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Guarding the Arty

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chac65 #1 Posted Jul 23 2020 - 06:04

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Again, a thread for beginners. I was in a battle the other day and a medium tank spent the entire battle sitting on the back line behind and near an SPG. I asked the player in battle why was he doing this? We needed him to get into the action. His reply was that he was "protecting the arty." Note: if you are sitting in the back of the map behind the arty your are not protecting the arty. In fact the arty is protecting you. This is because the moment you can spot a tank, that tank can now spot the arty. That tank is going to ignore you and kill the arty, thus the arty protected you. Not to mention that their arty will now kill the now spotted arty. If you want to "protect" the arty, you need to be a few hundred yards out in front of the arty so you can engage your targets without them being able to spot the arty.

X_Lycanroc #2 Posted Jul 23 2020 - 06:13

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That's true. It's silly to believe you can get the most out of you're vechicle's ability by sitting in the back of the map. He should definitely be supporting a flank or finding a position to cover fire from. From what you stated it really doesn't look like this player in particular was looking for a position to provide cover without getting shot, and rather finding an excuse to sit in the back of the map. These things tend to happen when players are unaware of how spotting mechanics work, and come to the conclusion of sitting of the back of the map will not get me killed in the first minute of the game. Or they aren't just having the greatest of days. It's difficult to really punish this kind of behavior, however it's definitely something to note. This could also be a result of light tanks aiming to knock out artillery early in the game he played before this particular game. Your best move is to try to suggest the player a better position, however if he refuses there isn't much you can do about it, send in a complaint if you feel like it was really unsportsmanlike. 
-Xal

Pipinghot #3 Posted Jul 23 2020 - 07:01

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Too right, "guarding" things is too often a waste of time.  Your goal is to keep your gun in the fight as much as possible.

Edited by Pipinghot, Jul 24 2020 - 19:28.


stalkervision #4 Posted Jul 23 2020 - 07:30

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The guy had a good heart. Too many times a little lite tank just blasts in and takes out arty. He was just doing it wrong it appears. 

bake3020 #5 Posted Jul 23 2020 - 13:44

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View Postchac65, on Jul 23 2020 - 05:04, said:

 This is because the moment you can spot a tank, that tank can now spot the arty.

Not true with a lot of good arty players.  It depends on the following: 1) Does the arty have camo on? 2) Is the arty hiding in bushes instead of being out in the open? 3) How is the crew trained?  Me, I always train for concealment as the very first skill.  Everything else is worthless if your spotted.  4) How far apart is the arty from the protector? 5) How far away is the arty from the enemy, compared to the protector? 

Now, just because someone else is spotted, doesn't mean that you are.  It is smart to assume you are or could be, if an enemy tank is coming your way but it is not an automatic thing by any stretch.  I know, on all my current arty, I have 6 skilled commanders and 3 to 4 skilled crews in them with concelment and BIA to begin with, and I am usually the very last person you will ever see, more so than most tank destroyers.



BUNNYHUGGERI #6 Posted Jul 23 2020 - 15:30

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View Postbake3020, on Jul 23 2020 - 07:44, said:

Not true with a lot of good arty players.  It depends on the following: 1) Does the arty have camo on? 2) Is the arty hiding in bushes instead of being out in the open? 3) How is the crew trained?  Me, I always train for concealment as the very first skill.  Everything else is worthless if your spotted.  4) How far apart is the arty from the protector? 5) How far away is the arty from the enemy, compared to the protector?

Now, just because someone else is spotted, doesn't mean that you are.  It is smart to assume you are or could be, if an enemy tank is coming your way but it is not an automatic thing by any stretch.  I know, on all my current arty, I have 6 skilled commanders and 3 to 4 skilled crews in them with concelment and BIA to begin with, and I am usually the very last person you will ever see, more so than most tank destroyers.

Just a thought on the first skill being camo.  LOOK at the camo values of arty...they can be seen by Mr Magoo without his glasses from the instant the spotting circle touches them.  I have a different approach.


 

The only thing that matters in arty is "round out" and "on target".  Thus BIA (Brothers in Arms) is the first skill to give to the arty.  Aim better...load faster...move better...see farther...and yes it helps in camo (a Bit).


 

BIA should be the first skill of arty.



LeaveIT2Beaver #7 Posted Jul 23 2020 - 15:40

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I never knew you could hit a red tank by aiming at its outline. I thought you had to SEE it. I used to be 12,000 games 40% win rate or something like that.  I used to guard arty.

 

I never knew better. 



Roggg2 #8 Posted Jul 23 2020 - 16:06

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The way to guard arty is to create a front-line engagement that is out of max view range from arty, and make sure there are no vision gaps for lights to sneak through.  At that point it's up to the arty player to manage positioning to stay protected.  EBRs complicate things as they can often just drive to the red line, spotted or not.  

 

The player in question is making things worse by leaving his team short-handed, increasing the chances that arty (and the bodyguard) die.   Die last, sure, but die nonetheless.  



Cupujoe #9 Posted Jul 23 2020 - 18:54

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View PostBUNNYHUGGERI, on Jul 23 2020 - 15:30, said:

Just a thought on the first skill being camo.  LOOK at the camo values of arty...they can be seen by Mr Magoo without his glasses from the instant the spotting circle touches them.  I have a different approach.


 

The only thing that matters in arty is "round out" and "on target".  Thus BIA (Brothers in Arms) is the first skill to give to the arty.  Aim better...load faster...move better...see farther...and yes it helps in camo (a Bit).


 

BIA should be the first skill of arty.

I have one high skilled arty crew at tier 10.  BIA and full camo trained. Plus camo on the tank. I've had tanks drive right by the bushes I'm in and not see me. 



BaconMeLoveIt #10 Posted Jul 23 2020 - 21:06

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View PostThe_Lost_Cause, on Jul 23 2020 - 06:40, said:

I never knew you could hit a red tank by aiming at its outline. I thought you had to SEE it. I used to be 12,000 games 40% win rate or something like that.  I used to guard arty.

 

I never knew better. 

 

You can also do a blind shot like this and hit something if RNG allows you to. :justwait::bush::arta:

 

 



BaconMeLoveIt #11 Posted Jul 23 2020 - 21:09

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I just think... you protect an arty from enemy attack by camping away from arty but with a direct line of fire to the directions where enemies might come charging.

 

If a player camps next to an arty, then that player will pretty much be a liability that could get an arty killed.

 

The non-arty gets spotted and enemy fired but misses non-arty; when RNG strikes that shot will hit and destroy the arty positioned behind or next to the non-arty.



chac65 #12 Posted Jul 24 2020 - 02:57

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View Postbake3020, on Jul 23 2020 - 12:44, said:

Not true with a lot of good arty players.  It depends on the following: 1) Does the arty have camo on? 2) Is the arty hiding in bushes instead of being out in the open? 3) How is the crew trained?  Me, I always train for concealment as the very first skill.  Everything else is worthless if your spotted.  4) How far apart is the arty from the protector? 5) How far away is the arty from the enemy, compared to the protector? 

Now, just because someone else is spotted, doesn't mean that you are.  It is smart to assume you are or could be, if an enemy tank is coming your way but it is not an automatic thing by any stretch.  I know, on all my current arty, I have 6 skilled commanders and 3 to 4 skilled crews in them with concelment and BIA to begin with, and I am usually the very last person you will ever see, more so than most tank destroyers.

The moment the arty fires, arty's will shoot, the arty is spotted.



chac65 #13 Posted Jul 24 2020 - 03:01

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View PostCupujoe, on Jul 23 2020 - 17:54, said:

I have one high skilled arty crew at tier 10.  BIA and full camo trained. Plus camo on the tank. I've had tanks drive right by the bushes I'm in and not see me. 

Guess what happens when you shoot, you get spotted.



chac65 #14 Posted Jul 24 2020 - 03:04

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View Poststalkervision, on Jul 23 2020 - 06:30, said:

The guy had a good heart. Too many times a little lite tank just blasts in and takes out arty. He was just doing it wrong it appears. 

That is what this post is for, to help newbies.



Gtraxeman #15 Posted Jul 24 2020 - 17:34

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View PostBaconMeLoveIt, on Jul 23 2020 - 21:06, said:

 

You can also do a blind shot like this and hit something if RNG allows you to. :justwait::bush::arta:

 

 

Was nice, but a target was lit. Best lucky shot I ever had was in an M4. Took a shot at an enemy close to me, missed, the shot flew to the back of the map and killed an unspotted arty.







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