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Do I suck or do I REALLY suck?

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Woland #1 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 16:08

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The title is rhetorical. 

 

I encourage you to read this. Hopefully, it will be short.  I will try to make this easy

 

There are four levels of competence.

 

Incognizant-Incompetent

Cognizant-Incompetent

Cognizant-competent

Incognizant-competent

 

Incognizant-Incompetent The Incognizant incompetent person is bad at something, but doesn't know he or she is bad. Consequently, they never try to improve.

 

Cognizant-Incompetent The Cognizant incompetent person is bad at something, he or she knows they are incompetent, but they don't know how (or even care) to fix it or are trying to fix it, but are still in a stage of incompetence.

 

Cognizant-competent The Cognizant competent person is competent, however, they have to think about what they are doing and make a concerted effort to maintain their competence and complete their mission, task, job, etc

 

Incognizant-competent The Incognizant competent person knows they are competent and are so competent, they no longer need to think about what they are doing to accomplish their task at hand. It is second nature for them. 

 

The goal for everyone, regardless of  whether it is a game, a job, or whatever, should be to reach incognizant competence. For most people playing this game (I'm assuming most are over 16) you are probably an incognizant competent driver. If you remember when you started, you were horrible... Some kids know they are bad drivers, others don't. So, some are incognizant while others are cognizant incompetent.

As you took your driving lessons and learned, you had to think about staying between the lines, using your mirrors, pressing the clutch and/or brake at the right time, etc. You were cognizant competent. You were doing fine, just had to think about it. Now, you hop in the car, drive, check your phone, pop some music on, your eyes flash to the mirrors 30 times a minute and you don't even know it. 

 

There are so many whine and moan threads here. 

I invite you to look at the info above and consider which you are.

 

 

I confess:

I am cognizant-incompetent. I am not a good player. I am average. I know I'm a mediocre player, but I am trying to get better. I can't remember, but it was either the 8k or 13k mark where I realized, "I suck." I think my WN7 (?) back then was around 830.

 

Especially in the beginning, I couldn't understand why heavies didn't just use their armor and rush right out into the fray. At that time, in 2011, some did. The KV-1 would often run into the middle of a bunch of tier 2 and 3 tanks and carry. But I wasn't aware of the game mechanics, weak spots, pen, or anything else. I thought all heavies were alike--with a little russian bias, lol--but could do the same things. About the time of my awakening, I was told about the lower glacis. What??? Then I started aiming for spots on a tank instead of pointing and clicking.

 

I know and see from people on the forums they don't care, they don't want to study tanks or watch good players. They just want to have fun. Often, these are the same people who claim MM is rigged against them and the game is no longer fun. I would hazard a bold guess that it is no longer fun because many others they used to play against moved into one of the competent categories while they remain in the incompetent stages. That isn't meant as a dig at them, as I recognize I am there with them, incompetent. While I sometimes find the game frustrating due to a large number of <1,000 game players in tier 8+, I still find it a fun game. I am still around. I started the day Beta let out... then got perma-banned shortly after... I think I joined a clan named after an authentic German division or took on a real name. I don't know if it has changed, but at that time WG was in Russia and the law forbid anyone from doing or saying anything that might glorify nazi Germany. After a few weeks of begging for my account back, I started this one. LOL.

 

point is--all these years later, it's still fun... more fun and more challenging now. Now that I know how bad I am and struggle to git gud. It is a team game. Some teams are bad. Some are great. That balances out. Ultimately, for me, it is a personal challenge. As I think, recall knowledge, and try new things, I am able to improve my PR and WN8, which have gone down since grinding new lines. But more importantly, I am able to carry some of those matches that should have been losses. Maybe not all, but some... and carrying or turning 1 match from a loss to a win is a good feeling.

 

 

EDIT: I had intended to add the difference between players who suck and really suck is incognizant vs cognizant incompetence. Some of us may suck, but we know and try to improve. Some really suck, we are incompetent, but think we are competent and refuse to listen or try to improve. because we believe we are good and our stats would show it if we just had better MM, teams, RNG, cookies while playing, etc.

 


Edited by Woland, Jun 25 2020 - 19:09.


1stTanks #2 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 16:16

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Don’t sell yourself short bud. I’d say you’re cognizant competent. You are making an effort to learn and improve. You aren’t necessarily bad at the game, you just need education in certain areas. 
 

Regardless the game should be about what’s fun for you. As you expressed. 



_Tsavo_ #3 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 16:18

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I'd put myself as Cognizant-competent, I make too many mistakes to be incognizant-competent 

LeaveIT2Beaver #4 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 16:21

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You are marvelous.  Your wall of text sucks

Markd73 #5 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 16:22

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The fact that acknowledge that your are not good at this game is the first step in improving. The moment you start externalizing your own failures (ie MM is rigged, team is to blame, etc) then you are no longer taking responsibility for your own mistakes. It just becomes easier and easier to blame everything and everyone but yourself for your bad play.

 

Yes it is a team game and yes there are bad teams. We all get them. The only constant is your own performance over a large enough sample size of games. That is the point that many people miss. Winrate and WN8 are long term measures of performance, and can vary wildly over a small sample size. That is where most of the negativity/confirmation bias kicks in and people start getting mad and blaming everything but themselves.

 

I am very meh at this game, and in fact I am getting worse. I admit it to myself and publicly on the forum. The trick is to keep trying to improve.



FLCN #6 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 16:35

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I can relate with what you said a lot. I was lucky enough to learn fast and before 10k games, but even the fact that you are aware is great. I am far from a great player, but Id like to say Im good now. I was just like you 6 months ago and now I'm better. It takes time but if you truly want to learn like it seems you do, find good players to platoon with and watch good players on youtube or twitch. You clearly know how to get better, and by the sound of it you are learning a lot so keep it up

Cowcat137 #7 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 16:52

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What about the incontinent cognizants?

AllieOop2 #8 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 17:14

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I don't know about your wall of text. I do know I play a game an enjoy it most of the time. I don't want to plunge into a thesis on any of it. Your post is well done and I guess if I wasn't so ambivalent about all stuff like this I might have a better reply than this but I do not.

stubmw #9 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 17:45

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OP, you post can best be summed up by something I read on a Chinee fortune cookie:

“He who knows not,
and knows not that he knows not,
is a fool; shun him.

He who knows not,
and knows that he knows not,
is a student; Teach him.

He who knows,
and knows not that he knows,
is asleep; Wake him.

He who knows,
and knows that he knows,
is Wise; Follow him.”

So say Confucius!

 

 
 


Trauglodyte #10 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 17:49

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View PostCowcat137, on Jun 25 2020 - 16:52, said:

What about the incontinent cognizants?

 

They make meds for your pee pee problems ;)

 

Woland, this game isn't necessarily a game of skill.  Now, that'll piss people off but understand that I know there is skill, in this game.  Rather, we have a general idea of how to apply things.  But, the overall issue, of skill, is not making the same mistakes.  Like others, in this topic, I make bonehead moves.  The "skill" is your internal co-pilot telling you that what you're thinking about doing is a bad idea AND that you're also telling yourself why it is a bad idea.  Pun aside, Skill4ltu is a great player but, beside the skill shown in game, the true measure of skill is shown when he speaks about what he's doing and why, before he does it.

 

So, don't beat yourself up, Woland.  We're all in the same boat.



Youdda #11 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 17:55

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You left out Cognizant-Incompetent-unambitious - The Cognizant incompetent unambitious person is bad at something, he or she knows they are incompetent, but they don't want to bother to fix it.

 

This would be me. I am not actively trying to improve. I just have fun playing!



PickelFlavoredCookies #12 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 17:59

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I am all the above 

AllieOop2 #13 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 18:13

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View Poststubmw, on Jun 25 2020 - 17:45, said:

OP, you post can best be summed up by something I read on a Chinee fortune cookie:

“He who knows not,
and knows not that he knows not,
is a fool; shun him.

He who knows not,
and knows that he knows not,
is a student; Teach him.

He who knows,
and knows not that he knows,
is asleep; Wake him.

He who knows,
and knows that he knows,
is Wise; Follow him.”

So say Confucius!

 

 
 


Big cookie mine always has one line.



Tao_Te_Hobbit #14 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 18:23

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View PostCowcat137, on Jun 25 2020 - 08:52, said:

What about the incontinent cognizants?

 

Thank you for not going for the name-and-shame on that one.

 

Posting for a friend. 



Otter_von_Bismarck #15 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 18:30

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Incognizant-competent does not exist. There's nobody in this game that can turn their brain off and succeed. Really good players don't have to think about certain things, because they just instinctively know, but they're still thinking hard throughout the match. The very best players still make mistakes because they don't think a decision through or they get too overconfident.

BoghieWanKanobie #16 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 18:38

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Kinda 'Cognizant-Incompetent'...

 

But, slowly, haltingly, and painfully moving to 'Cognizant-Competent'

 

Don't know if I will ever get there.  I fall off the wagon so many times it is unbelievable.  It is rare(ish) when I don't know why I sucked or dominated (kinda) a game, but it is rare for me to consistently make the right decisions in the time I have to make that decision.  My worst weaknesses are in those fast micro-decisions during a one on one fight.  Almost always I seem to make some dumb move and die an early death.  And, one of the dumb moves always seems to be an earlier choice that resulted in some dumb one on one dance of death.

 

Please Lord, I pray for 'Cognizant-Competent'



Woland #17 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 19:00

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View PostThe_Lost_Cause, on Jun 25 2020 - 09:21, said:

You are marvelous.  Your wall of text sucks

LOL. want me to read it to you? :)

 

Seriously... 

 

the 1st half is the important one. I want people to consider where they are on the scale.

I just called myself out so no one thinks I am hateful, hypocritical or deluding myself.



Woland #18 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 19:02

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View PostCowcat137, on Jun 25 2020 - 09:52, said:

What about the incontinent cognizants?

mewh. They smell like crap and they know it



Einzelganger7 #19 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 19:16

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I am "Cognizant-Incompetent" with no doubt, I am aware that I commit mistakes and I try to improve but I feel incompetent because I am not skilled in all classes, TDs I do well, medium and heavy not bad but I suck at light tanks and this is why I feel incompetent, because it seems like it is the meta class nowadays (along fast mediums) but I can't get the hang of them that I am even stuck on the very first StuG IV campaign since I started playing, I got quite fast with honors the TD, medium, and Heavy missions by casually playing but I am still at something like 11/15 with lights, but I haven't tried using them since more than a year ago, so maybe I'd be a Cognizant-Apathetic instead, and I feel apathy for using light tanks and completing campaigns mostly because none of the reward tanks interest me at all.

Woland #20 Posted Jun 25 2020 - 19:21

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View PostOtter_von_Bismarck, on Jun 25 2020 - 11:30, said:

Incognizant-competent does not exist. There's nobody in this game that can turn their brain off and succeed. Really good players don't have to think about certain things, because they just instinctively know, but they're still thinking hard throughout the match. The very best players still make mistakes because they don't think a decision through or they get too overconfident.

 

I see your point. And I agree, they still make mistakes, just as drivers do. I have killed some unicums because they underestimated me or made a mistake. 

Yes, good players have to think just as good chess players must think. But it is the "instinctively know," the ability to predict actions/reactions quickly, the quick read of a map without having to consciously process "Maybe I should go over there because that side looks weak," the "Where do I aim on the KV4?" question that is not actually pondered...

That is what makes people like you and QB and others I-C. Yes, as new tanks and the rare new map come out, you have to learn/adjust, but you have that basic knowledge of game play and mechanics so deeply learned you do not need to think about those things. Situations, yes, of course.

 

Didn't mean to imply you don't think if that's how you took it. 







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