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Zero is streaming the new premium, ISU-152k if anyone wants to see it in action


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ThePigSheFlies #1 Posted May 22 2020 - 21:59

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https://www.twitch.tv/zero_3marklegend

 

https://tanks.gg/tank/isu-152k

 

 



ThePigSheFlies #2 Posted May 22 2020 - 23:53

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stream over.  can watch the VOD - or more than likely your favorite CC will be streaming it on and off over the weekend.

bake3020 #3 Posted May 23 2020 - 02:43

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You can also watch the Raging Raptor on You Tube.

_Brew_ #4 Posted May 23 2020 - 02:58

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Don't you mean streaming the old tech tree tank that WG took away from everyone who had it for free, but are now going to sell as a premium?

Avalon304 #5 Posted May 23 2020 - 04:03

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View Post_Brew_, on May 22 2020 - 18:58, said:

Don't you mean streaming the old tech tree tank that WG took away from everyone who had it for free, but are now going to sell as a premium?

 

I mean... I still have my ISU-152... and outside of 26mm less pen... its pretty much exactly the same as it was when it had the BL-10. The gun handles exactly the same and realistically the extra 26mm of penetration really didnt mean much.



ThePigSheFlies #6 Posted May 23 2020 - 12:34

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View PostAvalon304, on May 22 2020 - 22:03, said:

 

I mean... I still have my ISU-152... and outside of 26mm less pen... its pretty much exactly the same as it was when it had the BL-10. The gun handles exactly the same and realistically the extra 26mm of penetration really didnt mean much.

 

premium 329 pen at tier 8, in a time when tier 8s are regularly straight 8 battles is literally LOL, and imho every person that buys this is telling wargaming that they support the BS of removing tech tree tanks only to allow people to buy them back with cash.

 

every time the game takes one step forward in one area I swear it falls down a flight of stairs backwards in others.  *mumbles loudly, but incoherently* - *shakes fist mightily* - *get off my lawn!*



Avalon304 #7 Posted May 23 2020 - 13:16

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on May 23 2020 - 04:34, said:

 

premium 329 pen at tier 8, in a time when tier 8s are regularly straight 8 battles is literally LOL, and imho every person that buys this is telling wargaming that they support the BS of removing tech tree tanks only to allow people to buy them back with cash.

 

every time the game takes one step forward in one area I swear it falls down a flight of stairs backwards in others.  *mumbles loudly, but incoherently* - *shakes fist mightily* - *get off my lawn!*

 

In tier 8 battles? 329 pen is unneeded. 286 is more than enough. 260 is more than enough. Like the penetration in tier 8 is mostly irrelevant above 260mm. And the 329 apcr really isnt giving you much more than 292 apcr in tier 10 matches. Im still gonna buy one, because I still love my tech tree 152, and a premium version of it will be grand. Plus its another ISU to 3 mark, so that'll be fun.



ThePigSheFlies #8 Posted May 23 2020 - 15:01

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View PostAvalon304, on May 23 2020 - 07:16, said:

 

In tier 8 battles? 329 pen is unneeded. 286 is more than enough. 260 is more than enough. Like the penetration in tier 8 is mostly irrelevant above 260mm. And the 329 apcr really isnt giving you much more than 292 apcr in tier 10 matches. Im still gonna buy one, because I still love my tech tree 152, and a premium version of it will be grand. Plus its another ISU to 3 mark, so that'll be fun.

 

I'm very much aware of what's needed vs not.  329 means you don't even have to aim at pretty much any tier 8 in 95% of the circumstances.  it basically turns every tier 8 into warm butter, and most tier 9s

 

I'm not saying it's going to be an overpowered tank by any stretch, I just find it hilarious that the BL10 was too strong for the tech tree so they released it in a cash-only option.

 

Anyway, I know folks that are probably going to buy it not for the 329 pen, but the 90 pen HE Memes...



Kliphie #9 Posted May 23 2020 - 16:07

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Wait, 152s have AP and APCR shells???

The_Pushok #10 Posted May 23 2020 - 17:46

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View PostKliphie, on May 23 2020 - 10:07, said:

Wait, 152s have AP and APCR shells???

The current tech tree ISU-152 does.



Avalon304 #11 Posted May 23 2020 - 22:18

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on May 23 2020 - 07:01, said:

 

I'm very much aware of what's needed vs not.  329 means you don't even have to aim at pretty much any tier 8 in 95% of the circumstances.  it basically turns every tier 8 into warm butter, and most tier 9s

 

I'm not saying it's going to be an overpowered tank by any stretch, I just find it hilarious that the BL10 was too strong for the tech tree so they released it in a cash-only option.

 

Anyway, I know folks that are probably going to buy it not for the 329 pen, but the 90 pen HE Memes...

 

286mm of pen allows you to pretty much not aim in 95% of situations... not sure why youre focusing on the premium pen.

 

And if people arent spamming HE in the tech tree ISU (which also has that 90mm pen HE) Im not sure theyre gonna care about it in the 152K either.

 

View PostKliphie, on May 23 2020 - 08:07, said:

Wait, 152s have AP and APCR shells???

 

Yes, both the ISU-152s have APCR as premium and AP as standard.



spud_tuber #12 Posted May 23 2020 - 22:39

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View PostKliphie, on May 23 2020 - 09:07, said:

Wait, 152s have AP and APCR shells???

Well, the BL-10 does, as well as whatever top gun the tech tree ISU-152 has now. The SU-152's gun gets HEAT instead of APCR, as do the 152mm guns at tier 10.  KV-2 gets premium AP instead of APCR.



ThePigSheFlies #13 Posted May 23 2020 - 23:21

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View PostAvalon304, on May 23 2020 - 16:18, said:

 

286mm of pen allows you to pretty much not aim in 95% of situations... not sure why youre focusing on the premium pen.

 

And if people arent spamming HE in the tech tree ISU (which also has that 90mm pen HE) Im not sure theyre gonna care about it in the 152K either.

 

 

 

I don't know what people are doing with the tech tree version, I haven't played it in forever.  and I'm not focusing on anything, I'm literally regurgitating what folks have said on streams...  (not just zero's) on why they're salivating at buying it

 

the game already has too many passive people imho, but I'll also repeat the obvious - the gun was deemed too strong for a tech tree version and removed - but it's plenty fine to put it back in for cash...   

 

and yes, 286 mm pen is sufficient - so why on earth is 329 needed for a cash version?  why are you ignoring the obvious?

 

whereas I'm not the one that normally gives a crap about prem rounds because I play paper tanks, the player base itself is often crying about ridiculous penetration levels.  wargaming themselves facetiously talked about 'balancing' penetration on super test at some point, then they offer this thing which at tier 8 has basically the same pen as a tier 10 ru med. 

 

this is a premium tank that gets increased credit earnings, the prem round on it has the same shell cost as a tier 10 ru med's heat rounds but rolls for more than 2x the dmg of the ru meds that everyone cries about.  as for why I'm pointing out the prem rounds, because quite obviously many people will full load premium in it since they won't lose money anyway.  it's the skorpG problem that some folks cry about.

 

I personally think it's bad for the game, but at least it's on a mediocre platform.



Avalon304 #14 Posted May 24 2020 - 00:26

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on May 23 2020 - 15:21, said:

and yes, 286 mm pen is sufficient - so why on earth is 329 needed for a cash version?  why are you ignoring the obvious?

 

whereas I'm not the one that normally gives a crap about prem rounds because I play paper tanks, the player base itself is often crying about ridiculous penetration levels.  wargaming themselves facetiously talked about 'balancing' penetration on super test at some point, then they offer this thing which at tier 8 has basically the same pen as a tier 10 ru med. 

 

this is a premium tank that gets increased credit earnings, the prem round on it has the same shell cost as a tier 10 ru med's heat rounds but rolls for more than 2x the dmg of the ru meds that everyone cries about.  as for why I'm pointing out the prem rounds, because quite obviously many people will full load premium in it since they won't lose money anyway.  it's the skorpG problem that some folks cry about.

 

I personally think it's bad for the game, but at least it's on a mediocre platform.

 

The obvious being what exactly? The 329 is silly high for tier 8? I mean, for a tier 8 TD it actually isnt. 329mm of pen was (and is on the Obj. 704) what the BL-10 had. Why would it have changed?

 

Yes, I know the playerbase cries about silly high penetration levels. I find it hilarious, and generally dismiss it, because it usually comes with complaints of "premium lets you just auto aim and ignores armor" which for the most part isnt true anyway, since you do still need to aim at heavily armored targets even with prem. And 329 pen APCR ist categorically worse than 330 pen HEAT, so while the numbers are the same the effect really wont be.

 

People will certainly lose money in this tank if all they do is fire prem. This tank isnt like a Skorpion G where you can sit far back and reasonably expect it to hit things. Its a giant shotgun. Both the ISU-152s are giant shotguns that need to be driven reasonably close to the enemy to hit them reliably. (Theres a reason the BL-10 became known as the troll cannon). And without a turret thats exceedingly hard to do correctly. Missed shots will be common for most players who normally play TDs, because they think all TDs must snipe. From the games Ive seen, 100k+ credit games wont be uncommon, but only if youre firing standard, and given that standard ammo has more than enough pen, I dont know why anyone with a brain would bother cutting into their profits that much, for penetration that really wont be needed in 95% of situations. 

 

Its fine for the game, precisely because its on a mediocre platform. (And this is why it was removed from the tech tree tank, because it was on a much better platform (the irony being that removing it actually made the tech tree ISU a slightly better platform for its new gun too)).



spud_tuber #15 Posted May 24 2020 - 00:51

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View PostAvalon304, on May 23 2020 - 17:26, said:

*snip*

 

Its fine for the game, precisely because its on a mediocre platform. (And this is why it was removed from the tech tree tank, because it was on a much better platform (the irony being that removing it actually made the tech tree ISU a slightly better platform for its new gun too)).

The only buff the ISU got when the BL-10 was removed was 190 extra HP.

 

https://tanks.gg/com...isu-152__v09171

 

Sure, that does technically make it a slightly better platform.



Kliphie #16 Posted May 24 2020 - 14:35

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View PostKliphie, on May 23 2020 - 10:07, said:

Wait, 152s have AP and APCR shells???

 

Weird, I thought this was posted in the sarcasm font.  Sorry to all who took the time to take that seriously.  



ThePigSheFlies #17 Posted May 24 2020 - 15:26

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View PostAvalon304, on May 23 2020 - 18:26, said:

 

The obvious being what exactly? The 329 is silly high for tier 8? I mean, for a tier 8 TD it actually isnt. 329mm of pen was (and is on the Obj. 704) what the BL-10 had. Why would it have changed?

 

I'll repeat part of it since you keep dodging it.  There is a precedent being pushed where some might consider it bait and switch.  I played hundreds of games in the original isu152 with the BL10 when tier 8s constantly saw tier 10s.  They took it away because "it was too strong" - and then bring it back, only if you throw cash at themI submit to you that perception of bait+switch and/or pay2win is one that is dangerous for the game.  honestly I don't care if you disagree with that assessment as you're entitled to your own opinion, and I'll agree to disagree with you on that point.

 

330 is basically the same as 329 in terms of measuring pen. based upon your source  it's basically in a 6 way tie for 4th place.  there are 31 TDs with premium pen lower than it...  yeah, it's not silly high at tier 8.  :rolleyes:

 

Note, just because you and I find premium ammo crying amusing doesn't mean that reasonable people can't reasonably find that passive game play caused by yet another triangle, with premium earnings and tier 10 level penetration at tier 8, with cancerously high alpha isn't good for the game.  

 

 

 



spud_tuber #18 Posted May 24 2020 - 16:28

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on May 24 2020 - 08:26, said:

 

I'll repeat part of it since you keep dodging it.  There is a precedent being pushed where some might consider it bait and switch.  I played hundreds of games in the original isu152 with the BL10 when tier 8s constantly saw tier 10s.  They took it away because "it was too strong" - and then bring it back, only if you throw cash at themI submit to you that perception of bait+switch and/or pay2win is one that is dangerous for the game.  honestly I don't care if you disagree with that assessment as you're entitled to your own opinion, and I'll agree to disagree with you on that point.

 

330 is basically the same as 329 in terms of measuring pen. based upon your source  it's basically in a 6 way tie for 4th place.  there are 31 TDs with premium pen lower than it...  yeah, it's not silly high at tier 8.  :rolleyes:

 

Note, just because you and I find premium ammo crying amusing doesn't mean that reasonable people can't reasonably find that passive game play caused by yet another triangle, with premium earnings and tier 10 level penetration at tier 8, with cancerously high alpha isn't good for the game.  

 

 

 

Yeah, the current isu gun has 292 prem pen.  That's not much different than the 286 base pen on the BL-10, certainly a lot closer than the base pen on the 2 guns.  For instance, 286 and 292 both have right at a 50% chance to pen T30 turret, while 260 has <30%, chance and 329 > 80%.  Same would apply to T34 and T29.

 

Course, if the T30 isn't using gun depression, then over matching the turret roof can be done with any of them, but if it has that mostly hidden with gun depression...



Avalon304 #19 Posted May 24 2020 - 21:58

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on May 24 2020 - 07:26, said:

 

I'll repeat part of it since you keep dodging it.  There is a precedent being pushed where some might consider it bait and switch.  I played hundreds of games in the original isu152 with the BL10 when tier 8s constantly saw tier 10s.  They took it away because "it was too strong" - and then bring it back, only if you throw cash at themI submit to you that perception of bait+switch and/or pay2win is one that is dangerous for the game.  honestly I don't care if you disagree with that assessment as you're entitled to your own opinion, and I'll agree to disagree with you on that point.

 

330 is basically the same as 329 in terms of measuring pen. based upon your source  it's basically in a 6 way tie for 4th place.  there are 31 TDs with premium pen lower than it...  yeah, it's not silly high at tier 8.  :rolleyes:

 

Note, just because you and I find premium ammo crying amusing doesn't mean that reasonable people can't reasonably find that passive game play caused by yet another triangle, with premium earnings and tier 10 level penetration at tier 8, with cancerously high alpha isn't good for the game.  

 

 

 

 

I mean... this isnt the first tank thats done this... so the precedent has long since been set... see also the Pz. IV S. See also the KV-122. See also the Lorraine 40t. See also the FV4202. (And even the latter two arent exactly the same situation).

 

The reality is it would only be a bait an switch if:

 

A. The tech tree ISU actually practically changed after its nerf (which it didnt).

 

and

 

B. The tech tree ISU had also only been purchasable with money (which it wasnt).

 

Anyone who thinks this is a bait and switch situation is an idiot. Period. 

 

As for whether or not 329 is silly high for tier 8 there are 11 TDs with this high of penetration (320+) and then there are ~17 that have 311mm of pen or lower (or were you counting every gun on the page and counting tanks multiple times. My count did not include unreleased tanks, the FL tanks or any gun that wasnt a top gun).

 

As for the passive play complaint... that been a problem for as long as the game has been around, even when there werent as many TDs in the game as there are now. Thats not a symptom of TDs its a symptom of players who dont know how to play the game.






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