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Just when you think you have the info on crew retraining


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Craig234 #1 Posted May 26 2020 - 18:33

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So, we all agree, when you retrain a crew for a tank of the same type for silver, basic skills go from 100% to 90% and skills are unchanged, right?

Yet, I just retrained an Obj 263 commander to the Obj 268 4, and his third skill went from 52% to 41%. I guess I've seen this before when the skill is unassigned, and had forgotten.



Kramah313 #2 Posted May 26 2020 - 18:54

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If it’s unassigned, the XP difference will make up the base skill instead. So the third skill dropped, but his base should be 100%. I sometimes do this on purpose. 

dunniteowl #3 Posted May 27 2020 - 00:03

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When you train for silver, you either:

 

Have your crew be trained to the new tank at 90% (80% if a different Class of tank from previous) of their previous Crew Skill level OR 75%, whichever is greater.  So with a 100% crew it would automatically 'drop' to 90%.  

 

However, your Skills and Perks take a 'bit of a hit' as well.  When you have Skills and Perks IN ADDITION to a fully (or partially) trained Crew, the training/retraining system automatically takes the missing 10% of the Crew Qualification from the Next Skill in line.  (your first Skill or Perk).  If you had, say, a 

 

Fully Qualified Crew at 100%, 1st Skill 100%, 2nd Skill 100% and 3rd Skill 85%

 

                      And you Retrain with Silver (Regimental Training for 20K Credits per crew member)

 

This is what ACTUALLY Happens under the hood.

 

90% CQ, 1st Skill 90%, 2nd Skill 90%, 3rd Skill 76.5%.

 

     Because you have Skills in the mix, the Retraining System seems to attempt to 'balance' out the CQ, then the first Skill and the second Skill by taking bits from the 3rd Skill, which is already also been dinged.  So then the system makes your crew look like this instead:

 

100% CQ, 1st Skill 90%, 2nd Skill 90%, 3rd Skill 66.5%   

 

     But WAIT!  There's more!  You have to have your other skills at 100% before you can continue to increase your 3rd skill, so it then 'dips' from the 3rd Skill for the 1st and 2nd skills, taking another 20% for those two.  Now it looks like:

 

100% CQ, 1st Skill 100%, 2nd Skill 100%, 3rd Skill 46.5%.

 

The change literally goes unseen in between and you end up seeing the last set of numbers (in this example) after you retrain with silver.  The reason it does it this way with skills and perks in the mix is that you cannot continue to train with a less than 100% crew and as you retrained with silver and lost 10% of your base on each the Qualification and all the following Skills/Perks, the system 'wants' to be able to keep advancing your Skills, so it shovels as much of the missing differences into the Tank Qualification and if there's more left over for the 1st Skill, it dumps it there until it's full and so forth.

 

So, retraining this way (which as a Free To Play Pubbie, I do) actually bites a bit harder than most might think.  However, IT'S STILL a VERY GOOD DEAL if you are not going to use (or don't have) Gold to retrain your crews for no penalty.

 

I learned very early on that it was financially more rewarding to retrain your crews, even with silver instead of getting new crews as you advanced up the tiers.  As an example, say you got a crew at tier 1 and spent the 20K credits per crew member on them (I have always done it this way).  You play that tank until you're ready to puke from the zany fun that is the first tier and your crew is now at 87%.

 

If you can retrain your crew to the next tank, you get 90% of that 87%, which means chop off 10% of that for an 8.7% dip, which still leaves you a 78.3% trained crew, which is STILL better than a standard 75% crew.  Granted, not by much, but more is more and the qualitative difference of even a couple % points can be noted in how the vehicle performs.

 

If you take your crews to 100% (like I do, but I also have a 100 games per tank minimum playing standard) you get:

 

A)  More personal experience at playing the game -- you cannot buy training and suddenly have it take hold, playing IS your training for YOU.

 

B)  More time to learn the tanks in that tier and the tiers above or below you and how they 'stack up' against the tank you're using (this is valuable knowledge).

 

C)  Crews that reach 100% and start working on a Skill before you leave that tank.  (This is quite valuable as well if you can't or won't use gold to retrain).

 

 

If you do it that way, while you train your crews to 100% and start working a skill, you can retrain your crew with silver, lose 10% of your totals and start your next tier tank in the line with a crew that is already better than just a new Regimental Trained Crew of 75%.  This allows you to leverage more of the tank's ability than a lesser trained crew.

 

This translates into:

     More shots per game as you have a slightly faster crew (load times, aim times are shorter).

     Better chance to spot before being spotted (increased view range/spotting)

     A slightly more responsive unit, which can mean:

            Better chance to escape danger

            Maybe faster load and firing than an opponent

           Quicker traverse for turret and chassis, meaning less time spent waiting to aim at someone.

 

All that translates into a potential for you to have one or two more damaging shots per game from just having a slightly better crew at the start than grinding out a Free 50% crew (<-- I personally think this is INSANE to do) or even by paying for a fresh Regimental 75% trained crew.  It translates into slightly better vision and spotting potential, which means you might get that shot on an opponent BEFORE being spotted and that's always an advantage you wish to have.  It also translates into a slightly more maneuverable unit, which means you might be able to get to your position, flex to another place or get back into cover faster and that translates into being able to avoid being shot better than a lesser trained crew.

 

Again, all this might make one to three shots of difference in your games.  Doesn't sound like much, does it?

 

One or two more damaging shots per game took me from being a straight 48% player to about a straight 49.5% player.  Still doesn't sound like much, does it?

 

Each one or two percent difference in the positive direction for you and you WILL notice a difference in the outcomes of your games and overall improvement of each game's results in terms of damage, kills and XP.  As you increase your XP per game, your 'grind' will be slightly lessened (of course, balanced in the other direction by a continually increasing XP requirement for the next cool thing) and this means you will train faster, unlock modules faster and generally have more silver sitting in your account when you finish that tank and move on to the next one.

 

 

Sorry if this was longer than anyone was ready for at this point.  It seemed like a good place to drop this information down for folks to have a better understanding of Crew Training and how the 'deductions' are made.  You can also find most of the dry, boring, though WG Rules information here:

 

                 Global Wiki -- Crew: Training and Retraining in the Major Qualifications 

 

Be advised, the information in the wiki does NOT cover how the % losses 'stack' with each skill or perk in the progression or how it automatically assigns the XP needed from one skill to 'flesh out' the major qualification and subsequent skills in the 'training track.'  That's stuff that I discovered (as I am sure have many others before me) and dug into when I noticed it didn't seem like it was occurring the way the information above indicated.

 

 

Hope any of you find that useful or helpful at all.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO



242dEngrBn #4 Posted Jun 02 2020 - 04:17

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Thanks, dunniteowl!  It's starting to clear up a little for me.  Never transferred crews much.  There's plenty of info on the concept of transferring trained crews, but not much on the mechanics of how to do it.  The wiki link does a good job.

 

I've been grinding my crews since I started playing.  It was a learning experience then, but, now I have some 4-5 skill trained mid tier crews and some upper tier tanks with lousy crews. The competition at tiers VII and up is fierce and I'll never be able to grind a crew, so I'll be moving some up.  

 

What about all this transfer crews from or is it to Premium tanks for no penalty?  I've tried that a couple of times but I've always had to either pay or I moved them back.  How does that work?



dunniteowl #5 Posted Jun 02 2020 - 06:32

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View Post242dEngrBn, on Jun 01 2020 - 21:17, said:

Thanks, dunniteowl!  It's starting to clear up a little for me.  Never transferred crews much.  There's plenty of info on the concept of transferring trained crews, but not much on the mechanics of how to do it.  The wiki link does a good job.

 

I've been grinding my crews since I started playing.  It was a learning experience then, but, now I have some 4-5 skill trained mid tier crews and some upper tier tanks with lousy crews. The competition at tiers VII and up is fierce and I'll never be able to grind a crew, so I'll be moving some up.  

 

What about all this transfer crews from or is it to Premium tanks for no penalty?  I've tried that a couple of times but I've always had to either pay or I moved them back.  How does that work?

 

This was a confusing thing to me, because a lot of times WG gave us Premium tanks with BIA 0 Zero Skill crews at times.  Well, of course, they're already trained to the Premium, which sort of makes sense, but doesn't really help you that much.  Premium Tanks can have Crew of the Same Class (TD to TD, MED to MED, etc) of the Same Nation with no penalty and you DO NOT TRAIN them to the tank!!  

 

This was the confusing thing, because you have to be paying attention to the fact that, while the crew names are in red, there is no penalty listed.  This is due to the fact that Premiums are exempt (as long as the crew is the same class/nation) from the crew training penalty.  So the best benefit of that crew is to spend the gold (or even the Silver method if you must -- I've done it a few times that way) to retrain the crew to a tank you plan to play for a while.  Then you can swap them from the tank on the tech tree and the Premium (keep them trained to the tech tree tank) by swapping them back and forth.

 

This is how you speed up the Crew Grind with Premiums.  You can train the crew in their Tech Tree tank and then toss them into a Premium and run them that way as well.  In this manner, any crew you can fit into a Premium from the nation lines will can have this benefit (other than the 1st Victory bonus of the Premium if used already).

 

Hope that helps you to understand the way and the reason that Premium tanks operate the way they do.  You really have to watch the penalty % on the crew box, because they do show up in red, because they're not trained to the tank.  The ONLY difference you will see is that same class crews have no penalty applied to them.  If you take a crew from another line, they DO operate at a 20% penalty for being in the wrong class and not trained to the tank. 

 

With Tech Tree tanks doing this, same class, not trained to the tank is a 10% operational penalty, no matter what overall qualification level the crew has.  If it is a different class, there is a 20% operational penalty for not being trained to the tank.  This operates on the Premiums as well, BECAUSE their only benefit is to crew of the same class in that nation line.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO



Ralfybaby62 #6 Posted Jun 06 2020 - 06:03

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Console player here trying my hand at the pc version of the game. So is there any point in overtraining a crew as we do on the console? I.e. getting 100% plus another 25k xp will have you at 100% tank mastery on your next tank you put your crew in. Thx

dunniteowl #7 Posted Jun 07 2020 - 01:03

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View PostRalfybaby62, on Jun 05 2020 - 23:03, said:

Console player here trying my hand at the pc version of the game. So is there any point in overtraining a crew as we do on the console? I.e. getting 100% plus another 25k xp will have you at 100% tank mastery on your next tank you put your crew in. Thx

 

You'll get varying responses to that question.  It's really your call how you wish to allot your XP.  You can't really 'save' it until your Crew hits 100% Qualification (they are as good in that tank as they can ever get without modifications) and then all you are doing is 'holding in reserve' XP that could be actively providing your Crew members a tiny, accumulating boost to a skill that grows as the percentage increases.  This is a small advantage to training up Skills first and then later, perform a Crew Skills Reset (Reset Training) and grab some Perks and start them off at full 100% levels, then select those other skills you think you need.

 

This allows a crew that's been training and gaining Skill Points to trained Skills allows that Crew to be a bit more effective as a crew, though without the full benefit of a 100% perk, like BIA or Sixth Sense, for example.  It's not perfect, however you can train crews in that manner and then do a Skill Reset when you have like 3 full skills and are at least 50% of the way on a 4th (if you do this with credits only) so that you come out with 3 fully trained skills or perks of your choosing to provide a different level of crew ability.

 

If you retrain with gold and are okay with having plenty of it (Premium Account, Paying for Gold, winning Gold from missions or events), then this really becomes a non-issue as you can 'correct' any path deviations with Tank Academy Level training (200 Gold per Crew Member).  At that point, you can pretty much choose the Skills or Perks in the order you wish it.

 

 

Also, just as a note, if you want to use BIA (Brothers In Arms) you MUST have 100% BIA for ALL members of your crew before it will operate at all.  Some folks argue that you should train in BIA first and pick your other Skills and Perks accordingly as you grow your crew.

 

Which dovetails back to your question.  There seems to be a general consensus that you cannot 'overtrain' your crew.  It also seems to me that holding Crew XP in reserve (not selecting a skill or perk to accumulate % increase and letting it 'build up' over time) is something most do not do, though there is a small amount of folks who maintain it's better to save it up that way and apportion it when you have 'enough' of it to select a few skills or perks.  I do not personally ascribe to this method as I think holding it in reserve that way lessens the overall, if marginal, effectiveness of your crew during play.

 

In general, you should be seeking every single advantage you can manage to put into or on your tanks/crews as I see it.  Each small increment in ability is that much less you are at a disadvantage.

 

You can hold it in reserve, certainly.  I do not think there is a large group of folks who do this and promote it as a 'more effective' method to assign Skills and Perks to a crew.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO






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