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Chieftain needs to be addressed


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Poll: Should the Chieftain be nerfed/removed? (23 members have cast votes)

Should the Chieftain be nerfed/removed?

  1. Shame on WG for even putting this tank in the game (8 votes [34.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.78%

  2. It needs be hit with a nerf bat like it was a german tank (2 votes [8.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.70%

  3. It needs a small nerf (3 votes [13.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.04%

  4. Nothing wrong here, working as intended (10 votes [43.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.48%

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Carchost0 #1 Posted Mar 17 2020 - 19:16

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Dear Chieftain owners, thank you to the majority of you that keep the tank in your garage and only take it out for clan wars / other competitive modes, however some of you feel the need to go spam full gold in pub matches and rack out 9k+ damage and absolutely ruin peoples day. Why would WG ever allow this? The they removed jagdpanzer-e100 and it had a lower win rate!!!!!!!

Kharah #2 Posted Mar 17 2020 - 19:29

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I'm pretty sure you mean the Waffenträger auf E 100, but still, a fair point. The reason the Waffenträger was removed, was not because of its win rate, but because of its absolutely broken gun. Wargaming already tried to balance it by removing a shell from its 12,8 cm autoloader's clip, but it could still eliminate almost every tank in the game with a single clip, with exception of tanks like the Type 5 Heavy and Maus.

 

The Chieftain is basically a better Super Conqueror, with a slightly more derpy gun. The main reason it's so good is that it has the combination of things that are good in today's meta, and though it's the superior tank to the Super Conqueror, the players who own it are also much better than your average Super Conqueror player. These are players who know the mechanics of the game and know how to lead a push and punish mistakes the enemy makes. I won't argue it's not an overpowered tank, but please consider that bad players will still achieve terrible results in the tank, even with full improved equipment and a full premium ammo loadout. It's just that the tank is so good, that the better you are as a player, the more game-breaking you can be yourself.


Edited by Kharah, Mar 17 2020 - 19:30.


Burhead06 #3 Posted Mar 17 2020 - 20:31

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the tank is good , its definitely on the end of the spectrum where the tanks feels op. but in the end of the day. the reason it feels more op than it is, is because a majority of people who own the tank are good enough at the game to play it to its strengths. instead of derp around like a potato. if only good players were allowed to play a 140, you'd say the tanks broken because every time you see it , it does well , and its average stats would be through the roof. the biggest reason its considered better than a sconq is its faster , and its turret is a bit better. it has a worse gun, it just gets to use its gun more consistently because it gets into the positions where its useful more often. 

Volcanic_lobster_220 #4 Posted Mar 17 2020 - 21:33

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View PostBurhead06, on Mar 17 2020 - 14:31, said:

the tank is good , its definitely on the end of the spectrum where the tanks feels op. but in the end of the day. the reason it feels more op than it is, is because a majority of people who own the tank are good enough at the game to play it to its strengths. instead of derp around like a potato. if only good players were allowed to play a 140, you'd say the tanks broken because every time you see it , it does well , and its average stats would be through the roof. the biggest reason its considered better than a sconq is its faster , and its turret is a bit better. it has a worse gun, it just gets to use its gun more consistently because it gets into the positions where its useful more often. 

 

Amazing, every word of what you just said, was wrong.

 

Was the Object 268 V4 Overpowered when it was released or was it just played by good players too? and the Type 5 heavy? and FV4005?-

 

Are you telling me the T95/FV4201 Chieftain is NOT broken? Then why do i need see non-unicums/players with average stats (48%) in the Chieftain at the TOP of the post-game stats? i guess they don't exist huh, or maybe when a tank is better than every Tier 10 tank in the game, there's a problem with it.



Carchost0 #5 Posted Mar 18 2020 - 03:52

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View PostBurhead06, on Mar 17 2020 - 19:31, said:

the tank is good , its definitely on the end of the spectrum where the tanks feels op. but in the end of the day. the reason it feels more op than it is, is because a majority of people who own the tank are good enough at the game to play it to its strengths. instead of derp around like a potato. if only good players were allowed to play a 140, you'd say the tanks broken because every time you see it , it does well , and its average stats would be through the roof. the biggest reason its considered better than a sconq is its faster , and its turret is a bit better. it has a worse gun, it just gets to use its gun more consistently because it gets into the positions where its useful more often. 

 

Ummmm? No...if you put even the most average (not full window lickers, but player who has actually been down 2-3 lines and grasps the idea of hull down) would still turn in great games (not the 9k team carry by streamers but solid games with 55-60% winrates). However there are no average players, they are all clan war elites, taking a great tank to OP. 

I absolutely disagree if the same elite player base were playing the super conq vs all the other great tanks (277, 430u etc.) they would not be having the games they do in the chieftian, no one would be calling it OP.

 

But we will never know because 99% will never have a reasonable chance to get one, so this will remain an overpowered tank amplified by extremely skilled players absolutely dominating pub matches. 



Burhead06 #6 Posted Mar 18 2020 - 04:42

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View PostCarchost0, on Mar 18 2020 - 02:52, said:

 

Ummmm? No...if you put even the most average (not full window lickers, but player who has actually been down 2-3 lines and grasps the idea of hull down) would still turn in great games (not the 9k team carry by streamers but solid games with 55-60% winrates). However there are no average players, they are all clan war elites, taking a great tank to OP. 

I absolutely disagree if the same elite player base were playing the super conq vs all the other great tanks (277, 430u etc.) they would not be having the games they do in the chieftian, no one would be calling it OP.

 

But we will never know because 99% will never have a reasonable chance to get one, so this will remain an overpowered tank amplified by extremely skilled players absolutely dominating pub matches. 

so you agree that the tank is good not op, and its just that most of the people playing it are good at the game so they make it look op on a more consistent basis than tech tree tanks. 
i also didnt say if people were in the sconq because its not remotely as flexible as the chief is because its not mobile enough , which is why i used something like the 140 as my example. and yes , if you only saw say 2k+ wn8 players ever play a 140, it'd look infinitely better than it does now.

and i doubt people with 2 or 3 tier 10s are going to get a 60+% win rate and have consistent great games in the chief. 1 because they probably wouldn't get one in the first place. and two . most people who only have 2 or 3 tier 10s are still learning the game alot with how fast you can get tier 10s currently. if this was 5 years ago i'd probably agree with you more if nothing else purely because the volume of games needed to be played to be able to get 10s then compared to now.

and i vehemently disagree with that last sentiment.  the biggest hurdle players have with getting a tank is putting in the effort to find a clan that actually does CW. and i dont mean getting good enough at the game to join a clan (because you dont need to be a 2k wn8 player to get into a clan that can get you a tank) but actually just going out and looking for a clan thats even semi organized. people will join complete crapclans for CW (not to talk crap about clans , but theres a big diff between being a nice clan, and being able to do CW)



Burhead06 #7 Posted Mar 18 2020 - 04:46

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View PostVolcanic_lobster_220, on Mar 17 2020 - 20:33, said:

 

Amazing, every word of what you just said, was wrong.

 

Was the Object 268 V4 Overpowered when it was released or was it just played by good players too? and the Type 5 heavy? and FV4005?-

 

Are you telling me the T95/FV4201 Chieftain is NOT broken? Then why do i need see non-unicums/players with average stats (48%) in the Chieftain at the TOP of the post-game stats? i guess they don't exist huh, or maybe when a tank is better than every Tier 10 tank in the game, there's a problem with it.

well maybe the reason those 48% players are top of the score board is because they are people who only know how to farm damage at the end of a game , so their wn8 and dpg is high but their winrate is garbage.
its a good tank, said that before , but people act like its just the strongest tank ever released in the game and that it 1v10s etc...



Carchost0 #8 Posted Mar 18 2020 - 21:55

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View PostBurhead06, on Mar 18 2020 - 03:42, said:

so you agree that the tank is good not op, and its just that most of the people playing it are good at the game so they make it look op on a more consistent basis than tech tree tanks. 
i also didnt say if people were in the sconq because its not remotely as flexible as the chief is because its not mobile enough , which is why i used something like the 140 as my example. and yes , if you only saw say 2k+ wn8 players ever play a 140, it'd look infinitely better than it does now.

and i doubt people with 2 or 3 tier 10s are going to get a 60+% win rate and have consistent great games in the chief. 1 because they probably wouldn't get one in the first place. and two . most people who only have 2 or 3 tier 10s are still learning the game alot with how fast you can get tier 10s currently. if this was 5 years ago i'd probably agree with you more if nothing else purely because the volume of games needed to be played to be able to get 10s then compared to now.

and i vehemently disagree with that last sentiment.  the biggest hurdle players have with getting a tank is putting in the effort to find a clan that actually does CW. and i dont mean getting good enough at the game to join a clan (because you dont need to be a 2k wn8 player to get into a clan that can get you a tank) but actually just going out and looking for a clan thats even semi organized. people will join complete crapclans for CW (not to talk crap about clans , but theres a big diff between being a nice clan, and being able to do CW)

I was going to argue and I had a whole argument lined up but I checked your stats and found ..... that an above average player (nice recent!) can still only average 1900 damage and 50% winrate in the chieftain. Although you only have 6 games...so???? 



Burhead06 #9 Posted Mar 19 2020 - 00:06

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im an average player , i havn't played the chief too much because i haven't played the game too much, and if anything that just proves my point. if you put an average player in the tank it doesnt look nearly as op as people act like it does.

unless your trying to bait me into trying to defend myself claiming im an amazing player, which i know im not.

and 6 games is not a big enough sample size to prove my point or your own in reality because.... its only 6 games.

so???? i dont get what point your attempting to make.

the tank is good, i dont have too much practice in it because yes i roughly know how to play hull down , im more used to something like the emil or kran which have their turret a lil higher off the ground and more forward on the hull. so they are able to take certain hills that are not as safe for the chief because while yes it does have a very strong turret (like the kran or emil's) its lower to the ground and the turret is more centered in the tank , meaning theres more hull infront of the turret so you cant peak certain hills quite as safely. which is something i learned first few games.

but again , its not impossible to get for an average player , just get your averages/recents to 1300+ which is not a huge ask for people, even your overall is something like 1230 and you clearly are not trying to raise your stats, but i digress , just get your overall/recents to a level that shows you are not a complete potato , learn to listen and follow calls from your caller regardless of if you "think" its not the best play. because the most important thing for clan wars for most people is having viable tanks, following the callers calls, and being able to actually pen your shots when you have said shots to take, and none of these are extremely hard to do even for average players. theres more to the equation when your looking at higher end clans and players etc... but thats not something a majority of people really need to worry themselves about.


as a side note though, if the main complaint for the chief is that its turret is too strong and it has no "realistic" weakspot , and its dpm is good , why are people not crying bloody murder about the kranvagn? its faster , higher hp/t , higher top speed, better gun depression on arguably a better turret that actually has no effective weakspot  as its cupola is even smaller than the chief  and is basically not visible at all when hull down. and to top it off it has one of the dreaded op autoloaders that some people like to complain so much about (while i laugh at them for being uninformed) oh , it also has higher dpm than a chief too.
 

Edited by Burhead06, Mar 24 2020 - 01:44.





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