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Rigged RNG Credits Experience anonymisor stats consumables equipment winrate

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alb #1 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 00:19

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Just some thoughts...

 

The game has changed over the years and without doubt consumables and equipment are now a very important part of the game. Injury to crew members, module damage (including turret popping) to vehicles is much more common now than before. So if you don't purchase consumables or equipment your at a big disadvantage. Therefore, it makes sense that RNG has been intentionally changed for better or worse.

 

At the end of the day, frustration in the game is mainly caused due to either maintaining stats, insufficient credits, experience earned or simply not winning.

 

IMO each of the causes can be fixed in the game.

 

For new players, the lack of the right amount of free garage slots, free barrack spaces, credits grind, experience grind and not winning is likely to make players quit the game. If new players don't join plus stick playing or if old timers leave then the game will die.

 

I think wargaming are right on some issues (eg. blueprints etc) but are wrong on others, such as anonymisor which is statistically a fail, as clearly the larger player base thinks the current stat system external stat system is good.


Edited by alb, Apr 04 2020 - 01:10.


Korvick #2 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 00:34

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View Postalb, on Apr 03 2020 - 23:19, said:

Just some thoughts...

 

The game has changed over the years and without doubt consumables and equipment are now a very important part of the game. Injury to crew members, module damage (including turret popping) to vehicles is much more common now than before. So if you don't purchase consumables or equipment your at a big disadvantage. Therefore, it makes sense that RNG has been intentionally changed for better or worse.

 

At the end of the day, frustration in the game is mainly caused due to either maintaining stats, insufficient credits, experience earned or simply not winning.

 

IMO each of the causes can be fixed in the game.

 

For new players, the lack of the right amount of free garage slots, free barrack spaces, credits grind, experience grind and not winning is likely to make players quit the game. If new players don't join plus stick playing or if old timers leave then the game will die.

 

I think wargaming are right on some issues (eg. blueprints etc) but are wrong on others, such as anonymisor which is statistically a fail, as clearly the larger player base thinks the current stat system is good.

 

Just to note about the Garage slots and Barracks, and grind.

 

Its now easier than ever to get all the above.  I have a welfare warrior account, zero money spent on it ever.  And in the last year alone I've manged to get over 20 free garage slots.  I've also easily worked my way up to tier 7 on multiple branches.  Which isn't bad for an account with only a few thousand games and no money spent.

 

I also have no idea why anonymiser has anything to do with stats.  The majority of the playerbase wouldn't even know what it is.  I didn't until I read it in these forums and I've been playing since beta.

 



cloudwalkr #3 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 00:50

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bud,

 

Equipment and consumables have always been important.

 

Game has changed, yup.  You've still always been at a huge disadvantage without equipment and consumables.  

 

At the end of the day, all those frustrations you listed can be directed towards the player.  Maintaining stats = continue to play with improvement in mind.  Insufficient credits - play any one of the modes available in the past year.  Frontline earns millions of credits alone.  XP and winning are both connected and boil down to the players consistency. 

If you consistently perform well, you'll win more and earn more XP.  If you constantly underperform and die early or without doing anything - you'll win less and earn less XP.

 

IMO...each of these can be in the players hands.  The game has problems, sure, but the things you listed are more on the players shoulders than anything else.  It's the easiest time in the games history to earn XP and credits.  Winning is on you, the player.

 

New player experience is pretty rough, I agree.  

 

The anonymizer is a fail because it does nothing to stop what most who asked for something like it want stopped - XVM focus by arty and other griefers.  If WG hid stats while in matches...I think overall more people would be happy.

 

Where is the rigging?



alb #4 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 00:55

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View PostKorvick, on Apr 04 2020 - 00:34, said:

 

Just to note about the Garage slots and Barracks, and grind.

 

Its now easier than ever to get all the above.  I have a welfare warrior account, zero money spent on it ever.  And in the last year alone I've manged to get over 20 free garage slots.  I've also easily worked my way up to tier 7 on multiple branches.  Which isn't bad for an account with only a few thousand games and no money spent.

 

I also have no idea why anonymiser has anything to do with stats.  The majority of the playerbase wouldn't even know what it is.  I didn't until I read it in these forums and I've been playing since beta.

 

 

I agree that right improvements have been made for new player base upto a certain very limited point. Low tier grinds are now becoming easier and faster, so the need for such as sufficient garage slots and barrack slots quickly is necessary for new players.

 

As I do believe that after one year of hard earning for over 20 garage slots is too late for many players who are not willing to spend real money for garage slots etc.

 

Anonymisor which is used to hide players username and external gaming stats...I say anonymisor is "statistically a fail" as only a minority of players use it, therefore in itself should mean something about the external gaming stats value.



FrozenKemp #5 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 01:04

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View Postalb, on Apr 03 2020 - 18:19, said:

Just some thoughts...

 

The game has changed over the years and without doubt consumables and equipment are now a very important part of the game. Injury to crew members, module damage (including turret popping) to vehicles is much more common now than before. So if you don't purchase consumables or equipment your at a big disadvantage. Therefore, it makes sense that RNG has been intentionally changed for better or worse.

 

At the end of the day, frustration in the game is mainly caused due to either maintaining stats, insufficient credits, experience earned or simply not winning.

 

IMO each of the causes can be fixed in the game.

 

For new players, the lack of the right amount of free garage slots, free barrack spaces, credits grind, experience grind and not winning is likely to make players quit the game. If new players don't join plus stick playing or if old timers leave then the game will die.

 

I think wargaming are right on some issues (eg. blueprints etc) but are wrong on others, such as anonymisor which is statistically a fail, as clearly the larger player base thinks the current stat system is good.

 

As others have said, consumables and equipment have always been important. Equipment can be expensive for a new player, but once you can afford them you should always use consumables.  My impression is that RNG has not changed.

 

The anonymizer has nothing to do with "the current stat system" so idk what you're talking about there. 



alb #6 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 01:09

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View PostFrozenKemp, on Apr 04 2020 - 01:04, said:

 

As others have said, consumables and equipment have always been important. Equipment can be expensive for a new player, but once you can afford them you should always use consumables.  My impression is that RNG has not changed.

 

The anonymizer has nothing to do with "the current stat system" so idk what you're talking about there. 

 

I agree that equipment and consumbales have always been important in terms of gameplay advantages but what I am highlighting, is that they are now "more" important than ever. For example due to easier module and crew damage etc.

 

"the current stat system" = external stat system provider


Edited by alb, Apr 04 2020 - 01:18.


ExploratorOne #7 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 02:10

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I have also found from playing a couple of Deputy events that playing a fully upgraded tank is significant and crew skills are very (very) important.  In some tanks it is like day and night when I go from a fully upgraded tank with all crew skills maxed out on the Deputy account to my paltry 3 or 4 skilled crews on my main account.  And grinding modules with a <1 skilled crew (but always sixth sense Commander) on my FTP account is painful, to say the least.

alb #8 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 02:35

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View PostExploratorOne, on Apr 04 2020 - 02:10, said:

I have also found from playing a couple of Deputy events that playing a fully upgraded tank is significant and crew skills are very (very) important.  In some tanks it is like day and night when I go from a fully upgraded tank with all crew skills maxed out on the Deputy account to my paltry 3 or 4 skilled crews on my main account.  And grinding modules with a <1 skilled crew (but always sixth sense Commander) on my FTP account is painful, to say the least.


Yeah, but I think wargaming are making right steps in making the game less painful. But even for premium account holders with premium tanks making min 45k+ credits per game will still unfortunately feel insufficient in this game.


Edited by alb, Apr 04 2020 - 02:37.


Korvick #9 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 02:36

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View Postalb, on Apr 03 2020 - 23:55, said:

 

I agree that right improvements have been made for new player base upto a certain very limited point. Low tier grinds are now becoming easier and faster, so the need for such as sufficient garage slots and barrack slots quickly is necessary for new players.

 

As I do believe that after one year of hard earning for over 20 garage slots is too late for many players who are not willing to spend real money for garage slots etc.

 

Anonymisor which is used to hide players username and external gaming stats...I say anonymisor is "statistically a fail" as only a minority of players use it, therefore in itself should mean something about the external gaming stats value.

 

Well, casual play for a few months and getting a dozen Garage slots is not that hard.  There was certainly no "hard earning" on the Welfare Warrior account I'm referring to.  Its not like I really wanted to spend any serious time on it.  This account is only there to prove you CAN play F2P and be competitive.



Korvick #10 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 02:42

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View Postalb, on Apr 04 2020 - 01:35, said:


Yeah, but I think wargaming are making right steps in making the game less painful. But even for premium account holders with premium tanks making min 45k+ credits per game will still unfortunately feel insufficient in this game.

 

Since their original and STATED intent was for people to LOSE money even with a premium account when playing in any tiers higher than 7, I think the money earning in the game right now is crazy generous.



alb #11 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 03:36

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View PostKorvick, on Apr 04 2020 - 02:42, said:

 

Since their original and STATED intent was for people to LOSE money even with a premium account when playing in any tiers higher than 7, I think the money earning in the game right now is crazy generous.

 

I knew before as the tiers went up the credits earnings potential decreased.

 

Clearly buying premium accounts for credits and experience earnings is insufficient at the moment especially if you play higher tiers as credits earnings is likely to be negative in higher tiers. This means wargaming are in effect holding back players from enjoying high tier gameplay fully - and premium account holders are classified as one form of paying customers - So as harsh as it sounds, if paying customers cannot fully enjoy the high tier gameplay fully who can?

 

Wargaming knew about the game economy and made the big effort to introduce through an indirect credit boost method for premium account holders in the form of credit reserves. This could have been done simply but not only that, they decided that the credit reserves should be capped at 750k credits for around every 7 day period. So clearly credits earning is an important consideration to wargaming, to state the obvious.

 

This means premium account holders are not able to enjoy higher tier gameplay fully to say the least, and F2P are feeling the grind too, then I think wargaming should re-review the level of pain inflicted on their gamers to see if adjustments is possible.



I_QQ_4_U #12 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 05:04

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When were consumables and equipment not important?

 

You can fix all those stated 'problems' by learning to play better.

 

Garage slots are hardly hard to come by unless you want to own every single tank there is.

 

The game isn't meant to be easy at higher tiers, it's kind of the whole point of the game as far as making money goes but anyone can easily play at the lower tiers even if they are F2P and not very good. They've consistently made the game easier and easier for new players but make it too easy and you'll just open the flood gates to the kind of people you don't want playing your game, those who don't have to put any effort into it and therefor have nothing to lose when they grief other players for fun.


Edited by I_QQ_4_U, Apr 04 2020 - 05:04.


Korvick #13 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 05:05

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View Postalb, on Apr 04 2020 - 02:36, said:

 

I knew before as the tiers went up the credits earnings potential decreased.

 

Clearly buying premium accounts for credits and experience earnings is insufficient at the moment especially if you play higher tiers as credits earnings is likely to be negative in higher tiers. This means wargaming are in effect holding back players from enjoying high tier gameplay fully - and premium account holders are classified as one form of paying customers - So as harsh as it sounds, if paying customers cannot fully enjoy the high tier gameplay fully who can?

 

Wargaming knew about the game economy and made the big effort to introduce through an indirect credit boost method for premium account holders in the form of credit reserves. This could have been done simply but not only that, they decided that the credit reserves should be capped at 750k credits for around every 7 day period. So clearly credits earning is an important consideration to wargaming, to state the obvious.

 

This means premium account holders are not able to enjoy higher tier gameplay fully to say the least, and F2P are feeling the grind too, then I think wargaming should re-review the level of pain inflicted on their gamers to see if adjustments is possible.

 

Their original intent was that EVERYBODY had to eventually go back to the mid tiers, 4-6 and play there to regenerate money.  Because this was where they felt their majority of f2p people would be.  And they wanted/needed a population there.  So after tier 6, you would lose money if you lost.  Would  break even if you won.  And after tier 7, you just lose money - UNLESS you were premium account or used a premium tank.  But you would still need a really really good win to make money in Tier 10.

 

I remember people debating about whether the Lowe (with its weak lower glacis) was worth the real world $.  But my friend Pat put it best.  "It prints credits, so who cares" :P

 

Now, I guess their player data shows that more people are playing at higher tiers so they've had to change the goalposts.

 



alb #14 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 12:36

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on Apr 04 2020 - 05:04, said:

When were consumables and equipment not important?

 

You can fix all those stated 'problems' by learning to play better.

 

Garage slots are hardly hard to come by unless you want to own every single tank there is.

 

The game isn't meant to be easy at higher tiers, it's kind of the whole point of the game as far as making money goes but anyone can easily play at the lower tiers even if they are F2P and not very good. They've consistently made the game easier and easier for new players but make it too easy and you'll just open the flood gates to the kind of people you don't want playing your game, those who don't have to put any effort into it and therefor have nothing to lose when they grief other players for fun.

 

View PostI_QQ_4_U, on Apr 04 2020 - 05:04, said:

When were consumables and equipment not important?

 

You can fix all those stated 'problems' by learning to play better.

 

Garage slots are hardly hard to come by unless you want to own every single tank there is.

 

The game isn't meant to be easy at higher tiers, it's kind of the whole point of the game as far as making money goes but anyone can easily play at the lower tiers even if they are F2P and not very good. They've consistently made the game easier and easier for new players but make it too easy and you'll just open the flood gates to the kind of people you don't want playing your game, those who don't have to put any effort into it and therefor have nothing to lose when they grief other players for fun.

 

Yeah, without doubt players can determine the outcome of each game - e.g. everyone going AFK no matter how many OP tanks or OP players you have you will still very likely lose, unless the other team decides its an ambush and camps for a draw for 15 minutes.

 

As with anything there will always be players who fall below and above the curve of average. But as this is a game, at the moment this point of average should be reviewed and adjusted based around the "problems" - share the winnings, credits, experience.

 



SKurj #15 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 13:58

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Wargaming's MM is the same in at least one other of their titles, and the shouting is not as loud over there but a similar thing is happening.

 

 


Edited by SKurj, Apr 04 2020 - 13:59.


_Kradok_ #16 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 14:04

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View Postalb, on Apr 03 2020 - 21:36, said:

 

I knew before as the tiers went up the credits earnings potential decreased.

 

Clearly buying premium accounts for credits and experience earnings is insufficient at the moment especially if you play higher tiers as credits earnings is likely to be negative in higher tiers. This means wargaming are in effect holding back players from enjoying high tier gameplay fully - and premium account holders are classified as one form of paying customers - So as harsh as it sounds, if paying customers cannot fully enjoy the high tier gameplay fully who can?

 

Wargaming knew about the game economy and made the big effort to introduce through an indirect credit boost method for premium account holders in the form of credit reserves. This could have been done simply but not only that, they decided that the credit reserves should be capped at 750k credits for around every 7 day period. So clearly credits earning is an important consideration to wargaming, to state the obvious.

 

This means premium account holders are not able to enjoy higher tier gameplay fully to say the least, and F2P are feeling the grind too, then I think wargaming should re-review the level of pain inflicted on their gamers to see if adjustments is possible.

 

They've inflicted pain upon us?

 

:facepalm:



F0R_M07H3R_RU5514 #17 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 14:06

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View PostKorvick, on Apr 03 2020 - 20:42, said:

 

Since their original and STATED intent was for people to LOSE money even with a premium account when playing in any tiers higher than 7, I think the money earning in the game right now is crazy generous.

 

As much as anything, I believe this is at the heart of player some dissatisfaction ... before the economy was revamped, you would commonly lose credits at Tier 8 unless you had a premium account.  Credit losses at Tier 9 and Tier 10 were almost guaranteed unless you were a very good player who understood weak spots (back when tanks had weak spots).

 

Post-economy changes, good players with premium account and boosters can grind credits at Tier 10 as long as they're not grinding marks and shooting full premium ammunition.  Marginal and low-skill players no longer fear losing credits at Tier 9 and Tier 10.



SKurj #18 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 14:08

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View PostF0R_M07H3R_RU5514, on Apr 04 2020 - 08:06, said:

 

As much as anything, I believe this is at the heart of player some dissatisfaction ... before the economy was revamped, you would commonly lose credits at Tier 8 unless you had a premium account.  Credit losses at Tier 9 and Tier 10 were almost guaranteed unless you were a very good player who understood weak spots (back when tanks had weak spots).

 

Post-economy changes, good players with premium account and boosters can grind credits at Tier 10 as long as they're not grinding marks and shooting full premium ammunition.  Marginal and low-skill players no longer fear losing credits at Tier 9 and Tier 10.

 

I was surprised to earn a little a tier 9 lately too.  Tier9 is looking better and better!  



_Kradok_ #19 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 14:14

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View PostF0R_M07H3R_RU5514, on Apr 04 2020 - 08:06, said:

 

As much as anything, I believe this is at the heart of player some dissatisfaction ... before the economy was revamped, you would commonly lose credits at Tier 8 unless you had a premium account.  Credit losses at Tier 9 and Tier 10 were almost guaranteed unless you were a very good player who understood weak spots (back when tanks had weak spots).

 

Post-economy changes, good players with premium account and boosters can grind credits at Tier 10 as long as they're not grinding marks and shooting full premium ammunition.  Marginal and low-skill players no longer fear losing credits at Tier 9 and Tier 10.


+1

 

Common sense logic.



WangOnTheLoose #20 Posted Apr 04 2020 - 14:22

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View Postalb, on Apr 03 2020 - 18:19, said:

Just some thoughts...

 

The game has changed over the years and without doubt consumables and equipment are now a very important part of the game. Injury to crew members, module damage (including turret popping) to vehicles is much more common now than before. So if you don't purchase consumables or equipment your at a big disadvantage. Therefore, it makes sense that RNG has been intentionally changed for better or worse.

 

At the end of the day, frustration in the game is mainly caused due to either maintaining stats, insufficient credits, experience earned or simply not winning.

 

IMO each of the causes can be fixed in the game.

 

For new players, the lack of the right amount of free garage slots, free barrack spaces, credits grind, experience grind and not winning is likely to make players quit the game. If new players don't join plus stick playing or if old timers leave then the game will die.

 

I think wargaming are right on some issues (eg. blueprints etc) but are wrong on others, such as anonymisor which is statistically a fail, as clearly the larger player base thinks the current stat system external stat system is good.

As others have said equipment, consumables, and good crews have always been important.  If you arent running all of those you are not going to be nearly as good as you would otherwise be.

 

I sort of agree with you on garage slots and barracks slots, after playing the game for a decent amount of time they are pretty easy to get but early on I think they lessen the enjoyment of the game for newcomers.  They really should just do away with both at this point.

 

Anonymizer, who cares.  You can see the persons name after the battle is over so I don't see how it changes anything.  If it breaks in game XVM stats and win chance I think its for the best.  I never saw a lot of people complaining about losing battles before they started but I haven't seen it at all since the anonymizer came into the game so I think it was a good addition.

 

The game is certainly entering its old age and is slowly dying.  Personally I do no think after 10 years they are going to change anything that will start bringing back new players.  There aren't exactly tens of thousands of players who are just waiting for that one change to come play this game.  It just isn't going to happen.  In all honesty my gut feeling is that the more changes they make the more likely they are to drive off current players.







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