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[ S T ] Heavy tank rebalances!

KRZY Rebalance Changes tanks heavy tanks

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Einzelganger7 #21 Posted Mar 25 2020 - 23:48

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Mar 25 2020 - 09:36, said:

•           Е 75—from 36 deg/s to 28 deg/s;

•           E 75 verstärkteketten—from 39 deg/s to 30 deg/s;

 

I checked on the EU German forums and those are typos that got clarified and corrected, they are meant to be inverted numbers so they are buffs from 28º to 36º for the stock tracks and from 30º to 39º for the top tracks.

 

Source: http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/738491-neues-vom-supertest-anpassungen-an-schweren-panzern/


Edited by Einzelganger7, Mar 25 2020 - 23:50.


RodrigoTheOne #22 Posted Mar 26 2020 - 00:01

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This buff is interesting, but the gun Kw.K. 15 cm OL / 38 is a little disappointing due to its low penetration with the AP, it is very difficult to penetrate a tank, playing with the AP E-100 is already very expensive, buying APCR to have "decent" gameplay is depressing .

Unless APCR ammunition is nerfed and decrease its value...



Mikosah #23 Posted Mar 26 2020 - 01:37

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Generally speaking, I've become very wary of the new meta of slathering a ton of armor onto frontal profiles and essentially just balancing heavies against premium ammo directly. If the armor is balanced specifically against gold shells, then standard shells are removed from the equation and that's not a good thing. Weakspots should still exist, and if you need gold to pen it, then it isn't a weakspot. There's other ways to buff these tanks, even to buff their durability, without necessarily needing to change the armor. For instance you can increase the hit points or make the modules harder to break. Improving the mobility is also an option, as is focusing the buffs on the firepower. These tanks in particular would be much more attractive to play compared to their peers if they had an advantage as simple as high penetration. Rather than continuing the power-creep and the corridor meta by throwing more armor out there, counter it by getting more pen out there.

Tupinambis #24 Posted Mar 26 2020 - 02:49

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View PostMikosah, on Mar 26 2020 - 01:37, said:

Generally speaking, I've become very wary of the new meta of slathering a ton of armor onto frontal profiles and essentially just balancing heavies against premium ammo directly. If the armor is balanced specifically against gold shells, then standard shells are removed from the equation and that's not a good thing. Weakspots should still exist, and if you need gold to pen it, then it isn't a weakspot. There's other ways to buff these tanks, even to buff their durability, without necessarily needing to change the armor. For instance you can increase the hit points or make the modules harder to break. Improving the mobility is also an option, as is focusing the buffs on the firepower. These tanks in particular would be much more attractive to play compared to their peers if they had an advantage as simple as high penetration. Rather than continuing the power-creep and the corridor meta by throwing more armor out there, counter it by getting more pen out there.

I mean, you're right, but this is not a good example of that here.

The E-100's "police bar" on the turret and the LFP are still serious weakspots that didn't really get effectively buffed [tier 8 mediums will still pen the turret weakspot with standard AP]

The IS-4 got a turret roof weakspot removed, but the LFP and shoulder's didn't get changed at all. Most of the IS-4 changes weren't really getting rid of weakspots so much as making the "STRONG spots" worthwhile. It was kinda stupid driving an IS-4, balanced as a heavy armored slug kinda similar to the Maus, and then suddenly everyone was just slamming straight through the UFP with no effort. 



Mermaid_Witch #25 Posted Mar 26 2020 - 13:24

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Anyone remember when armor profiles were actually based on history and not on "what imaginary number can we paint on the tank to make it bounce a 300 pen HEAT round that we refuse to nerf because reasons"?  Weren't those great times?  But I guess painstakingly changing the armor value on the tank and tweaking it for days on end to make sure it works just as intended is a lot harder then reducing the number on that 300 pen HEAT round to 250 or so.  I can only imagine they'd have to go through each and every person's account, choose every single 300 pen HEAT round individually, and then have to slowly type in the number "250" in the penetration value.  And having to do that for hundreds of thousands of individual rounds would be a LOT harder than slathering magical armor onto the tank. 

SKurj #26 Posted Mar 26 2020 - 13:40

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my only concern...    balancing these lines, then revisiting the other lines...  is that just going to lead to this same situation when the next round of buffs come along to their competition?

 

Wouldn't it make more sense to do them together?

 

Now I play my e100 rarely, as yup I rarely last long being penned by everything... Why not do the same with the e100 as being done to the is4?  why delete weakpoints from one but not the other?

1110e5.. researched and never bought due to the tumor on top...



SpectreHD #27 Posted Mar 26 2020 - 14:39

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View PostMermaid_Witch, on Mar 26 2020 - 20:24, said:

Anyone remember when armor profiles were actually based on history and not on "what imaginary number can we paint on the tank to make it bounce a 300 pen HEAT round that we refuse to nerf because reasons"?  Weren't those great times?  But I guess painstakingly changing the armor value on the tank and tweaking it for days on end to make sure it works just as intended is a lot harder then reducing the number on that 300 pen HEAT round to 250 or so.  I can only imagine they'd have to go through each and every person's account, choose every single 300 pen HEAT round individually, and then have to slowly type in the number "250" in the penetration value.  And having to do that for hundreds of thousands of individual rounds would be a LOT harder than slathering magical armor onto the tank. 

 

Yeah I remember and the game's balance is worse now because we have the majority of tanks still balanced around their armour being as historical as possible playing with tanks with fantasy armour.

 

View PostKRZYBooP, on Mar 25 2020 - 23:36, said:

Howdy Boom Jockeys! 

 

WG, why oh why can't you just NERF gold rounds? You guys spent more than TWO years on it starting with making Gold rounds only purchasable with credits. The justification was to deplete Gold bought Gold rounds out of the player's account. But then you guys come up with the most nonsensical method of addressing Gold rounds. By changing everything else and even have to make a new stat page to accommodate such a massive change to gameplay this late in this game's life only to not do anything in the end because you "listen" to our feedback. I am glad this nonsensical "change" to premium ammo didn't go through but that means so much wasted time not addressing premium ammo. And in the same time, you added more and more tanks with fantasy armour in the game further compounding the balance issues Gold ammo created.

 

Since Closed beta and until the majority of this game's life, tanks were balanced around to fixed stats. Their armour and gun depression. This attachment to historical accuracy is probably one the main reasons this game is even noticed outside of Russia and has spawned great communities and historical researchers that work for WG for FREE. WG back then had great connections with this communities because they all work together to make a better game.

 

But since you guys had the mental brilliance to hire someone that drove straight into a wall with an ATV to be in charge of balance, have screwed balance even further. What did we get from that guy? Overbuffed armour on the Maus and Type 4/5 and out of nowhere decided to buff the gun depression of the Conqueror and the new Super Conqueror with -10 degrees when the Conqueror had -7. Just that one move completely made the M103 and T110E5 irrelevant. You guys can't even give the T110E5 -10 degrees of gun depression despite the fact that the T110 proposals all specified for -10 gun depression.

 

So in your effort to make armour relevant again, you guys have effectively made some of the most BS vehicles in the game that to fight against required MORE gold ammo spam and made existing tanks irrelevant.

 

At this point, just making standard ammo do more damage/premium ammo do less damage is not enough considering how screwed up balance is now. What made balancing with as historical as possible armour and gun depression was that it gave a fixed starting point for all tanks to be balanced by.

 

WG needs to severely nerf premium ammo into just an alternate ammo type. APCR being faster shell velocity, HEAT not losing penetration over range and having better shell normalisation but having only a little bit more penetration and a little less damage than standard ammo. By basically reducing the effectiveness of a former pay to win mechanic, you would help all the slow and armoured vehicles in the game.

 

The main take away is that we can and should return balancing to how it was for the majority of this game's life and the majority of tanks in this game and revert some of the excessive armour buffs the Type 4/5 heavy and Maus received. As historical armour as possible (I know they are exceptions) and gun depression. These two stats actually give every tank a distinct characteristic. There are many other hard and soft stats that could be balanced if either armour or gun depression was lacking. For example the Conqueror had better DPM and soft stats compared to the M103 because it had 1 degree less of gun depression.

 

With this proposed buffs, it is indeed exciting to see buffs to these vehicles but this is merely treating the symptom. Just slapping more armour is just pure laziness and just further cause issues of power creep and cause players in the lower tiers a harder time, and would just cause more Gold rounds spam. The skill with using the E100 back then before every tomato and unicum were spamming gold rounds was learning to angle the turret. It provided dynamic gameplay as a player must choose between survivability or causing damage. There was skill back then in using armour effectively. Now it is load premium ammo and the tank with the better gun handling and mobility wins out.

 

NERF premium ammo, return armour to be as historical as possible and look into vehicles buffed and introduced from the point WG decided to make armour a balanceable stat. It is not going to be easy as WG spent too much time digging this hole but it sure as hell won't take 2 years of nothing to show for.

 

Other balance issues I want to highlight is the HP of TDs especially those at under Tier IX. There is no reason why they should have such low HP compared to mediums and heavies. There was a reason why it was so and that's because TDs had better camo after firing. But considering that has been removed, there is no reason their HP should be this low. At this point, they should have HP equivalent to mediums or heavies depending on the chassis of the TD. Considering the majority of TDs have no turret which is a major factor in how good a vehicle is, I feel this is a reasonable request.

 

On a more personal note, CAN WE PLEASE stop making US vehicles into reward tanks or premiums?! Can we also stop the bastardisation of the US tree and in general what historical accuracy is left in this game? Why in the world is the T54E1 being turned into a heavy? To be more in line with your fake M54 Renegade that was made a heavy so you can charge us more money? The US tree can have multiple medium lines but it seems that privilege only belongs to the Russian tree. You guys can't even give the US tree their iconic Cold War 1960 medium tank, the M60A1, despite blundering and making the M60 slick into a CW reward all those years ago. The M60A1 could have been the better vehicle to replace the M48 but instead you guys opted to implement the M48A5 with fantasy armour and a turret from the mid 1970s. As a whole, the entire US tree needs to be looked at. The T30 should be restored to its rightful place as a Tier X heavy.

 

I've been with this game since Closed Beta, before there was even a US server, the first batch of players that spent money on this game, when your CEO said they would never sell the M6A2E1 ever ever ever again and it saddens and angers me to see how balance is being run into ground. The only thing you guys can actually improve is the graphics. It is telling how poor the balance is in this game when WoT can't even be taken seriously in the eSport scene and the failed WGL when games that are as old as WoT garner millions of views during their eSport tournaments. Your game is not the global phenomenon your website boasts and honestly everyone in Minsk needs to take a good look at themselves. The same for WGNA. You need to look at yourselves to see if you guys actually care about your players and are working hard enough to represent our interests to Minsk. At this point it looks like no.


Edited by SpectreHD, Today, 02:45 AM.


Mermaid_Witch #28 Posted Mar 26 2020 - 15:07

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View PostSpectreHD, on Mar 26 2020 - 08:39, said:

 Your game is not the global phenomenon your website boasts and honestly everyone in Minsk needs to take a good look at themselves. The same for WGNA. You need to look at yourselves to see if you guys actually care about your players and are working hard enough to represent our interests to Minsk. At this point it looks like no.

 

This is the most important part.  If nothing else, you need to have those rose-colored glasses surgically removed from your head and take an honest look at your company and your game.  You guys are failures.  You're satisfied to be making "good for Russia" money when you could be making "League of Legends" money.  You see "15k players at peak in the United States" and think "Wow! We're a global phenomenon!"  You should be asking "How can we bring in more players" instead of asking "how can we milk the remaining players for cash?"  You guys had a Fabergé Egg going, but then your company evidently decided "you know what would look cool?  If a 2 year old took a sharpie and started scribbling on this egg".  You don't need to make a new game to appeal to "Western audiences", you need to pull your head out and make your existing game more appealing to Western audiences.

 

And just to add to the irony, you make a new website about the history behind the tanks... when you as a company don't give enough of a crap about the history behind the tanks to bother making sure that the tanks in-game are correct.


Edited by Mermaid_Witch, Mar 26 2020 - 15:13.






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