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WG please don't forget about the Progetto 46

Progetto pay-to-win nerf autoloader

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Cricketer #21 Posted May 27 2020 - 16:57

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View Postkhorender_1, on May 27 2020 - 10:43, said:

You have no idea what p2w means.

 

P2W has always been defined as being able to pay to get an advantage. No major game is literally "pay to win" as in you can literally pull out your credit card to buy wins, it has always been about buying something that gives you a competitive edge.

Progetto > Panterra, EBR 75 > Lynx, Skoda T27 >>> TVP VTU. Yes, pulling out a credit card doesn't "buy" a win, but it does give a competitive edge.



cartires #22 Posted May 27 2020 - 17:15

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Nerf progetto??? The Italians have one line...and you want to need progetto and I heard from skill , the tier 9??? 

Wargaming, your way out of line if you do this...if you feel the need to nerf something nerf the Russian line with its 8000 lines.. 1 linemline andband your considering a nerd to its its its only preem tank....wow......



Tidepod_Challenger #23 Posted May 27 2020 - 17:15

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You   could have got the proggeto for free in the marathon  How is that ptw?  Also dont see it as that op.  Have no major problems fighting them with t44.

ExploratorOne #24 Posted May 27 2020 - 17:32

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Progetto is #22 in Tier VIII WR.  Behind the LT432, Emil 1951, Defender, Bourrasque, 50TP, TS-5, Renegade, T44-100, and others.  Only .08 above tanks like the Even 90.  Why single it out for nerfs?  

RoIito #25 Posted May 27 2020 - 17:33

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View PostSteelRonin, on May 27 2020 - 10:37, said:

Progetto 46 is OP, 1400 HP for a "glass cannon" is [edited]. It should have 1300 HP and a slightly nerf on its weapon handling. But it is a premium, they won't nerf it for political issues...sadly

 

That's just a lame excuse to not nerf premium tanks, it is stated in the EULA they can do whatever the f*ck they want with every single tank in this game, be it reward, premium or tech tree.



Fractured_Raptor #26 Posted May 27 2020 - 17:35

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oxf_and_bucks #27 Posted May 27 2020 - 17:43

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View PostRoIito, on May 27 2020 - 17:33, said:

 

That's just a lame excuse to not nerf premium tanks, it is stated in the EULA they can do whatever the f*ck they want with every single tank in this game, be it reward, premium or tech tree.

 

EULAs are almost worthless once they are challenged legally.

 

Not to mention Europe has especially stringent consumer protection laws.The reason you won't see premium nerfs is that it just isn't worth it for WG to open themselves up to that amount of potential legal hassles.



Kliphie #28 Posted May 27 2020 - 17:45

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The hesitation to change premium tanks is a business decision, not legal.  

Stamson #29 Posted May 27 2020 - 17:55

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View PostSteelRonin, on May 27 2020 - 16:37, said:

Progetto 46 is OP, 1400 HP for a "glass cannon" is [edited]. It should have 1300 HP and a slightly nerf on its weapon handling. But it is a premium, they won't nerf it for political issues...sadly

 

This is why nerfs to their entire autoloader system mechanic would be better, like adding some sort of penalty for unloading completely. This would achieve nerfs to the Standard B and Progetto 65 like WG wants, but also hit the 46 which is the real problem in terms of tier-to-tier power.

 

It's the same way the EBR 75 is going to get indirectly nerfed when they make changes to wheel absorption mechanics.



Loremaster2 #30 Posted May 27 2020 - 19:03

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View PostStamson, on May 27 2020 - 17:55, said:

 

This is why nerfs to their entire autoloader system mechanic would be better, like adding some sort of penalty for unloading completely. This would achieve nerfs to the Standard B and Progetto 65 like WG wants, but also hit the 46 which is the real problem in terms of tier-to-tier power.

 

It's the same way the EBR 75 is going to get indirectly nerfed when they make changes to wheel absorption mechanics.

Having a drawback to the loading system is what WG did to the double barreled tanks, and I have yet to see someone complain about those, so it could work.



khorender_1 #31 Posted May 27 2020 - 19:05

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View PostCricketer, on May 27 2020 - 16:57, said:

 

P2W has always been defined as being able to pay to get an advantage. No major game is literally "pay to win" as in you can literally pull out your credit card to buy wins, it has always been about buying something that gives you a competitive edge.

Progetto > Panterra, EBR 75 > Lynx, Skoda T27 >>> TVP VTU. Yes, pulling out a credit card doesn't "buy" a win, but it does give a competitive edge.

Seriously ? you're buying for an edge ? Reaching pretty far on that one, and the Prog is only as good as the person playing it, just because you spent cash doesn't mean you automatically have an edge. It's the only t8 prem that seems to be balanced, people rail on it because it's reload is different than it's line, C'mon man if your going to use EBR that thing is only op in a damn good players hands.



SquiggyMcPew #32 Posted May 27 2020 - 19:09

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I see loads of supposedly op tanks die in a fire every time I load into a match. It's rare I see op tanks do well unless its driven by a gud or some tater gets a RNGesus match. Even defenders the supposedly most op and noob friendly tank in the game will clock in with plenty of zero damage games.

gideon_an #33 Posted May 27 2020 - 19:37

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I remember when the IS-3A was the most broken over powered tank. It was the one QB was going to quit over because it was so broken and overpowered hidden behind a loot box gate.

The Prog is a problem because it will generally snap out 2 shots for 500 HP. But after those 2 shots then what? That is when they get hammered and killed. Some good players can slow down the fire fight but any player that knows the Italian line is going to be in their face forcing those 10-11 second reloads and DPMing them to the garage. 

teamoldmill #34 Posted May 27 2020 - 23:37

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Remember when premium tanks were supposed to be a little under tech tree tanks for power? The top 50 tank list is crowded with premium tanks. They are clearly better now.  Compare the "premium" Panther 88 to the Prog 46 though. Huge disparity in nation's premiums as well.

 

Bah humbug.

 

 



SquiggyMcPew #35 Posted May 27 2020 - 23:47

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View Postteamoldmill, on May 27 2020 - 23:37, said:

Remember when premium tanks were supposed to be a little under tech tree tanks for power? The top 50 tank list is crowded with premium tanks. They are clearly better now.  Compare the "premium" Panther 88 to the Prog 46 though. Huge disparity in nation's premiums as well.

 

Bah humbug.

 

 

 

I still play my p88 and it does the second line support function well enough which is all it can really do with the constant tier 9 and 10 matches. Being a barn sized tank with paper armor isn't going to be fixed by any buffs but they could up mobility and gun handling and probably a general buff to the long 88 itself to make it more competitive after years of power creep.



GSOR3301_AVR_FS #36 Posted May 28 2020 - 00:07

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View PostDesert_Fox_1969, on May 27 2020 - 15:26, said:

Why don't you call for a Lorraine 40t nerf? 4 shells, no armor, good gun. What about the Skoda 27? 3 shells, no armor, good gun. 

 

In fairness, the Lorr 40t and Skoda are not so much "good guns" when compared to the Progetto.

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The Progetto is noticeably more comfortable to play when it comes to gun handling, and is more likely to hit every shot in his clip than the other two. He is also more stealthy, has more health, more viewrange, is arguably more mobile (worse p/w ratio by a fair bit but excellent terrain resistances), and then on top of that has the autoreloader mechanic which makes him still dangerous even after his clip (and his full clip reload is IIRC, actually faster than the T 27 When crewed, though admittedly this ignores the increased reload if he fires his shot before fully reloaded).

 

When it comes to the proposed Italian changes, I still maintain that the only problem child in the Italian line is the Progetto 46. The Pantera is great but definitely is less comfortable due to larger size, longer intraclip and worse gun handling. The Tier VIIIs also don't feel the DPM Hit after clipping as much as the higher tier tech tree tanks, as about 22 Seconds in the Progetto is plenty of time between most engagements to reload the full clip. The flexibility of the mechanic on top of this means the Progetto is almost always an active threat on the battlefield, whereas both the Lorraine and Skoda have periods of vulnerability, especially if they are unable to finish a tank in front of them.



_Brew_ #37 Posted May 28 2020 - 01:35

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View PostExploratorOne, on May 27 2020 - 11:32, said:

Progetto is #22 in Tier VIII WR.  Behind the LT432, Emil 1951, Defender, Bourrasque, 50TP, TS-5, Renegade, T44-100, and others.  Only .08 above tanks like the Even 90.  Why single it out for nerfs?  

 

Because he is jealous that he doesn't have one and/or can't afford one from the shop when it comes up.

 

In the meantime I'll enjoy my Spaghetto I got from the marathon (that was available to everyone) and all the purple equipment I've put on it since.

 

Have fun out there, OP!

 



JONDIESATTHEEND #38 Posted May 28 2020 - 03:19

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View PostWaarheid, on May 27 2020 - 07:18, said:

It has the 15th highest winrate on NA for tier 8 medium tanks. 

The Pantera is 12th. 

serverstats

No nerf needed. 


I like that site. It also shows the tier 9 and 10 Italians are not over performing so why the nerfs? They both have 5 or 6 tech tree tanks in the same tier/class doing better than them. What was glaringly obvious is that something needs to be done for the tier 10 American and German lights. Both of those tanks have been horribly underperforming since they came out but WG refuses to fix them.



leeuniverse #39 Posted May 28 2020 - 03:49

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WG please don't forget about the Progetto 46

 

1. I'm not going to deny that it's a good tank, it is...  However, there are some problems with your judgment.

 

2. First, you have to be a good enough player to be good in it, because like people have said it IS a class cannon, and players that aren't as good perform better in armored tanks.  (well, maybe statistically, I certainly don't, I need performance over armor now cause everything else is such donkey crap)

Proof of this is the list of T10 tanks that are best...  The most armored tanks are the best, and interesting, the Obj 430U was actually near the bottom of the list near the Progetto 65.

 

3. Second, what you should be asking is instead of making the ENTIRE GAME DONKEY ****!  You should be asking Wargaming to instead BUFF some of the massive CRAP of the game!

Like, at T8 you pretty much listed every tank that are any good, and thus the only ones I play (the mediums and lights anyway, heavy's and TD's are crap now, unplayable for me).

So, you nerf those tanks, guess what, I'm NOT playing the game anymore, so how is that right?

And to be clear, it's NOT because those tanks are "op", it's because they have some speed and decent gun performance.  And what do other tanks have in comparison...?  NOTHING.

They have CRAP speeds, and while some have good guns, they aren't good in damage.  For example, most of your mediums are SLOW as donkey crap like heavy's, yet they only have a little armor, not like heavy's, and their guns do friggen 200+ damage...  That's just uncalled for for tanks that SLOW, and not really having the needed armor to compensate.

 

Anyway, please stop having backward thinking, and instead have FORWARD thinking...  Ask to make the game BETTER by BUFFING some of the massive CRAP.

 

I mean, when the great physics nerf and round accuracy nerf occurred, 80% of my garage became crap overnight.

If *****'s like you keep nerfing anything that's most of which is just "playable", then nobody wants to play a game like that.

Take the Progetto 46 you want to nerf...  It's actually NOT as good as I think it should be.  Some of its performance is frustrating, like sometimes shooting the ground etc.

But fortunately, it has "enough" speed and gun performance to make it good enough for me to consistently perform.  And to be clear, I have no problem with others playing good tanks, it's about speed and performance for me, so "I" can perform well, like I can perform MUCH better when I have a "Straight" Pool Cue.  It's the same with tanks.

 

Let me give you an example of a tank that's "statistically" not considered "op", and most players don't consider op, but "I" think it's the best tank of any save the obvious, op premiums at T10.

I think the TVP T 50/51 is the best tank at T10, because it has decent speeds, a decent performing gun, and good reload.  I think it's better than the Obj. 430U, the Progetto 65, etc., cause it has good SPEEDS, and a good performing gun better than them.  So, like I said, I don't care about "op", I care about "performance", not over others, but the tank itself in characteristics.

 

Anyway, can people like you and even Wargaming, PLEASE be "productive" instead of "destructive" for a change???

I would like to still play the game...  It's the same with EBR's, you're going to ruin them too, when they are just right performing, not actually "OP", instead of doing a "proper" balancing, correcting slightly a couple of things with the tanks themselves, but BUFFING other tanks with their speeds and gun performances to better fight against them, especially arty which are almost completely defenseless due to how SLOW etc. they are.



awildseaking #40 Posted May 28 2020 - 06:05

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People who think the T8-10 Italians don't have armor must be drunk. They have lots of weird slopes and angles, as well as gaps on their turrets that RNG will derp your shell into and bounce.

 

These tanks are all very powerful and their versatility is the key to their success. They're autoloaders when you need them and regular mediums when you don't. It's always a losing battle to trade with them and unlike actual autoloaders, they don't have 30-40 second reloads that serve as a counter. I'm glad they're being nerfed as well, but I understand why the optics are so bad considering that these tanks are not the #1 problem on the server. WG seems almost too willing to nerf some tech trees, but not others.

 

While WG is at it, nerf the Borrasque and Somua SM as well. Autoloaders should follow the 50-100 model of balance (mediocre platform in exchange for great gun and autoloader potential). If an autoloader would be OP without the autoloader, then it is even more OP with it.


Edited by awildseaking, May 28 2020 - 06:07.






Also tagged with Progetto, pay-to-win, nerf, autoloader

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