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[ S T ] Wheeled Vehicle Nerfs!

KRZY wheeled vehicles changes nerf nerfs

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cloudwalking #21 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 17:17

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Boy, it's almost like this could have all been figured out with a proper super test and then listening to the players in the beginning.   What a concept.

 

It's about time WG got off their asses.

 

Edit:  These nerfs will do a whole lot of good if you guys go through with the equipment rebalance and allow them to increase their mobility like some of that equipment did.  I have 0 faith, NONE, that you guys.  You may give superficial nerfs but as soon as they can equip some of that new equipment...they'll be just as stupid, if not more so than they are now.  It's clear with every stream that you guys are going down a rabbit whole that you'll never get out of.


Edited by cloudwalking, Jun 24 2020 - 17:29.


cloudwalking #22 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 17:23

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View Post__WarChild__, on Jun 24 2020 - 15:39, said:

Removing them is the best option.  Just let the Tier VIII premiums remain in the game so you don't have to give any money back.  Problems solved.

 

Sadly they will never do this.  I also thought it was funny how just the tier 9 and X got nerfed but not the tier 8 or permium.  Premium ebr is one of the more broken tanks in the game and will never be changed.  WG are real characters at this point.

 

They've screwed their game up so much that it's impossible for them to bring imo.



Groogrux_Lite #23 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 17:30

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The staleness of the game you all desperately seek to maintain is exactly why this game is dying.  Happens with complacency, every time.

nyakavt #24 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 17:31

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It's not perfect, these things still have way too much bs going for them (autoaim, ridiculous maneuverability, black hole wheel armor, etc.).  But this is at least a step in the right direction.  These things have been the single biggest cancer on the game since they became popular and are miserable to play against.  I'm glad for any nerf, and hoping it's not the last.

SlappedbyRommel #25 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 18:40

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View PostSlappedbyPatton, on Jun 24 2020 - 14:54, said:

LOL .....

 

this is why I gave up on WOT  long ago.... , first they release a broken tank , that everyone grabs  then nerf ...

 

BAIT AND SWITCH ...

 

I love how they put the FL10 up for sale just before the last segment of Front lines...just to squeak out more sales...

 

anyhow

Damn your still alive thought you had moved to Alaska? Get back on Discord you wiener....lol



SlappedbyRommel #26 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 18:42

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View Postcloudwalking, on Jun 24 2020 - 17:23, said:

 

Sadly they will never do this.  I also thought it was funny how just the tier 9 and X got nerfed but not the tier 8 or permium.  Premium ebr is one of the more broken tanks in the game and will never be changed.  WG are real characters at this point.

 

They've screwed their game up so much that it's impossible for them to bring imo.

Wait a minute you may be wrong WG will just bring a better OP tank or wheelie just wait and see...…...more money



VooDooKobra #27 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 18:47

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View Postcloudwalking, on Jun 24 2020 - 09:23, said:

 

Sadly they will never do this.  I also thought it was funny how just the tier 9 and X got nerfed but not the tier 8 or permium.  Premium ebr is one of the more broken tanks in the game and will never be changed.  WG are real characters at this point.

 

They've screwed their game up so much that it's impossible for them to bring imo.

the lynx though really is not a problem to kill, its speed isnt nuts and there is more than enough hull to hit without the wheels being an issue.  i do though get why they are hesitant to remove a line since you will then get all they arty haters chiming in going ok you removed that now remove arty



Pink_Unicorn_Alpha #28 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 19:20

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well looks like ebr 105 is just going to sit in the back now with all the rest of tanks since everyone is going to be able to hit it .. no point in trying to scout in it. Guess regular light tanks are back on the plate. But should make some good games to see players faces when ebr s just sit in the back now. So does this mean it gets it double shot back? and will it get more pen added to its standard round? 190 pen is a joke at tier 10 . Because at this point it wont really be useful anymore unless u give it some pen on the gun. It wont really get much anywhere now considering the nerf is really just going to make it unplayable


Edited by Pink_Unicorn_Alpha, Jun 24 2020 - 19:28.


Pink_Unicorn_Alpha #29 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 19:46

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Make sure to up the pen on the gun since most ebrs are going to camp now. The gun needs pen buff. No reason to give it tier 8 pen while its being nerfed . So giving it tier 10 pen only seems logical now. Also while ur at it remove camo on tds and meds that can some how scout ebrs before there seen... Oh wait ur nerfing the view range too? ok well seems tds meds heavys need to get a view range nerf now too right?

Cowcat137 #30 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 21:11

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The first hit damages the tire and speed, the second hit does more....

 

How about the first hit by anything resemblng a tank gun breaks it in half, kills the crew and ends it ?  No complicated formulas.

 

These things maybe should handle multiple 20mm hits, maybe.



RHeadshot #31 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 21:28

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View Postcloudwalking, on Jun 24 2020 - 17:23, said:

 

Sadly they will never do this.  I also thought it was funny how just the tier 9 and X got nerfed but not the tier 8 or permium.  Premium ebr is one of the more broken tanks in the game and will never be changed.  WG are real characters at this point.

 

They've screwed their game up so much that it's impossible for them to bring imo.

Maybe if someone working at the company, any of them, averaged more than 78 games a month over 5 years, they'd actually understand just how bad they are at WG.



VooDooKobra #32 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 21:32

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View PostCowcat137, on Jun 24 2020 - 13:11, said:

The first hit damages the tire and speed, the second hit does more....

 

How about the first hit by anything resemblng a tank gun breaks it in half, kills the crew and ends it ?  No complicated formulas.

 

These things maybe should handle multiple 20mm hits, maybe.

then maybe this should apply to thin skinned TD and light tanks as well.  why should the m26 scorpion be able to stand any shots by a tank, any shot should be death.  of course if we go that route why not just get rid of hp and be like wt where anything can be a one shot kill


Edited by VooDooKobra, Jun 24 2020 - 21:33.


RHeadshot #33 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 22:28

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View PostVooDooKobra, on Jun 24 2020 - 21:32, said:

then maybe this should apply to thin skinned TD and light tanks as well.  why should the m26 scorpion be able to stand any shots by a tank, any shot should be death.  of course if we go that route why not just get rid of hp and be like wt where anything can be a one shot kill

Wow.  Are you really claiming that a freaking glorified pick up truck should be killed just as easily as a heavy tank?



Badkarma #34 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 22:49

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View PostGroogrux_Lite, on Jun 24 2020 - 17:30, said:

The staleness of the game you all desperately seek to maintain is exactly why this game is dying.  Happens with complacency, every time.

So funny and yet completely illustrative of the issue. 48% overall player with 61.40% WR in EBR75; of course you don't want them nerfed you've discovered that you can increase your WR by 13% with them. Now tell me they're not over performing....



VooDooKobra #35 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 23:21

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View PostRHeadshot, on Jun 24 2020 - 14:28, said:

Wow.  Are you really claiming that a freaking glorified pick up truck should be killed just as easily as a heavy tank?

In warthunder anything can be a one shot kill.  Hitting a weak spot on a heavy can be a killing shot that is where I like the HP system better.  I am not saying it should be that way just the idea of making up meaningless for wheelies is silly.  Especially when you have vehicles with even less armor.  Sorry I confused you with my sarcasm



Avalon304 #36 Posted Jun 24 2020 - 23:36

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Its a start. If the speed changes are treated as a game mechanic change and affect the tier 8 premium as well, then it'll probably be fine.

Mikosah #37 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 01:37

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The trick here is that the few key traits that make the armored cars hard to damage are the only things that make them viable to begin with. Take away the speed, and you defeat the purpose for them existing in the first place. As of view range, that's a tricky subject because generally the wheelies are very blind as it is. The one thing that the devs didn't seem to anticipate is that if you stack all the possible view range buffs you can make the high tier armored cars have good view range, but food and bond equipment are expensive and the tactic requires an outstanding crew. There is a subset of players who've been doing this while many others have not, leading to a divide between some armored cars being mediocre scouts at best, while others are ridiculously effective.

 

I think the best compromise is simply to fix some obvious inconsistencies. For one, the improved autoaim and resistance to fall damage should have been features applied to every single tank in the game. Secondly, that just about any tank shell that collides with a wheel should destroy it very consistently. HE in particular should easily take out multiple wheels via splash damage alone. The other thing is that whatever factor is causing the suspension to act as spaced armor should be nullified. Make the shell interactions consistent and believable, and that alone would solve a significant portion of this problem.



Avalon304 #38 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 04:06

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View PostMikosah, on Jun 24 2020 - 17:37, said:

The trick here is that the few key traits that make the armored cars hard to damage are the only things that make them viable to begin with. Take away the speed, and you defeat the purpose for them existing in the first place. As of view range, that's a tricky subject because generally the wheelies are very blind as it is. The one thing that the devs didn't seem to anticipate is that if you stack all the possible view range buffs you can make the high tier armored cars have good view range, but food and bond equipment are expensive and the tactic requires an outstanding crew. There is a subset of players who've been doing this while many others have not, leading to a divide between some armored cars being mediocre scouts at best, while others are ridiculously effective.

 

I think the best compromise is simply to fix some obvious inconsistencies. For one, the improved autoaim and resistance to fall damage should have been features applied to every single tank in the game. Secondly, that just about any tank shell that collides with a wheel should destroy it very consistently. HE in particular should easily take out multiple wheels via splash damage alone. The other thing is that whatever factor is causing the suspension to act as spaced armor should be nullified. Make the shell interactions consistent and believable, and that alone would solve a significant portion of this problem.

 

I mean its their speed in combination with their camo and view range that give them some of the best effective view range of any light tank. Take away the speed and they still have nonsensical camo for tanks of their size, with view range that while less than most lights at tier isnt actually that much worse overall.

 

The EBR is huge. It not the size of a Sheridan, but its the size of the AMX 13 105, and of the WZ-132-1. And yet it has camo far far better than them. With my tanks as I have them equipped, my EBR 105 has ~44% camo. My Manticore, which is a tiny tiny tank, has ~45% camo and my 13 105 has 37% camo, and my WZ-132-1 has 31% camo and my T-100 has 39% camo. Somehow the larger EBR has better camo than the T-100 and Manticore and far better camo than tanks of similar size... and it doesnt actually pay for it with significantly worse view range because it can reach the view range cap of 445.

 

At tier 9 the EBR 90 has the best camo of any light tank. Period. And despite it only being able to max out at roughtly 420m view range (or 434m with improved equipment), its not really all that hindered by it, because its so sneaky and it can get closer without being seen.

 

Their speed isnt what makes them viable. Their camo and effective scouting ability is. The low-ish view range isnt the downside that it was made out to be, precisely because they have so much camo that they can get closer than anything else without getting seen. The only EBR that can even get close to "good" view range at their tier is the 105, which can exceed 445 with all the good boosts equipped, but even without them, its still a wildly effective scout, because it can get closer without being seen.

 

Their high top end speed is the problem, especially on maps as small as we have, because the huge gap between them and other lights lets them get to positions to spot everyone on the enemy team before anyone is even close to in position (on some maps its so quick that most enemies havent even left spawn). This alongside that the game engine has never handled objects moving at high speed particularly well. (There is a reason the original T-50-2 was removed, because it was a lot like the EBRs are now). These changes are a good start to fixing their broken mobility, the other change I would make it requiring them to come to a standstill to repair any broken wheels (wither automatically or with a kit).



bake3020 #39 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 04:15

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View PostDREAD_PIRATE_R0BERTS, on Jun 24 2020 - 15:25, said:

Handle it like the SuperPershing nerf.  Gold refunds to those who ask for them. 

 

The other problem is that when you shoot the wheel of an EBR the round stops and doesn't penetrate the hull of the vehicle ending up with a no-damage hit.  Tanks can be tracked through the front wheel and still receive damage.  That needs to be changed on the wheelies. 

Great suggestion and one they need to take to heart.



bake3020 #40 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 04:18

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View Postcloudwalking, on Jun 24 2020 - 16:17, said:

Boy, it's almost like this could have all been figured out with a proper super test and then listening to the players in the beginning.   What a concept.

 

It's about time WG got off their asses.

 

Edit:  These nerfs will do a whole lot of good if you guys go through with the equipment rebalance and allow them to increase their mobility like some of that equipment did.  I have 0 faith, NONE, that you guys.  You may give superficial nerfs but as soon as they can equip some of that new equipment...they'll be just as stupid, if not more so than they are now.  It's clear with every stream that you guys are going down a rabbit whole that you'll never get out of.

Well, there is no "PROPER SUPERTEST" when it's only done by RU server testers and I don't care whether they work for WG or not.  Any player, on any server should be able to rotate in and out and help test new vehicles, not just the select golden boys on a particular server.  This is why they have issues that have to be fixed down the road, improper testing.


Edited by bake3020, Jun 25 2020 - 04:18.






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