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+2/-2MM

Matchmaker Improvement

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Blackstone #21 Posted Sep 16 2020 - 12:42

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View Postwayne_1313, on Sep 15 2020 - 15:46, said:

Anything at Tier 7 and below is cannon fodder for Tier 8 thru 10

Not true.



ElijahDoLittle #22 Posted Sep 16 2020 - 12:58

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View Postgolruul, on Sep 15 2020 - 20:52, said:

Because of the huge population of tier 8 premiums, tier 6 has been getting screwed by tier 8 since the beginning.  There have been loads of complaints about this over the years (including me about 7 years ago documenting this). 

 

Nothing has ever happened.  Nothing will ever happen.

 

Only way of dealing with this is to get out of tier 6 as soon as possible.

 

This in part is why new players rush to get to tier X, they don't want to continually be at the bottom of +-2 MM.



TheJeep1 #23 Posted Sep 16 2020 - 15:17

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View PostCorporalUpham, on Sep 15 2020 - 18:00, said:

+2/-2 is so WG can rig the global win rate at around 50%, bringing up bad players and knocking down good players.


This.



TheJeep1 #24 Posted Sep 16 2020 - 15:22

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View Post2MOEJOE, on Sep 15 2020 - 15:45, said:

The simple truth is tier VI tanks dont stack up against  tier VIII tanks just like tier VIII tanks dont stack up against  tier X tanks I dont care what these guys say.3 4 years ago when the mm was better sure the battles were more balanced hell I had 2800 battle in my Cromwell and 2000 in my B it was so fun not anymore.Its funny reading barely green players say what's your problem and purple guys saying oh man just pick your battles suuuuuure buddy.I dont know what to tell you maybe get a tier X and derp around like 3/4 of the player base does anyway there is no fix WGs has ruined the game.


You are doing something wrong then.  I have no problems vrs tier 8's with any of my Tier6 German tanks, which is all I play.  If your expecting to drive right up and start dukeing it out no matter what the situation, well then, that's it.

 

Of course they "stack up", but dont act as if you're the only tier 6 out there, in fact there are more tier 6's in that battle then anything else....


Edited by TheJeep1, Sep 16 2020 - 15:23.


ReeseThePickle #25 Posted Sep 16 2020 - 16:11

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 .

Edited by ReeseThePickle, Sep 16 2020 - 16:13.


ReeseThePickle #26 Posted Sep 16 2020 - 16:17

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View PostTheJeep1, on Sep 16 2020 - 15:22, said:


You are doing something wrong then.  I have no problems vrs tier 8's with any of my Tier6 German tanks, which is all I play.  If your expecting to drive right up and start dukeing it out no matter what the situation, well then, that's it.

 

Of course they "stack up", but dont act as if you're the only tier 6 out there, in fact there are more tier 6's in that battle then anything else....

The fact that you don't have issues with meeting an IS-3A or a Skorpion G in your VK 30.01 P means that you either don't care about not being able to influence the game or you just aren't doing enough damage in even regular tier 6 battles.

The tier 6's not only don't stack up, having +2/-2 in the game puts a huge reliance on the top tier tanks because there is only 2-4 of them. This is an issue because sometimes the top tier tanks just suicide and auto-lose us the battle.



Suomen_Panssari #27 Posted Sep 16 2020 - 16:18

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View PostM4Shermanmaster, on Sep 15 2020 - 22:22, said:

I hardley ever post on the forum, but here it goes.

 

Something needs to change with the matchmaker +2/-2 doesnt work. The idea of +2/-2 is fine, but teams need to be balanced better. I pick Playing tier 6 against tier 8 as an example as I believe +2 is at its worst in these tier spreads. Tier six tanks are overwhelmed by tier 8ts which are better in almost every way. I played tier 6 today in my sherman jumbo. Not necessarly a meta tank, but one of my favourites in the game. as i played, I was matched against tier 8ts frequently, but I thought I would just avoid those top tiers and pick on the other teams tier 6/7 tanks. In other forum responses I see the common answer that tier 6 tanks shouldnt fight directly against tier 8ts, but should support the team and take out the lower tanks. This however never works out. In my experience of +2/-2MM, the team starts the game and heads to the zone that is common to its tank type, IE heavy tanks go to a choke point and Tds find a bush. The game is them played forward from then with both teams trading shots and maneuvering to get better places. Often however, the three tier 8ts at the top of your team are different from those of the other team. many games one team will have one more TD, HT or MT, which is the cause of the problem. In one of my games our top 3 were a Lowe, T32 and m35 arty. The other team had a Is3, Lorr 40T and a bat chat arty. This is where the problem starts. The t32 and the lowe go to the heavy flank, where there is now more t8 heavies there on one team then the other. The is3 is the only t8 heavy from his team, and now must rely on tier 7 and 6 heavies to help him. The game goes down hill from there. The is3 and the tier seven heavy t29 are forced to take the brunt of the opposition as they are the only one who can trade shots with the other tanks tier 8ts, as the tier 6 heavys on their team lack the pen and armour to assist. Tier seven heavys on the other team assist their two tier 8ts, and they quickly focus take out the is3. With the is3 gone, the two tier 8ts and their support erase the t29 and the supporting tier 6s and 7s are obliterated as they cannot compete with their tier 8 counterparts. This is the problem with +2./-2 The Match maker is random and once in a while the tanks arnt equally split between teams. Unless your in a very strong position, the moment your top tiers are gone, you are screwed. in +1/-1 MM, a tier 7 tank may be weaker compared to the tier 8, but it stands a better chance in fending off the tier 8 as its stats are closer. 

 

In short, it is very hard for bottom tier tanks to make up for the loss of a top tier one, and if the classes are missmached between teams (Ex, teams have the same amount of heavies but one has 3 tier 8ts and one has 2) It is very easy for one team to dominate a flank and push for the win.

 

I think this needs to happen.

The Matchmaker needs to be set +1/-1 except for times where server population is low and people are waiting for a while.This would solve the problem because the bottom tier tanks would be able to have a bigger influence on the outcome because they would be able to contest the top tiers and if the situation calls for it, make up for the loss of a high tier vehicle. while this would be nice, I doubt it will happen.

 

The second possibility. All vehicles need to be sorted by how they are played and the class. The match maker should never put a 279E against the Amx 50B. The two tanks are very different and in terms of balance, the one tank is at a major disadvantage. I think tanks should be matched by class, but add sub classes to help. although the tech tree shows the AMX and Obj as both Heavies, the match maker should see them differently, and match them up with tanks that play simmilarly. As an example tanks like the mause and type 5 would be put in the MM as sub class "SuperHeavies" and should be matched against simmilar tanks such as the E100. The same would apply to matching vulnerable sniper tds with other snipers and Assualt Tds with other heavier turetless tds. we could even make a subclass for heavy medium tanks or light heavies, heck we should probably seperate the cars and the lights in the matchmaker also. 

 

While i think option 1 is the easiest, i think option two would be better for the community, and would make the game a lot more enjoyable knowing that the tanks your playing against are suited simmilarly to yours.

 

Anyways this is just an idea, which as of now is being shared. Id totally understand if others oppose this as everyone has their opinions, but if you have any ideas you might as well share them below.

 

Thanks guys/girls, hopefully my writing didnt bore you.

 

 

 

 


This is  why i play M4A2E4 it see's tier 6 max and  has armor close to the jumbo but you have the  m3 lee's 75 mm. But serious back in my day tier 5 KV use see tier 10 and it  didn't give a [redacted]. Cause back then kv was kv-1 and kv-2 and 152 he did not care what tier you  are. Also arty use to  1 shot hit you back then too.

 

Closed Beta was like this.


Edited by Suomen_Panssari, Sep 16 2020 - 16:22.


coconut2011 #28 Posted Sep 16 2020 - 19:30

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+/-2 MM is fine.

 

Personally, I find the +/- 2 MM brings a lot of variety.  There are only so few maps.  It is really the MM + tank variety that makes the game not so boring.  Sure being bottom tier can be harder, but it can be more rewarding as well due to extra credit / exp bonuses.  If you play scout tanks, the increased HP pool is very beneficial.  If you have a sh*tty team, even same tier is going to be a snowball game.

 

Tier 6 heavy in a tier 8 game, Ace.  Top in exp, 2nd in damage with 5 kills.  Check what our tier 8 heavies did.

http://wotreplays.eu...e/5534503#teams

 

Tier 7 heavy in a tier 9 game.  Ace.  Top in exp, damage and with 5 kills.

http://wotreplays.eu...e/5496596#teams

 

Tier 8 medium in a tier 7-9 game.  Ace.  Top in exp (1632 base), damage (3706), assist (3190), kills (3)

http://wotreplays.eu...e/5520607#teams

 



ez_money #29 Posted Sep 16 2020 - 20:12

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View PostReeseThePickle, on Sep 16 2020 - 09:17, said:

The tier 6's not only don't stack up, having +2/-2 in the game puts a huge reliance on the top tier tanks because there is only 2-4 of them. This is an issue because sometimes the top tier tanks just suicide and auto-lose us the battle.

I would tend to agree with this part. When the battle is a 3-5-7 or similar, and your top tier drivers are bad...well you know how that usually turns out.



awildseaking #30 Posted Sep 17 2020 - 02:42

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View PostTheJeep1, on Sep 16 2020 - 09:17, said:


This.

 

The global win rate (in terms of what you're trying to say) isn't even close to 50% though. That's just the statistical average, which it has to be since there are only 3 conditions (win, loss and draw).The median win rate is about 47.5%, which means that 50% of players are above that and 50% are below it.


Edited by awildseaking, Sep 17 2020 - 02:42.





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