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EBR and the future of WOT

EBR Rant stupid wargaming

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_tar #21 Posted Jul 04 2020 - 21:09

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View Postdjb_95, on Jul 04 2020 - 12:43, said:

That is the core of the problem. The EBR's decide the game. As an over-generalization, teams sit back, scatter every which way, hug the red lines, and wait a few minutes to see how the EBR vs EBR battle plays out. If your EBRs win, your team wins. If your EBRs lose, your team loses. If they play to a draw, you can start playing 'normally' only with several minutes gone from your remaining playtime.

 

So, it makes for longer games... you have to be more patient in the first few minutes.... and no, the winning EBR does not generate an auto-win for that team or increase the odds. It just means the better player was in that EBR, and if we didn't have EBRs, the better player would have been in some other tank and still helped his team in some other way.

 

And so, we get longer games... Isn't that what everyone cries about, the games being too short?



TVWizard2 #22 Posted Jul 04 2020 - 21:14

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Wheeled vehicles should have to come to a complete and total stop in order to use any sort of repair kit or medical kit

 

ez fix



uBleed2 #23 Posted Jul 04 2020 - 21:16

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View PostGeorgePreddy, on Jul 04 2020 - 15:44, said:

I like my EBRs. When I play them, they are not OP at all. They are a lot of fun, though.

 

They better not nerf the tier 8 PREMIUM FL10 that I paid dollars for !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And by play them, you mean stare at them in between your seal clubbing.

 

Can't help to wonder how many out of your 14,680 games are with you playing a tier 8+ tank.



BEASTY_BUCKEYE #24 Posted Jul 04 2020 - 21:22

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I'm glad there getting nerfed, no more race cars in wot will be a good thing.

MightyBarbarian #25 Posted Jul 04 2020 - 21:28

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View PostGeorgePreddy, on Jul 04 2020 - 09:44, said:

I like my EBRs. When I play them, they are not OP at all. They are a lot of fun, though.

 

They better not nerf the tier 8 PREMIUM FL10 that I paid dollars for !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Or else?



spud_tuber #26 Posted Jul 04 2020 - 21:41

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View Postjackbatt04, on Jul 04 2020 - 08:24, said:

1. People want lights to scout in games 

2. WG gives them a line that can 

3. People complain about it being “OP” 

4. People want it to be nerfed so it can’t spot anymore
error_404 file LOGIC.exe not found 

attempting to replace LOGIC.exe

task failed 

deleting system 32 

If 1 was actually the case, rather than the hyperbole of the ignorant, the way to fix it was make tracked LTs more viable, rather than release something that has the mobility deemed "OP"  and bad for the game whem considered for tracked LTs during the expansion to tier 10, and also is extremely resistant to mobility kills on top of that insane mobility.   Then again, you're running strawman.bat rather than logic.exe yourself,  so I'm not sure why I'm bothering to respond. 

 

Personally,  I want their gun handling nerfed heavily, their mobility to take a minor hit(only for the T8 prem,T9, and T10)  and their resistance to mobility kills, either hostile or self inflicted, to be nerfed.  If, in exchange, their spotting ability needs buffed to keep the. balanced overall, then I've no issues with that.



Burhead06 #27 Posted Jul 04 2020 - 22:00

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View PostShadowDancer27, on Jul 04 2020 - 14:48, said:

I took the premium out for several games finally and while I was horribad I have first hand experience of what is broken.

 

1) On maps with key crossings and approaches to engagement areas it can at little risk screw up tanks that do anything but turtle from the start.  You wonder why people camp, that is why they camp.

2) I had trouble getting auto locks because I am bad.  It is a simple enough mechanic so not a high ceiling skill.  It's ability to hit long range shots while going 75 kph over uneven terrain is beyond broken...Hit rate at over 350 meters while bouncing around exceeded the full aimed ability of a stationary Even 90.  It should bloom like a casement TD traversing or worse and never settle in like it does.

3) In every game there was an opposing EBR balance so...  The "well the win rate is only about 50%" justification is broke right there.  The two games I didn't play like an idiot were the two my team won.  It was only 7 matches but it is telling that the win/loss result 100% correlated to the EBR vs EBR result.

4) I would need to do some math, but hitting X and turning at speed is by my estimation about a 15g sideforce manuever.  This isn't a sim but that is cartoonishly unrealistic.

5) Plenty ofundeserved "bounces"

as far as point 2 goes , i can say with 100% absolute certainty , your ebr is not magically more accurate while on the move , then a stationary sights dialed in even 90. wanna know how i know this for a fact? because the guns have the same dispersion values , and even if the ebr has low modifiers to their dispersion while on the move, they still have them , so by default a stationary even 90 will be more accurate , even if by a non massive amount simply because ebr's are relatively accurate while on the move, they are not magically more accurate than stationary tanks.



spud_tuber #28 Posted Jul 04 2020 - 22:11

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View PostBurhead06, on Jul 04 2020 - 15:00, said:

as far as point 2 goes , i can say with 100% absolute certainty , your ebr is not magically more accurate while on the move , then a stationary sights dialed in even 90. wanna know how i know this for a fact? because the guns have the same dispersion values , and even if the ebr has low modifiers to their dispersion while on the move, they still have them , so by default a stationary even 90 will be more accurate , even if by a non massive amount simply because ebr's are relatively accurate while on the move, they are not magically more accurate than stationary tanks.

At 350 meters against a moving target,  it might be close thanks to the potato shell velocity on the even 90 and very high shell velocity on the ebr 75.  Still, it sounds more like confirmation bias or hyperbole to me than reality.



TVWizard2 #29 Posted Jul 04 2020 - 22:37

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View Postspud_tuber, on Jul 04 2020 - 22:11, said:

At 350 meters against a moving target,  it might be close thanks to the potato shell velocity on the even 90 and very high shell velocity on the ebr 75.  Still, it sounds more like confirmation bias or hyperbole to me than reality.

I've seen EBR's going +90kph hit a target at 300m dead on with pinpoint accuracy. The tanks are complete BS



Burhead06 #30 Posted Jul 04 2020 - 23:15

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View Postspud_tuber, on Jul 04 2020 - 21:11, said:

At 350 meters against a moving target,  it might be close thanks to the potato shell velocity on the even 90 and very high shell velocity on the ebr 75.  Still, it sounds more like confirmation bias or hyperbole to me than reality.

shell velocity has literally zero impact on your accuracy tho , its just how fast it takes to get to where it was aimed. its flat out factually false to claim that an ebr on the move is more accurate than a even 90 stationary. its just false period. if your going to try to state something make it something that doesn't take 2 seconds on tanks.gg to look up to be false.

View PostTVWizard2, on Jul 04 2020 - 21:37, said:

I've seen EBR's going +90kph hit a target at 300m dead on with pinpoint accuracy. The tanks are complete BS

again , i agree they are very accurate on the move , but literally any tank in the game can be accurate on the move with good enough rng, every shot has a chance to be pinpoint accurated to the pixel your aimed at , just less likely when your reticle is bigger. but guess what, the reason they have high accuracy on the move is because from the ground up they were designed to never be stationary, a stationary ebr is a bad ebr. so instead of giving them no gun , they gave them generally bad guns with exceptionally good dispersion stats on the move. the exception to their guns being overall bad would be the premium which is kinda overtuned with its gun, and the he pen on the ebr's in general,  outside of that their guns are nothing special. low dpm , low pen, not extremely accurate base stats , it just has exceptional dispersion penalties on the move.



spud_tuber #31 Posted Jul 04 2020 - 23:59

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View PostBurhead06, on Jul 04 2020 - 16:15, said:

shell velocity has literally zero impact on your accuracy tho , its just how fast it takes to get to where it was aimed. its flat out factually false to claim that an ebr on the move is more accurate than a even 90 stationary. its just false period. if your going to try to state something make it something that doesn't take 2 seconds on tanks.gg to look up to be false.

*snip*

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to support him.  However, he is talking about effective hit rate, not on paper accuracy.   As such, against moving targets, shell velocity does come into play.  The faster the shell velocity, the easier it is to lead a target, and the less likely changes in the target's velocity will impact your shot.  The effect is magnified for someone who isn't so good at twitch skills, like me.

 

Which brings me back to why I'm not a fan of cars, and that is because the up the twitch factor needed to compete.  I feel like they're the WoT equivalent of those guys in FPS who would go bunny hopping through the enemy team headshoting everyone, except that the game provides the accuracy for them instead of the player needing to.



Burhead06 #32 Posted Jul 05 2020 - 00:23

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View Postspud_tuber, on Jul 04 2020 - 22:59, said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to support him.  However, he is talking about effective hit rate, not on paper accuracy.   As such, against moving targets, shell velocity does come into play.  The faster the shell velocity, the easier it is to lead a target, and the less likely changes in the target's velocity will impact your shot.  The effect is magnified for someone who isn't so good at twitch skills, like me.

 

Which brings me back to why I'm not a fan of cars, and that is because the up the twitch factor needed to compete.  I feel like they're the WoT equivalent of those guys in FPS who would go bunny hopping through the enemy team headshoting everyone, except that the game provides the accuracy for them instead of the player needing to.

i mean i agree shell velocity does help alot especially vs a moving target , but then thats just a complete crapequivalency  ebr on the move is also probably closer to the target than a stationary even 90 would be, and even then a even 90 isn't meant to be a long range sniper in the first place.

as far as not liking them , thats completely fine , not everybody has to like or enjoy every vehicle in the game. as far as needing twitch muscle skills to hit them? eh... maybe up close if they sneak up on you. but it doesn't require even a small amount of twitch snapshot aim skills to hit an ebr. its more about tracing their movement , leading to match their velocity and then hoping they dont change course as soon as you fire. is it difficult , especially with guns with low shell velocity? sure. but its meant to be difficult , thats their defense mechanism. normal lights defense mechanism is having camo to not be spotted as easilly, but ebr's have a much lower native view range so they need to be that much closer to spot the same target a normal light would , which negates part of if not a majority of that camo deterrence (also one reason why i support lowering their camo value to an extent) mix that with their extremely low armor and hp values and it makes them a target that is exceedingly easy to kill if not for their mobility.

so do i think their accuracy on the move could take a hit? sure , as it seems to be in their balance plans. do i think their he pen should be nerfed so regular lights outside of the more armored ones like the ru-lights have a better chance against them? sure. could their camo take a lil hit? sure. but are they this game breaking romulan stealth fighter with a impenetrable force field and the strongest cannon in the game? hell no.



GeneralButtBuster #33 Posted Jul 05 2020 - 04:38

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View Postjackbatt04, on Jul 04 2020 - 20:41, said:


that’s because it’s funny as crapand it makes my day

So you laugh at your own copy-paste joke that you have made multiple times on a World of Tanks forum... ok then, I won't judge.



gamagrass #34 Posted Jul 05 2020 - 04:40

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WG has their head so far each other [edited]on the issue that they don't realized it.

Louiesssss #35 Posted Jul 05 2020 - 08:55

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Honestly, the biggest problem is we are all invested to a point you don't want to lose it... its an addiction, so we take the pain even tho we know its wrong!

jeb2 #36 Posted Jul 05 2020 - 14:01

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If we postulate:

 

1) EBRs have no attributes so unfair that they should be nerfed,

2) A percentage of players play the game to enjoy/have fun,

3) Some percentage of the "fun" players believe the EBRs make those games no longer fun

4) Many players who play for fun will stop playing when they no longer have enough fun.

5) Many long-time players who play WOT and have stayed with it because it was NOT a FPS believe EBRs are excessively FPS and will stop playing

6) Players no longer playing add no $

7) As player population drops, the game becomes less viable

 

Then it comes down to a business decision that is theirs to make.

 

I, for one, have been patient and my temporary approach has been to stop paying in $ and play lower tiers (mainly 6 and 7) where I do not often face them.  Eventually, I will shift to another game or two.  It's not like WOT lacks competitors for player time, count, and $. 


Edited by jeb2, Jul 05 2020 - 14:02.


GeneralButtBuster #37 Posted Jul 05 2020 - 14:23

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View PostLouiesssss, on Jul 05 2020 - 08:55, said:

Honestly, the biggest problem is we are all invested to a point you don't want to lose it... its an addiction, so we take the pain even tho we know its wrong!

True, very true! The interesting thing about forum arguments is that by nature they remain inconclusive. This is due to two things. One, the lack of depth that a virtual environment allows for. At most, arguments maybe a few hundred words, which of read aloud would take probably less than a minute. This, in combination with the lack of immediate response time makes forum arguments very shallow, and people's viewpoints are often less unmoved. The second reason is that on the forums, you can just leave an argument without admitting you are incorrect, even if you know you are. In real life you can't exactly do that, usually instead a compromise is reached, or in extreme cases one viewpoint wins entirely over the other. 

 

But yeah, online forums are better a place for expressing opinions than arguing them.



Burhead06 #38 Posted Jul 05 2020 - 16:50

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was having a discussion with my brother about ebr's as far as their interactions with he rounds hitting the wheels, came to the conclusion that because of the current formula about he shells (non full pen = instant half damage + reduction from remaining armor, and spaced armor = quarter damage + additional reductions from remaining armor) so the reason he shells do not much to ebr's is if the shell hits a wheel its instantly doing a quarter of its alpha. which makes sense when you understand the current formula the game uses for he damage. the easy solution to that that he came up with was if an he shell hits an ebr (or really near them) within the shells blast radius it can damage all wheels on the side of impact. meaning if you landed a proper solid hit on the side of an ebr , you probably didn't do much damage cause of the existing damage forumla , but you would in turn damage/break most/all of the wheels on that side effectively crippling that ebr unless they use a kit pretty quickly in response. would be a interesting take on them taking he fire.

Suicidal_Enemy #39 Posted Jul 05 2020 - 22:43

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View Postjackbatt04, on Jul 04 2020 - 15:41, said:


that’s because it’s funny as crapand it makes my day


Simple minds.



Burhead06 #40 Posted Jul 06 2020 - 00:35

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also people act like because ebr's go fast that they require twitch skills like a fps , they dont. most of the time you see and engage a ebr they are so far away if you dont try going to 100x zoom with a mod , you could be having a siezure and still track them on the move





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