, on Mar 10 2020 - 04:35, said:

the whole point of the arty and the way they are designed is that they are defenseless when rushed , they have that one shotgun shot to kill a low hp and/or low armor  tank. and them being an offensive based tank has proven to be cancerous for gameplay. 

 

I mean lets be clear, people will say arty is bad for the game no matter what you do with it. 

 

I DO agree that giving arty HEAT rounds and them just dumping 1000 pts. with a direct hit was garbage, so personally I support arty getting AP rounds, but they can't use the overhead view when they fire them. Arty getting AP rounds and a normal zoom function when they use them would give them more flexibility. This has the dual purpose of making them more fun and engaging to play, but also means that arty won't necessarily be using the overhead view, so if an arty is doing TD mode, they're not supporting the team. It's a trade-off they'd have to manage. And with their terrible accuracy and RoF, they'd still be worse at direct damage than TDs or some Heavies. 



Burhead06 #17 Posted Mar 10 2020 - 17:58

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View Postguynodens, on Mar 10 2020 - 06:56, said:

 

I think most people would actually prefer this. People complain CONSTANTLY about arty dumping a huge amount of damage into them from one shot because they happened to pull out of cover for a second and the arty planned and knocks off half of their health. If arty has to land more hits, it means they have to consistently hit to do damage. They have to be more engaged, and be exposed longer. They can't relocate after every shot, which makes them more vulnerable to counter-battery fire because they're more likely to be in the same place.

 

In addition, doing less damage doesnt' necessarily mean more accurate. This goes along with the Maus thing. You can reduce damage without making it useless if your rate of fire is higher, and your accuracy doesnt' necessarily have to increase all that much, or at all. 

 

I mean lets be clear, people will say arty is bad for the game no matter what you do with it. 

 

I DO agree that giving arty HEAT rounds and them just dumping 1000 pts. with a direct hit was garbage, so personally I support arty getting AP rounds, but they can't use the overhead view when they fire them. Arty getting AP rounds and a normal zoom function when they use them would give them more flexibility. This has the dual purpose of making them more fun and engaging to play, but also means that arty won't necessarily be using the overhead view, so if an arty is doing TD mode, they're not supporting the team. It's a trade-off they'd have to manage. And with their terrible accuracy and RoF, they'd still be worse at direct damage than TDs or some Heavies. 

my point with the kran reference was that if you give the arty a smaller gun with higher rof , its either going to completely crapon literally anything that it can do damage to , or its going to be completely useless to anything with decent amounts of armor. theres a reason high tier arty have big guns. also what are you going to do remake history and put a small dinky gun on a high tier artillery piece?  as unrealistic as the game is , it still follows the "realism" to a certain degree , i.e. a t92 still has the 240mm it had in reality.  the maus has the 128 it had in reality. i dont think they are ever going to just replace the 240 on a t92 for example with a smaller gun to make that idea work.

and sure in theory they'd have to "be more active" or "be more at risk" because they'd spend more time firing and less time relocating , but in reality most arty players dont relocate after every shot, because most of the time that would risk them getting spotted. most arty (keep in mind i say most not all) arty players dont typically go to counter bat as their first move,  its usually more of a backup plan if they dont have anything else to shoot. the biggest reason a tank like the fv relocates constantly is because its lack of range more than anything else. 

and giving arty ap rounds is going to do 1 of two things , its either going to have the effect that the ap rounds in the test server had , which was that they were utterly useless because their damage per shot was too low and the consistency was garbage. or it'll go the opposite way and they will  do so much damage that they are broken.



mworthy #18 Posted Mar 11 2020 - 23:15

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View PostBurhead06, on Mar 10 2020 - 00:00, said:

i wasn't aware you wrong the post i made


i just posted that i did not believe that arty was capable of dealing 1k damage based on my and my grandpa's expierence with arty, he stopped playing once his reaction time was too slow even for arty. i didn't like how i worded it


Edited by mworthy, Mar 11 2020 - 23:16.


Burhead06 #19 Posted Mar 12 2020 - 02:46

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View Postmworthy, on Mar 11 2020 - 22:15, said:


i just posted that i did not believe that arty was capable of dealing 1k damage based on my and my grandpa's expierence with arty, he stopped playing once his reaction time was too slow even for arty. i didn't like how i worded it

considering on multiple occasions on stream ive seen a conq gc hit a jpe for that much within the past few months i'd say its possible. (again it requires hitting them in the side/rear) but my point was that even if you hit a jpe on the side flat on , you shouldnt get full pens if they do decide to actually make arty more of a support class







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