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CVS, does it help you see through opaque bushes?


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I_QQ_4_U #1 Posted Oct 17 2020 - 23:05

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This is the first game where I really noticed CVS doing it's thing but I also noticed I not only spotted tanks in bushes I seemed to  spot them through opaque bushes? Does it lower the value of bushes to make them easier to see through as well? 13:50 on the Standard B and 4:40 on on the two SPGs.

 

http://wotreplays.eu..._hpanzer_ru_251



Korvick #2 Posted Oct 17 2020 - 23:07

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on Oct 17 2020 - 22:05, said:

This is the first game where I really noticed CVS doing it's thing but I also noticed I not only spotted tanks in bushes I seemed to  spot them through opaque bushes? Does it lower the value of bushes to make them easier to see through as well? 13:50 on the Standard B and 4:40 on on the two SPGs.

 

http://wotreplays.eu..._hpanzer_ru_251

 

Well, when you read the tooltip, I thought that is precisely what it says it does.



I_QQ_4_U #3 Posted Oct 17 2020 - 23:21

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View PostKorvick, on Oct 17 2020 - 23:07, said:

 

Well, when you read the tooltip, I thought that is precisely what it says it does.

 

 

No, it doesn't say that at all.



Korvick #4 Posted Oct 17 2020 - 23:23

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on Oct 17 2020 - 22:21, said:

 

 

No, it doesn't say that at all.

 

Really?  At work atm so I can't see.  If you mouse over CVS, what does it actually say it does?



PTwr #5 Posted Oct 17 2020 - 23:27

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Yup, thats exactly what it does.

Its a bush probe.

 

You can park LT fully in bush which normally would easily be invisible until proxyspot, even against max vision Patton. But now it can spot you from ~200 meters with magic of CVS. (you'd need either to do math on hidden values, or testing on malinovka, to know exact ranges)

 

 

Foliage = bushes, trees, and some cluster of big grass I would not call a bush.

Opaque or not makes no difference for spotting (aside of distances involved, that is), only thing opaque does is hiding gun flash (from being spotted through said bush, not from any direction like some pubblets screaming on forums sometimes seems to think).


Edited by PTwr, Oct 17 2020 - 23:29.


I_QQ_4_U #6 Posted Oct 17 2020 - 23:27

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View PostKorvick, on Oct 17 2020 - 23:23, said:

 

Really?  At work atm so I can't see.  If you mouse over CVS, what does it actually say it does?

 

It says it reduces the concealment of enemy vehicles behind foliage, nothing about it reducing the effect on your vision of bushes you're looking through. Maybe I've just never noticed it before since I was specifically testing CVS on the 251 for the first time and was paying more attention but it really surprised me when I spotted the Standard B as I was driving up to the bush while it was still opaque.


Edited by I_QQ_4_U, Oct 17 2020 - 23:32.


I_QQ_4_U #7 Posted Oct 17 2020 - 23:30

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View PostPTwr, on Oct 17 2020 - 23:27, said:

Yup, thats exactly what it does.

Its a bush probe.

 

You can park LT fully in bush which normally would easily be invisible until proxyspot, even against max vision Patton. But now it can spot you from 100+ meters with magic of CVS.

 

 

Foliage = bushes, trees, and some cluster of big grass I would not call a bush.

Opaque or not makes no difference for spotting (aside of distances involved, that is), only thing opaque does is hiding gun flash (from being spotted through said bush, not from any direction like some pubblets screaming on forums sometimes seems to think).

 

 

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.  If it is the case then it really is an OP mechanic since it not only allows you to spot enemy tanks when they are in bushes but you can fire at them with a very low chance of being spotted without ever having to move(unless they too have CVS).


Edited by I_QQ_4_U, Oct 17 2020 - 23:31.


Kramah313 #8 Posted Oct 17 2020 - 23:41

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on Oct 17 2020 - 16:30, said:

 

 

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.  If it is the case then it really is an OP mechanic since it not only allows you to spot enemy tanks when they are in bushes but you can fire at them with a very low chance of being spotted without ever having to move(unless they too have CVS).


If I understand you correctly, you might be right. I thought it was supposed to help you spot vehicles that are behind bushes. But how does it define “behind”? If you’re 20m behind a bush and it’s opaque, and an enemy is 400m away but that bush is between you, that enemy may be considered “behind” that bush and CVS may apply. I didn’t think about that until now. I still don’t think it would be as effective as actually sitting in the bush, but I would expect it might help some. I haven’t seen any thing that says CVS only works on bushes within a certain range of a target. 



Korvick #9 Posted Oct 17 2020 - 23:42

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on Oct 17 2020 - 22:30, said:

 

 

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.  If it is the case then it really is an OP mechanic since it not only allows you to spot enemy tanks when they are in bushes but you can fire at them with a very low chance of being spotted without ever having to move(unless they too have CVS).

 

That was the complaint and issue when it was first used on PTS.  However, in the months since its come up, it hasn't lived up to the hype.  Its good, and I'm using it on some of my lights, but its not a game breaker.  Otherwise we'd be seeing a lot more posts about it.



ExploratorOne #10 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 00:19

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View PostKramah313, on Oct 17 2020 - 17:41, said:


If I understand you correctly, you might be right. I thought it was supposed to help you spot vehicles that are behind bushes. But how does it define “behind”? If you’re 20m behind a bush and it’s opaque, and an enemy is 400m away but that bush is between you, that enemy may be considered “behind” that bush and CVS may apply. I didn’t think about that until now. I still don’t think it would be as effective as actually sitting in the bush, but I would expect it might help some. I haven’t seen any thing that says CVS only works on bushes within a certain range of a target. 

It reduces the total concealment value of the tank behind foliage.  You can use the Camo Calculator to get a more precise idea of the effect/results (basically you get spotted behind bushes that used to hide you):

 

http://www.wotinfo.n...camo-calculator



I_QQ_4_U #11 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 00:56

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View PostKorvick, on Oct 17 2020 - 23:42, said:

 

That was the complaint and issue when it was first used on PTS.  However, in the months since its come up, it hasn't lived up to the hype.  Its good, and I'm using it on some of my lights, but its not a game breaker.  Otherwise we'd be seeing a lot more posts about it.

 

I have/had it on the LHMTV, EVEN 90 and T92 and really didn't notice any discernible difference using it or not, really didn't seem to be worth using TBH. This was the first game I tried it on the Ru251(perfect map to test it on) and it's the first time I'm pretty sure it lived up to the hype but it's one thing to spot tanks in bushes it's another if you can do it 15m back from a bush at the same time. No idea why it seemed to work so well this time though, I've played games on Prok n the EVEN 90 and LHMTV spotting from the same bushes on the hill and never spotted anything on the other side until they fired and the LHMTV has way more VR than the 251, the T92 almost the same. I'll have to play more games with it on the 251 and see if this was just a lot of good luck.

 I also have the Improved Radio and FOT directive on it which actually do seem to make more of a difference if you can get your team to shoot stuff.



bake3020 #12 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 01:08

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In other words, it essentially does the same thing as the tuning down of your graphics setting like the issue they had in WT several years ago.  You buy it, install it and viola, it allows you to see through the grass, trees, bushes, etc.

rustyJunk #13 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 01:20

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I fought tier 8 tanks with CVS while playing my tier 6s.  At first I could not figure out why I kept getting spotted in situations where I believed to be fully covered, and only in tier 8 matches.  It took me 2 months to realize what was going on... Tier 8 Lights and Mediums with CVS.

 

The lesson I learned is... I will get no more tier 6+ tanks unless I have a crew ready with sixth sense, full vision, full camo, and I have the cash to equip a silencer.  Yes, I know there are many hurr-durr "I am pro" types that feel they don't need it, but I personally need everything I can to defend from those CVS equipped tanks.



Green_Machine_ #14 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 01:25

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or you can read the sticky on eq - OP has a break down of every item 

Korvick #15 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 01:37

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View PostrustyJunk, on Oct 18 2020 - 00:20, said:

I fought tier 8 tanks with CVS while playing my tier 6s.  At first I could not figure out why I kept getting spotted in situations where I believed to be fully covered, and only in tier 8 matches.  It took me 2 months to realize what was going on... Tier 8 Lights and Mediums with CVS.

 

The lesson I learned is... I will get no more tier 6+ tanks unless I have a crew ready with sixth sense, full vision, full camo, and I have the cash to equip a silencer.  Yes, I know there are many hurr-durr "I am pro" types that feel they don't need it, but I personally need everything I can to defend from those CVS equipped tanks.

 

I've been playing almost exclusively with T6 to T8 in last few months because of last season's Battlepass and this current one.  Have no issues with not having Sixth sense.  For one, only my Meds and Lights bother with them.  I know I should prob have my TDs with it too but I don't actually play that much TD tanks so I don't have many with multi skills.  I see no point in putting 6th Sense on a heavy.  A heavy tank should always be in the thick of things anyways.

 

If you feel such a need for all those things you mentioned, maybe you might try playing differently.  Camping and sniping from the backlines only works sometimes.  It certainly doesn't allow you to carry games, which is required if you want to do better.  The CVS issue is still debatable.  Some people thing they are great, others think they are useless.



_Brew_ #16 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 01:58

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This explains it all
 



rustyJunk #17 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 02:03

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View PostKorvick, on Oct 17 2020 - 18:37, said:

 

I've been playing almost exclusively with T6 to T8 in last few months because of last season's Battlepass and this current one.  Have no issues with not having Sixth sense.  For one, only my Meds and Lights bother with them.  I know I should prob have my TDs with it too but I don't actually play that much TD tanks so I don't have many with multi skills.  I see no point in putting 6th Sense on a heavy.  A heavy tank should always be in the thick of things anyways.

 

If you feel such a need for all those things you mentioned, maybe you might try playing differently.  Camping and sniping from the backlines only works sometimes.  It certainly doesn't allow you to carry games, which is required if you want to do better.  The CVS issue is still debatable.  Some people thing they are great, others think they are useless.

 

You don't need to be in the backlines to make good use of cammo.  I love to play dynamic assault TDs like T78 where I go behind bushes in the frontlines and fire unseen.  You need full countermeasures to CVS if you are to use those tactics in tier 8 matches.



Korvick #18 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 02:40

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View PostrustyJunk, on Oct 18 2020 - 01:03, said:

 

You don't need to be in the backlines to make good use of cammo.  I love to play dynamic assault TDs like T78 where I go behind bushes in the frontlines and fire unseen.  You need full countermeasures to CVS if you are to use those tactics in tier 8 matches.

 

Maybe for the TDs you play at tier 8 you do.  But I don't have full countermeasures on the high tier TDs I got on my Asia account and I don't have any issues.  Hell, I don't even have 6th sense on most of my TDs since I got them before 6th sense existed.  And I never bothered reskilling (ok, I was/am too lazy and cheap to reskill).  But I have a very mobile playstyle.  I hardly spend more than 30 seconds in any location.



rustyJunk #19 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 03:01

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View PostKorvick, on Oct 17 2020 - 19:40, said:

 

Maybe for the TDs you play at tier 8 you do.  But I don't have full countermeasures on the high tier TDs I got on my Asia account and I don't have any issues.  Hell, I don't even have 6th sense on most of my TDs since I got them before 6th sense existed.  And I never bothered reskilling (ok, I was/am too lazy and cheap to reskill).  But I have a very mobile playstyle.  I hardly spend more than 30 seconds in any location.

 

Mine are tier 6.  The highest I got so far.

 

Right now when I see a tier 8 light or medium I run away or head for hard cover, because they see me every time and then 1-2 shot me.


Edited by rustyJunk, Oct 18 2020 - 03:05.


I_QQ_4_U #20 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 05:01

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View Post_Brew_, on Oct 18 2020 - 01:58, said:

This explains it all
 

 

 

No, it doesn't.






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