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WoT and Mods


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Xx_GROOT_xX #1 Posted May 29 2020 - 21:52

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Hello

I'm sure this has been discussed before. I couldn't find the post my apologies.

These questions are for the Dev's.This post is about cheating in game.  Why not completely do away with Mods. The way I look at it, if you allow mods of any kind you open the door for cheats.  How difficult would it be to implement this? One thing I would recommend is having all tanks with build in Sixth sense at the start. I'm sure you could come up with a replacement stat for those that already have this. You talk about Zero tolerance for cheating. This is just an idea.



PTwr #2 Posted May 29 2020 - 22:43

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Mods and client-side cheats were here long before WG added built-in support for mods.

Where there is will, a way will be found.



bad_73 #3 Posted May 29 2020 - 23:24

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The purpose of the mod door is free development ideas for wg who cant come up with their own ideas so they let peeps cheat so they save money and dont have to think as much.

black_colt #4 Posted May 29 2020 - 23:25

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View PostXx_GROOT_xX, on May 29 2020 - 12:52, said:

Hello

I'm sure this has been discussed before. I couldn't find the post my apologies.

These questions are for the Dev's.This post is about cheating in game.  Why not completely do away with Mods. The way I look at it, if you allow mods of any kind you open the door for cheats.  How difficult would it be to implement this? One thing I would recommend is having all tanks with build in Sixth sense at the start. I'm sure you could come up with a replacement stat for those that already have this. You talk about Zero tolerance for cheating. This is just an idea.

 

Why?

 

I do not cheat and should be able to use approved mods.

 

I call BS on that all-or-nothing method. What you are suggesting is that all responsible players must now suffer because of non-responsible players.

 

Just like normal society there are good and bad people.  It is up to the good people to report the bad people in gameso that their actions can be investigated.

 

So how do you report those individuals?

 

Well Wargaming has an article on it - perhaps you could give it a read - https://na.wargaming.../article/18976/

 



_Tsavo_ #5 Posted May 29 2020 - 23:27

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Do you like last known position on the minimap? Damage logs?  Assistance logs?  Minimap spotting/view range circles?  Multi row carousel?  Incoming fire indicator?  Auto return crew?  And a fair many of the other creature comforts in vanilla gameplay?

 

Yeah, they were originally mods.  



black_colt #6 Posted May 29 2020 - 23:38

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View PostPTwr, on May 29 2020 - 13:43, said:

Mods and client-side cheats were here long before WG added built-in support for mods.

Where there is will, a way will be found.


True and Wargaming has recognized this by creating a MOD HUB where responsible people can go and get approved mods for the game.

 

Now if Wargaming could only implement scanning of the game files prior to launching into the World of Tanks client without violating privacy laws then they could search for non-approved mods ....

 

If they could then any un-approved mods would trigger an audit to determine if the mods are indeed un-approved. The player should be still allowed to play until the audit is complete.  

 

Adding a dialog box when un-approved mods are found would then be triggered ...

 

  Suspected un-approved mods have been found in the game client. Continuing to play with these mods will subject your account to immediate review under the Fair Play Policy. Approved mods can be downloaded from the MOD HUB at xxxxx - with a [Continue] and [Exit] with the default to [Exit]

 

If the player wants to continue they do so at their own risk.  Not sure how long it takes for an audit but I am sure Wargaming would find it is their best interest to audit that player immediately - as in as soon as they start a battle.

 

You will not deter dedicated cheaters but you will probably deter the casual cheater - e.g., if someone really wants your car there is no alarm system/deterrent that will stop them short of making it impossible to move.

 


Edited by black_colt, May 29 2020 - 23:56.


black_colt #7 Posted May 29 2020 - 23:50

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View Post_Tsavo_, on May 29 2020 - 14:27, said:

Do you like last known position on the minimap? Damage logs?  Assistance logs?  Minimap spotting/view range circles?  Multi row carousel?  Incoming fire indicator?  Auto return crew?  And a fair many of the other creature comforts in vanilla gameplay?

 

Yeah, they were originally mods.  


True.

 

Having the ability to run mods winnows the field so that only the best mods are used the most.  And if they are used the most then it highly likely that the player base thinks they are a good idea.

 

I think Wargaming realizes this with the release of the MOD HUB.  The mods on that site are Fair Play Policy exempt, Wargaming can track how many are downloaded, etc.  They can even cross-reference to support tickets to see if a mod is causing issues and remove the mod to increase stability.

 

What Wargaming needs now is a Developer Program for Mods to encourage more mods.

 

For a small fee - e.g., USD 25 - a developer would be registered and under NDA so that they can test their mods on pending release in a Sandbox with a fixed hardware configuration to ensure that the mod runs so that on release date there are fewer issues.  

 

For a larger fee - e.g. USD 100 - a developer would also be registered and under NDA but have access to various hardware configurations to test further.

 

Finally the MOD HUB should have Monthly Best Mod Program and give that player/maker in-game currency, recognition through a unique badge, gold.  Each month players would vote for their favourite mod.  Based on certain criteria a winner is chosen and then their mod is featured.

 

Then and if Wargaming can scan your local game client without violating privacy laws they could significantly reduce the number of un-approved mods from being used in the game. 

 

 


Edited by black_colt, May 29 2020 - 23:55.


ff8ff8 #8 Posted May 30 2020 - 00:09

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WG is just really bad at detecting illegal mods if they're installed correctly. This is something I took an interest in researching back when I was running tier 6 strongholds every day. I'd take note of players that when detracked would have their tracks flicker off and then on. I'd set the replay aside and take note of the name. Slowing replays down you'd notice that these players have rather poor decision making skills and are generally slow to react to anything happening in the battle. But from the moment of being detracked to repairing their track was always 3/16 of a second. Every single time 3/16 of a second without variation.
I accumulated a spreadsheet of probably 300 names of people that met this 3/16 of a second criteria on every single de-track.
Admittedly this was back when everyone did tier 6 stronks when the meta was type 64s and Broms, I lost interest after that and generally just remember the names of the most common ones I see now.
The average winrate of these people was probably 46-47%, so in general they were all pretty bad at the game and probably didn't understand that manually controlling your repairs is actually incredibly important. You don't always want to waste your rep on a track. So if you notice a name of someone with a repair script you just point that out in Teamspeak and they immediately get perma tracked for a free kill. If you look at the published names of the RU server bans you'll see that 47% is about the norm. Auto-repair or tree-down don't help these people overcome poor decision making and a lack of situational awareness.




On the competitive scene clans that run tree-down mod in clanwars are pretty widely known by the clan wars community, clans just fight against that by shooting down objects where they want the tree-down clan to flex or to get the enemy arty to shoot someplace else. But these clans are typically open to talking about their mods if you just go and talk to them. They're pretty confident in being able to run these mods for years and not being caught, and looking at who gets banned they seem to back up their assertion. They're confident enough to answer pretty much any questions you might have including what they're running, for how long, if they've ever been caught, where they get their mods, etc.
Of course they'll never talk about it in game and only over comms, so you can't just hand over chat logs and names to wargaming to get them the perma-ban they all deserve.



I'm all for an attempt to just patch out any and all mods and make any mods a banable offense. But some great mods did get put into the base game. After known-lit tanks and team HP I don't think there is anything left to put into the base game though.

Edited by ff8ff8, May 30 2020 - 00:19.


DVK9 #9 Posted May 30 2020 - 00:42

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Ban the garage mods as they cause cheating in battle.

Battle assistant should be ban...err never mind WG made their own based off that mod.

5-6 years ago it was bad since then I hardly see a banned mod being used.

I understand that strongholds/clan wars they are a bit more rampant.

 



GeorgePreddy #10 Posted May 31 2020 - 14:45

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View PostPTwr, on May 29 2020 - 18:43, said:

Mods and client-side cheats were here long before WG added built-in support for mods.

Where there is will, a way will be found.

 

Yes, it's astounding to me, that some folks don't understand that WG removing the res_mods folder from the game would NOT keep illegal mod makers from continuing to be able to gain access to WoT.  All it would do is deprive millions of players from having a much better experience in WoT by using legal mods.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



PTwr #11 Posted May 31 2020 - 18:11

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View Postblack_colt, on May 29 2020 - 22:38, said:

...Now if Wargaming could only implement scanning of the game files prior to launching into the World of Tanks client...

 

 

It would help thin the herd, probably a lot, but have in mind that it will never fully work simply because PC user have full control of machine by default. With full access to program binaries and memory there is no protection that will pass the test of time. Making it work requires constant development work to stay ahead of cheaters anti-anti-cheat modifications, which takes money. And even in soviet block companies do not like to spend it for customer satisfaction ;]





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