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Arty haterz - explain something to me...


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Tao_Te_Hobbit #1 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 16:54

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Why is getting derped by arty bad, such that you need to foam at the mouth and rage like frustrated two year olds ...

 

But getting derped by double-bushed TDs is apparently acceptable?

 

I don't recall seeing threads calling for limits to two TDs in game....

 

So.

 

'Splain that to me, folks.

 

:popcorn:



ThePigSheFlies #2 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 16:59

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I don't know anyone that is a fan of getting crapped on by double bushed TDs.  In fact many many people scream about how horrible the maps are that aren't brawling city maps because of them.

 

  1. The one chief difference is you can line up a shot on a TD that hit you and semi-reliably shoot it back. 
  2. You can also choose to avoid that area which is often why the garbage half and half maps like paris feature the main fight in the southern city section.

 

If you want to reliably avoid getting hit by an enemy that you cannot shoot back due to terrain (arty) then your choice is to stay in the garage - or in fact play arty because then you won't be spotted for most of the match on most of the maps...



NateRocko #3 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 17:01

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I know why. It's because they can hit you, but you can't hit them back. You can find positions where you can't get hit from them, but you can't hide from arta, at least most of the time. You can't combat arta, but arta can combat you.

Look up ATGMs in Blitz, it's the exact same issue.

Cowcat137 #4 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 17:06

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Nobody complains when I drop  650 HP bomb on a hull down chieftain.

heavymetal1967 #5 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 17:14

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There's been TD threads and while not a lot enough (imo) to say that it isn't "acceptable" to some. 

 

But the volume of arty threads and more recently wheelie threads drown 'em out.

 

And everyone has a right to complain, but the folks with enough "time" to know better that come on here and opine that arty (and now wheelies) need to be removed and why (even when they have valid points) that don't realize they're beating their head against the proverbial wall are the ones that I don't understand.

 

Wow that sentence needs a warning or a song.

 

Spoiler

 



Projectile_Misfired #6 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 17:14

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View PostTao_Te_Hobbit, on Oct 18 2020 - 15:54, said:

Why is getting derped by arty bad, such that you need to foam at the mouth and rage like frustrated two year olds ...

But getting derped by double-bushed TDs is apparently acceptable?

I don't recall seeing threads calling for limits to two TDs in game....

So.

'Splain that to me, folks.

There are some threads about limiting the number of TDs allowed in a match. However, from what I've seen on the forums, you'd have to go back a few years to find them.

I think they trailed off about the time WG introduced Wheelies. So, now players complain about SPGs, Wheelies, and usually, the most recently released "OP" Premium Tank.



gamagrass #7 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 17:30

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arty that has laser-guided round while you are on the move?  They can hit you but you can't shoot back?  Even though it is a one-sided match unless you can make it to their side of the map.

Slatherer #8 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 17:31

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View PostCowcat137, on Oct 18 2020 - 08:06, said:

Nobody complains when I drop  650 HP bomb on a hull down chieftain.

 

How about arty can only damage Chieftains...  And that double tracked Obj 279e.

 

Arty would bounce any other tank.

 

That would be nice.

 

Any tanks I missed?



GeorgePreddy #9 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 17:33

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View Postheavymetal1967, on Oct 18 2020 - 13:14, said:

And everyone has a right to complain...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Gtraxeman #10 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 17:40

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You missed the "Invisi TD" threads by several years. There was a TD cammo nerf that affected all tech tree TDs. Premium TDs up until that point were immune. The E25 became even more hated for a while, due to that nerf.

Whistling_Death_ #11 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 17:43

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O.P. - Because artillery-whiners are hypocrites.

 

Every battle, without fail, my artillery is outnumbered by 12-14 tanks! It's not faiiirrrrrr! Tanks are broken and need to be removed from the game! There should be a limit of one tank per battle! I'm telling mommy Wargaming! It's not faiiiirrrrrrr mommmyyy!!!”



dunniteowl #12 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 17:44

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View Postheavymetal1967, on Oct 18 2020 - 10:14, said:

There's been TD threads and while not a lot enough (imo) to say that it isn't "acceptable" to some. 

 

But the volume of arty threads and more recently wheelie threads drown 'em out.

 

And everyone has a right to complain, but the folks with enough "time" to know better that come on here and opine that arty (and now wheelies) need to be removed and why (even when they have valid points) that don't realize they're beating their head against the proverbial wall are the ones that I don't understand.

 

Wow that sentence needs a warning or a song.

 

Spoiler

 

 

I fear I may be 'rubbing off' a bit at times for some of my longer-term forum friends when I see things like the above highlighted bit.

 

Am I happy about that?

 

Who, who, whoo, me?  You hoo bet!  (Heard an owl right outside my window this morning.  Young thing, maybe only a year or two old judging by the pitch).

 


GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO



_Red_Saaryn_ #13 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 17:47

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View PostTao_Te_Hobbit, on Oct 18 2020 - 16:54, said:

Why is getting derped by arty bad, such that you need to foam at the mouth and rage like frustrated two year olds ...

 

But getting derped by double-bushed TDs is apparently acceptable?

 

I don't recall seeing threads calling for limits to two TDs in game....

 

So.

 

'Splain that to me, folks.

 

:popcorn:

Cause you can go behind hard cover and the tds can't hit you anymore. Meanwhile arty can hit you even behind cover and the only real defense is get under a bridge or hug a mountain so this takes the hit (and even this can fail ). Arty is hated because it is the literal easy mode and even with that arty players can't do anything right, even worse, good arty players are often in the enemy team. Aiming the top tiers or dangerous tanks in the allies...all while the ally arty is focusing a low hp med at the same time a t95 is pushing forward but is behind perma tracked by allies. The best way to define a good arty player is by looking for those who do counter battery. Arty that kills enemy arty is the best arty unlike the useless arty that stays stills and let the enemy arty do counter battery



lordsheen #14 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 17:51

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I've never played arty. I consider it to be cheating because you can shoot over mountains and hit enemies from 800 meters away. You can hit any enemy you want without being in their line of sight and the only risk is counter-battery.

skitterpop #15 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 18:02

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View Postlordsheen, on Oct 18 2020 - 12:51, said:

I've never played arty. I consider it to be cheating because you can shoot over mountains and hit enemies from 800 meters away. You can hit any enemy you want without being in their line of sight and the only risk is counter-battery.


You missed suicide scouts as a threat.



8_Hussars #16 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 18:05

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1)  IMHO the reason arty was introduced to the game is long past.  When +5 MM and massive foliage cover were plenty, games were more static, lower tiers needed the help, and arty was used to "promote dynamic game play" as the meme goes.  The current version of WoT with Agent Orange maps and +2 MM, no longer needs arty to "promote dynamic game play" and in today's meta in fact it often does the exact opposite. 

2) As has been stated the fundamental difference between arty and high alpha TDs is that arty is uncounterable for the most part.  If a player drives in front of double bushed TDs, they made a fixable mistake.  If a player gets splashed  tucking up under hard cover or juking at 60kph its oh well. 

If anyone has an opportunity to play mid tiers on EU server you will likely see much less arty in matches at least anecdotally.

Here on NA its still extremely over-represented (with the the M44 being the most played tank on the NA server).
Posted Image

Edited by 8_Hussars, Oct 18 2020 - 18:08.


ProfessionalFinn #17 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 18:20

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View Post8_Hussars, on Oct 18 2020 - 09:05, said:

1)  IMHO the reason arty was introduced to the game is long past.  When +5 MM and massive foliage cover were plenty, games were more static, lower tiers needed the help, and arty was used to "promote dynamic game play" as the meme goes.  The current version of WoT with Agent Orange maps and +2 MM, no longer needs arty to "promote dynamic game play" and in today's meta in fact it often does the exact opposite. 

2) As has been stated the fundamental difference between arty and high alpha TDs is that arty is uncounterable for the most part.  If a player drives in front of double bushed TDs, they made a fixable mistake.  If a player gets splashed  tucking up under hard cover or juking at 60kph its oh well. 

If anyone has an opportunity to play mid tiers on EU server you will likely see much less arty in matches at least anecdotally.

Here on NA its still extremely over-represented (with the the M44 being the most played tank on the NA server).
Posted Image

Oh man, these are the stats I have coveted.  Thank you.  Love to know more about the what, where and when behind these stats.  More information is better.



2Fantastic #18 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 19:02

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The shortest definition I can give is that arty in many situations prevents engagement control. Meaning that the number of positions you can take to get shots on your opponents to better trade damage are severely reduced. For instance If I wanted to shoot the back of a maus with a batchat and I drove into an open field that could have lower elevation or some kind of protective barrier so the rest of the enemy team couldn't shoot me arty completely changes that dynamic. Arty will be able to shoot you, and when they hit you, if driving batchat, they will punish you for much more than you could gain. 

 

To make this even shorter, 3 arty severely limits the amount of positions you can take, which severely limits the skill required to play the game. 

 

With that said, there are reward tanks that require arty to deal with them. Especially chieftain or 279 and people also hate these tanks for the exact reason they hate arty. Those tanks can hurt you, and you cant hurt them. Except arty can hurt you anywhere on map. And if you are driving a tank with low armor they will hit harder than a [edited]crapbarn, anywhere on map. And then there is stun...... IF shot your reload is then reduced by 50%, your shots are twice as inaccurate, meaning a probably overall damage reduction of 75%, you accelerate slower, turn slower, and lose significant view range. For the next  approx 10 seconds. W T F. I could understand why you would incorporate a mechanic like this for a tank with a short range weapon that wants to brawl, but would be op AF. but a tank that can shoot across map......

 

I for one would be fine is arty was limited to radio range, just like every other [edited]tank, and just had more loft on their shots. That way if you dove a side you could punish them. But as it stands, the further away they are, the more loft their shots get, so it is better to be across map, firing on your target than be closer.... This is completely f'ed up on so many levels, while physics wise the loft makes sense, the slightest wind would make this wildly inaccurate. BUT the reticle maintains its [edited]size everywhere on map changing from a more oval shape to circle. so... IT GETS MORE ACCURATE the further away you are.

 

This is the current situation of tier 10 and why it sucks because of arty plus reward tanks


Edited by 2Fantastic, Oct 18 2020 - 19:26.


RagnarokBazil #19 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 19:13

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View Postgamagrass, on Oct 18 2020 - 11:30, said:

arty that has laser-guided round while you are on the move?  They can hit you but you can't shoot back?  Even though it is a one-sided match unless you can make it to their side of the map.



arty that has laser-guided round while you are on the move...

Thats called aiming 50 meters in-front of you and predicting where you are going.. that's called Skill..



Apache1990 #20 Posted Oct 18 2020 - 19:35

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View PostRagnarokBazil, on Oct 18 2020 - 14:13, said:

arty that has laser-guided round while you are on the move...

Thats called aiming 50 meters in-front of you and predicting where you are going.. that's called Skill..

 

I'm not so sure.  My best arty leading shots tend to be me just throwing the reticle out somewhere ahead of the tank and firing without aiming in.  Most tanks that move fast enough to take much lead move too unpredictably to lead on purpose, and even slower tanks will randomly stop/start in weird areas at times.






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