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Definitely rigged

rigged stats win rate

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Woland #1 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 15:28

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Yesterday I started playing in the morning.

 

I won 1 out of my first 8 matches. A chimpanzee can do better.

 

But then I won 13 of the next 16 to finish the day 14 for 24.

Clearly, the game is rigged against the chimpanzees and everyone on those other 13 teams. 

There was no way me simply changing tanks and focusing, saying to myself, "Damage, then kills, then survive, then win" and trying to do things in that order could possibly have helped.

unless . . .

This is the secret mantra of the WoT religion.

The Russians knowww. 

It's no coincidence the first letter in Russia is an R and the first letter in RNGesus is also an R. 

 

Happy tankin, y'all

 



cthulhu_hunter #2 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 15:36

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Of course game is rigged, so blatantly obvious. MM intentionally puts a better team vs a poorer team to make battles as short as possible. MM also rigs game by putting a tier 8 in tier 10 battle. If you play tier 4 through tier 8, you will be bottom tier in a 2 tier spread most of the time (+-75% of the time). Game is based on imbalance, it is written in the code. As always.......gg MM.

VooDooKobra #3 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 15:41

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View Postcthulhu_hunter, on Jun 15 2020 - 07:36, said:

Of course game is rigged, so blatantly obvious. MM intentionally puts a better team vs a poorer team to make battles as short as possible. MM also rigs game by putting a tier 8 in tier 10 battle. If you play tier 4 through tier 8, you will be bottom tier in a 2 tier spread most of the time (+-75% of the time). Game is based on imbalance, it is written in the code. As always.......gg MM.

i would still like to see your data on these feelings you keep posting besides you said you quit on the 1st, unless thats not entirely true

 

 


Edited by VooDooKobra, Jun 15 2020 - 15:44.


stubmw #4 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 15:45

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Last night played 20 matches and went 16-4, still this game is as crooked as a dogs hind leg. WG needs to explain those 16 wins.

Edited by stubmw, Jun 15 2020 - 16:17.


RMxR #5 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 15:46

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Actually the order should be: "surviving, damage, kills, win"

Markd73 #6 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 15:48

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View Postcthulhu_hunter, on Jun 15 2020 - 14:36, said:

Of course game is rigged, so blatantly obvious. MM intentionally puts a better team vs a poorer team to make battles as short as possible. MM also rigs game by putting a tier 8 in tier 10 battle. If you play tier 4 through tier 8, you will be bottom tier in a 2 tier spread most of the time (+-75% of the time). Game is based on imbalance, it is written in the code. As always.......gg MM.


As usual...any objective non-anecdotal data sets to back up any of these claims?

 

Feelz don't count.



larrytdale1965 #7 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 15:52

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PRIME EXAMPLE of rigged....last match there were only 5 of us on my team that were above 10k battles the other 10 players were below 1k battles but the opposing team had all players above 15 k battles with one player at 101k battle.......how is this not rigged and or fair

 



Bill_Nye_the_RussianSpy #8 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 15:55

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This past weekend I couldn't get any damage in to save my life. Maybe a few tanks i could but it was overall bad. I'm not saying its rigged it was just me. I also unlocked the bulldog and could not make it work. The wierd thing is the tier 8 German one I do ok In.

Trauglodyte #9 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 15:59

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View PostWoland, on Jun 15 2020 - 15:28, said:

Yesterday I started playing in the morning.

 

I won 1 out of my first 8 matches. A chimpanzee can do better.

 

But then I won 13 of the next 16 to finish the day 14 for 24.

Clearly, the game is rigged against the chimpanzees and everyone on those other 13 teams. 

There was no way me simply changing tanks and focusing, saying to myself, "Damage, then kills, then survive, then win" and trying to do things in that order could possibly have helped.

unless . . .

This is the secret mantra of the WoT religion.

The Russians knowww. 

It's no coincidence the first letter in Russia is an R and the first letter in RNGesus is also an R. 

 

Happy tankin, y'all

 

 

What tank(s) were you playing?  I ask this because there is no rigging.  I've looked at a list of close to 100 games, that I played, and the difference in numbers of games played, between teams, is largely irrelevant.  The number of new players, per team, is very close.

 

Let me put forth, several things:

 

1- You're an above average player BUT your stats are kept afloat, by your 3,315 games in the M4A1 Sherman.  This is not a shame - I LOVE the "round hull" Sherman.

2- In respect, to the M4A1 Sherman, you're playing in the world of new players and/or players that can't hack or don't enjoy higher tiers.

3- That, in turn, means that the swing impact, of those types of players, is going to be massive, thus leading to cascade failures and successes.

 

What you're determining, to be rigged games, is rather the coalescence of stupidity, on one side or the other.  Let me drop some data bombs on you.

 

In this month, I've run into the following, while marking lower tier tanks:

 

6/3 - took 9 games, in my VK 36.01 H, to get my +1

6/3 - took 21 games, in my DW2, to get my +1, which resulted in a 1.5% loss, in win rate 

6/7 - took 10 games, of seesawing l/w back and forth games in my VK 30.01 H, before I gave up trying to get my +1

6/8 - took 9 games, in my VK 30.01 H, to get my +1

6/9 - took 11 games, in my VK 30.01 H, to get my +1

6/10 - took 18 games, of seesawing l/w back and forth games in my Pz. IV H, before I gave up

6/11 - took 15 games, in my Panther II, to get my +1

6/12 - took 12 games, of seesawing l/w back and forth games in my VK 30.01 H, before I gave up

6/12 - took 17 games, in my Panther II, to get my +1

6/13 - took 23 games, in my Pz. IV H, to get my +1 (and it humped my win rate)

6/13 - took 29 games, in my VK 30.02 M, to get my +1 (and it super humped my win rate)

 

In all of those games, I averaged a damage position of 2.78, so I was carrying all of those games.  Sometimes, no matter how hard you play, you get humped by the mistakes and transgressions of your teammates.  What combats that is making right decisions at the right time and doing so quickly.  You need, to understand, that you have to be a combination of aggressive and passive - you need aggression, to get early damage and to hopefully make your opponents think twice about what they'd otherwise do, AND passive, because you cannot risk your tank, because the tomato community will not carry you, should you fail.

 

At the end of the day, do the best that you can do but understand that it isn't always going to go your way.



I_QQ_4_U #10 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 16:17

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View Postlarrytdale1965, on Jun 15 2020 - 15:52, said:

PRIME EXAMPLE of rigged....last match there were only 5 of us on my team that were above 10k battles the other 10 players were below 1k battles but the opposing team had all players above 15 k battles with one player at 101k battle.......how is this not rigged and or fair

 

 

 

First off look up what rigged means, second look up what random means.



__WarChild__ #11 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 16:19

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People get mixed up between rigged (whatever that is) and predetermined.  Since MM doesn't take anything about skill into account, it throws teams together based upon tank type.  Most of the time, the composition of the teams sets the outcome at the start.  Nothing can be done about this.  But luckily, according to all math experts on here, we all get exactly the same MM over the course of 200,000 battles.  So there's that...

 

:amazed:

 

__WarChild__



TheJeep1 #12 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 16:21

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View PostWoland, on Jun 15 2020 - 06:28, said:

Yesterday I started playing in the morning.

 

I won 1 out of my first 8 matches. A chimpanzee can do better.

 

But then I won 13 of the next 16 to finish the day 14 for 24.

Clearly, the game is rigged against the chimpanzees and everyone on those other 13 teams. 

There was no way me simply changing tanks and focusing, saying to myself, "Damage, then kills, then survive, then win" and trying to do things in that order could possibly have helped.

unless . . .

This is the secret mantra of the WoT religion.

The Russians knowww. 

It's no coincidence the first letter in Russia is an R and the first letter in RNGesus is also an R. 

 

Happy tankin, y'all

 


Math sucks.



Woland #13 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 16:22

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View PostTrauglodyte, on Jun 15 2020 - 08:59, said:

 

What tank(s) were you playing?  I ask this because there is no rigging.  I've looked at a list of close to 100 games, that I played, and the difference in numbers of games played, between teams, is largely irrelevant.  The number of new players, per team, is very close.

 

Let me put forth, several things:

 

1- You're an above average player BUT your stats are kept afloat, by your 3,315 games in the M4A1 Sherman.  This is not a shame - I LOVE the "round hull" Sherman.

2- In respect, to the M4A1 Sherman, you're playing in the world of new players and/or players that can't hack or don't enjoy higher tiers.

3- That, in turn, means that the swing impact, of those types of players, is going to be massive, thus leading to cascade failures and successes.

 

What you're determining, to be rigged games, is rather the coalescence of stupidity, on one side or the other.  Let me drop some data bombs on you.

 

In this month, I've run into the following, while marking lower tier tanks:

 

6/3 - took 9 games, in my VK 36.01 H, to get my +1

6/3 - took 21 games, in my DW2, to get my +1, which resulted in a 1.5% loss, in win rate 

6/7 - took 10 games, of seesawing l/w back and forth games in my VK 30.01 H, before I gave up trying to get my +1

6/8 - took 9 games, in my VK 30.01 H, to get my +1

6/9 - took 11 games, in my VK 30.01 H, to get my +1

6/10 - took 18 games, of seesawing l/w back and forth games in my Pz. IV H, before I gave up

6/11 - took 15 games, in my Panther II, to get my +1

6/12 - took 12 games, of seesawing l/w back and forth games in my VK 30.01 H, before I gave up

6/12 - took 17 games, in my Panther II, to get my +1

6/13 - took 23 games, in my Pz. IV H, to get my +1 (and it humped my win rate)

6/13 - took 29 games, in my VK 30.02 M, to get my +1 (and it super humped my win rate)

 

In all of those games, I averaged a damage position of 2.78, so I was carrying all of those games.  Sometimes, no matter how hard you play, you get humped by the mistakes and transgressions of your teammates.  What combats that is making right decisions at the right time and doing so quickly.  You need, to understand, that you have to be a combination of aggressive and passive - you need aggression, to get early damage and to hopefully make your opponents think twice about what they'd otherwise do, AND passive, because you cannot risk your tank, because the tomato community will not carry you, should you fail.

 

At the end of the day, do the best that you can do but understand that it isn't always going to go your way.

 

Perhaps I should have ended with #sarcasm or /sarcasm. LOL

 

As for the M4. I haven't played it all that much lately... 11 times in last 1,000 games. I have been grinding lines I didn't care to before, primarily swedish, polish, and italian... so lower tiers, different play styles, etc hurt me as far as wn8. Yesterday I think I primarily played Leo, 53TP, progetto 46 and udes 03 (which I am awful in 28% WR). 

 

To go from 1/8 to 14/24 (which means roughly 12% wr to 58% wr--of which I am neither that bad nor that good) doesn't indicate rigging. It simply means things average out over time. IMHO.

 

No one ever posts the game is rigged when it works in their favor...except me. haha



Woland #14 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 16:24

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View PostTheJeep1, on Jun 15 2020 - 09:21, said:


Math sucks.

 

you have a Jeep?

I got a 17 JK.



Trauglodyte #15 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 16:31

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View PostWoland, on Jun 15 2020 - 16:22, said:

 

Perhaps I should have ended with #sarcasm or /sarcasm. LOL

 

As for the M4. I haven't played it all that much lately... 11 times in last 1,000 games. I have been grinding lines I didn't care to before, primarily swedish, polish, and italian... so lower tiers, different play styles, etc hurt me as far as wn8. Yesterday I think I primarily played Leo, 53TP, progetto 46 and udes 03 (which I am awful in 28% WR). 

 

To go from 1/8 to 14/24 (which means roughly 12% wr to 58% wr--of which I am neither that bad nor that good) doesn't indicate rigging. It simply means things average out over time. IMHO.

 

No one ever posts the game is rigged when it works in their favor...except me. haha

 

Ah!  I missed the humor/sarcasm, in your post.  With all of the "its rigged" crap, floating around, it is hard to decipher what is and isn't.  You got me! 



Whyld #16 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 16:34

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View PostRMxR, on Jun 15 2020 - 08:46, said:

Actually the order should be: "surviving, damage, kills, win"


That is incorrect.



SemanticChicanery #17 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 16:51

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View Postcthulhu_hunter, on Jun 15 2020 - 15:36, said:

Of course game is rigged, so blatantly obvious. MM intentionally puts a better team vs a poorer team to make battles as short as possible. MM also rigs game by putting a tier 8 in tier 10 battle. If you play tier 4 through tier 8, you will be bottom tier in a 2 tier spread most of the time (+-75% of the time). Game is based on imbalance, it is written in the code. As always.......gg MM.

 

If you ascribe to this nonsense, why would you keep playing it? that's the true mystery



umkhulu #18 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 16:52

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View PostMarkd73, on Jun 15 2020 - 15:48, said:


As usual...any objective non-anecdotal data sets to back up any of these claims?

 

Feelz don't count.

 

Over 900 battles, tiers 4 and 5  are looking like this.....

 

Posted Image

 

Not quite 75%, but 60% is demoralizing enough, especially since over 50% of those bottom tier games were 2 tiers down.

 

I'm not quite sure why you still insist on calling it 'feelz' when I have shown these figures time and time again!. I'm wondering if you have any data which says otherwise - if so, please share.

 

'Feelz' provides an accurate indicator of how players perceive the game!.... :)

 



SemanticChicanery #19 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 16:54

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View PostTrauglodyte, on Jun 15 2020 - 15:59, said:

 

What tank(s) were you playing?  I ask this because there is no rigging.  I've looked at a list of close to 100 games, that I played, and the difference in numbers of games played, between teams, is largely irrelevant.  The number of new players, per team, is very close.

 

Let me put forth, several things:

 

1- You're an above average player BUT your stats are kept afloat, by your 3,315 games in the M4A1 Sherman.  This is not a shame - I LOVE the "round hull" Sherman.

2- In respect, to the M4A1 Sherman, you're playing in the world of new players and/or players that can't hack or don't enjoy higher tiers.

3- That, in turn, means that the swing impact, of those types of players, is going to be massive, thus leading to cascade failures and successes.

 

What you're determining, to be rigged games, is rather the coalescence of stupidity, on one side or the other.  Let me drop some data bombs on you.

 

In this month, I've run into the following, while marking lower tier tanks:

 

6/3 - took 9 games, in my VK 36.01 H, to get my +1

6/3 - took 21 games, in my DW2, to get my +1, which resulted in a 1.5% loss, in win rate 

6/7 - took 10 games, of seesawing l/w back and forth games in my VK 30.01 H, before I gave up trying to get my +1

6/8 - took 9 games, in my VK 30.01 H, to get my +1

6/9 - took 11 games, in my VK 30.01 H, to get my +1

6/10 - took 18 games, of seesawing l/w back and forth games in my Pz. IV H, before I gave up

6/11 - took 15 games, in my Panther II, to get my +1

6/12 - took 12 games, of seesawing l/w back and forth games in my VK 30.01 H, before I gave up

6/12 - took 17 games, in my Panther II, to get my +1

6/13 - took 23 games, in my Pz. IV H, to get my +1 (and it humped my win rate)

6/13 - took 29 games, in my VK 30.02 M, to get my +1 (and it super humped my win rate)

 

In all of those games, I averaged a damage position of 2.78, so I was carrying all of those games.  Sometimes, no matter how hard you play, you get humped by the mistakes and transgressions of your teammates.  What combats that is making right decisions at the right time and doing so quickly.  You need, to understand, that you have to be a combination of aggressive and passive - you need aggression, to get early damage and to hopefully make your opponents think twice about what they'd otherwise do, AND passive, because you cannot risk your tank, because the tomato community will not carry you, should you fail.

 

At the end of the day, do the best that you can do but understand that it isn't always going to go your way.

 

Super great post.



spud_tuber #20 Posted Jun 15 2020 - 16:54

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View Post__WarChild__, on Jun 15 2020 - 09:19, said:

People get mixed up between rigged (whatever that is) and predetermined.  Since MM doesn't take anything about skill into account, it throws teams together based upon tank type.  Most of the time, the composition of the teams sets the outcome at the start.  Nothing can be done about this.  But luckily, according to all math experts on here, we all get exactly the same MM over the course of 200,000 battles.  So there's that...

 

:amazed:

 

__WarChild__

Takes a lot less than 200,000 battles, orders of magnitude less.  2,000 will be plenty close enough, even 200 won't leave a lot of outliers, though it will certainly leave some.  IMO, it is certainly better than getting worse teammates and better opponents the better I play, while people(you'll notice I didn't say players) like hordsleen get better teammates and worse opponents the more they yolo.

 

Or, put another way, I'd rather my recent (as in last ~1k, which was picked in part because of how rare outliers would be at 1k) winrate be a measure of how much better(or worse) than the average player I am because everyone is being compared to the average player. 

 

I would rather not have it be a measure of whether I'm improving, static, or getting worse, with distance from "average" indicating the speed of said change because the balancing algorithm hasn't caught up to my current performance, and I'm being compared to my own average performance. 







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