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Top Using Stat Insults. Because Stats are Lagging, Uncertain, Baseless, Irrelevant.

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Spammy #41 Posted Oct 19 2020 - 19:11

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View PostSiege_Engine, on Oct 18 2020 - 15:53, said:

I saw a big argument last night between players who were using stats to insult each other's gameplay.  Why?  Stats are an empty insult.  

 

First, I've already analyzed in another thread that win rate is a lagging indicator.  It doesn't become relevant until after about 1,000 battles.  So, it's not going to show what's happening, today, unless it's for known for sure that a player has not gotten better or worse during their last 1,000 battles.  

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/622090-why-the-win-rate-stat-is-bogus-with-my-example/page__fromsearch__1

 

Second, it's not certain that other stats like WN8, Average Damage, and Average Experience relate to Win Rate -- as can be seen in the graphs (attached).  My WN8, Average Damage, and Average Experience have all steadily increased.  Yet my Win Rate has randomly oscillated to finally end up -- a little lower than where it began.  If there's a correlation, or not, who can say that it actually relates to any cause and effect?  

https://wotlabs.net/na/player/siege_engine

 

Third, there is broad disagreement about what constitutes stat-padding and even how to define a "cheat".  Without agreement on these issues, then the stats are baseless.   

 

Fourth, there is a lack of relevance.  There isn't any data on my gameplay that shows when I'm drinking lots of frosty beverages, or not.  So my gameplay can't be predicted based on my stats -- even if you know whether I'm drinking frosty beverages.  

 

So, when people in this game insult other's gameplay based on their stats, they are not only being rude but they are also naive of the insignificance of their insults.  

 

Play the game.  Have fun.  Stop the stat insults.  They don't prove you're a better player or a better person.  

 

 

siege-engine-stats.jpg

 

 

A combination of recent wn8, win rate, average tier etc  are actually a quite good indicator of how effective one is in WoT... stats don't lie.



Tao_Te_Hobbit #42 Posted Oct 19 2020 - 19:14

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View PostSpammy, on Oct 19 2020 - 11:11, said:

A combination of recent wn8, win rate, average tier etc  are actually a quite good indicator of how effective one is in WoT... stats don't lie.

 

Agreed.  But they CAN mislead if improperly offered or applied.  :great:



gpc_4 #43 Posted Oct 19 2020 - 19:29

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This perfectly explains all the 45% win purple WN8 players.....

Spammy #44 Posted Oct 19 2020 - 19:35

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View Postgpc_4, on Oct 19 2020 - 12:29, said:

This perfectly explains all the 45% win purple WN8 players.....

lol



RaynorShyne #45 Posted Oct 19 2020 - 20:32

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View Post_AveSatanas_, on Oct 18 2020 - 23:44, said:

 

Keep making excuses

Stop re-rolling.

 

We can do this all day.  Feeling better?



RaynorShyne #46 Posted Oct 19 2020 - 20:33

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View Post_VIBECHECK_, on Oct 19 2020 - 11:41, said:

If I get the "high score" consistently over thousands of games and you do not, which of us likely has a better grasp of the game mechanics? 

It means you get a high score.   Period.

 

It means nothing else.



Saffron_Blaze #47 Posted Oct 19 2020 - 20:36

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View PostSiege_Engine, on Oct 18 2020 - 23:34, said:

 

How so?  I've shown that if you were looking at my increases in all of those stats, you could not predict if my win rate went up, or down.  

 

There is a very strong correlation between PR and WR.

Your data could be the result of you climbing through the tiers, as the increased firepower will usually impact avg dmg and thus indirectly exp.



_VIBECHECK_ #48 Posted Oct 19 2020 - 20:58

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View PostRaynorShyne, on Oct 19 2020 - 20:33, said:

It means you get a high score.   Period.

 

It means nothing else.

Consistently*. And other players do not. If that isn't an indicator of skill at the game (Or any game), what would be? This applies to chess, this applies to world of tanks, this applies to basketball, this applies to Starcraft.


Edited by _VIBECHECK_, Oct 19 2020 - 21:07.


Rhedae #49 Posted Oct 19 2020 - 23:00

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Or you play half a year trying to make my tiger 1 to work, after I stopped playing due to an injury, I was curious what my win8 was. (Ah jeeze) This explains the lip smacking I hear everything I hit the battle button.  

TastyPastry #50 Posted Oct 19 2020 - 23:19

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View PostRaynorShyne, on Oct 19 2020 - 15:32, said:

Stop re-rolling.

 

We can do this all day.  Feeling better?

 

If you rerolled you'd still be bad. 



IndygoEEI #51 Posted Oct 19 2020 - 23:28

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View Post2MOEJOE, on Oct 18 2020 - 16:58, said:

You are an idiot.

 

Have some manners...



IndygoEEI #52 Posted Oct 19 2020 - 23:35

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View PostTastyPastry, on Oct 19 2020 - 17:19, said:

 

If you rerolled you'd still be bad. 


And then?



Pipinghot #53 Posted Oct 20 2020 - 01:25

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View PostRaynorShyne, on Oct 19 2020 - 14:33, said:

View Post_VIBECHECK_, on Oct 19 2020 - 11:41, said:

If I get the "high score" consistently over thousands of games and you do not, which of us likely has a better grasp of the game mechanics? 

It means you get a high score.   Period.

 

It means nothing else.

It means a great deal, you just don't want to admit it.



Whyld #54 Posted Oct 20 2020 - 01:56

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View PostBrynar, on Oct 18 2020 - 16:54, said:

Stat shaming in game accomplishes nothing. Playing to win does.


If you have 3k matches your xvm doesn’t mean more than your matches played.  You have 76k matches played and a 400 win8 and 44% winrate, you should be shamed for the lazy afk leeching pos you are.



TastyPastry #55 Posted Oct 20 2020 - 02:22

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View PostIndygoEEI, on Oct 19 2020 - 18:35, said:


And then?

 

You really need it spelled out for you? 



ThePigSheFlies #56 Posted Oct 20 2020 - 02:33

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View PostPipinghot, on Oct 18 2020 - 17:44, said:

Your analysis was filled with flaws and was debunked by multiple people.

Yes, good idea.

Yes, good idea.

Yes, good idea, but it doesn't go far enough.

 

The corollary to that idea is that people with bad or average stats should stop trying to insult other players for being better at a game than they are and they should stop trying to insult others by inventing fatuous arguments about stats and skills. Stat denying is a form of lying. At best it's self-deception about one's skill at a game, a person who is bad or average should just be honest with themselves and be able to admit that they're bad or average rather than looking for excuses to deny reality. It's only a game after all.

Why yes, yes they do.

 

Better players have better stats and win more, that's exactly how "better" works in a game.

Obviously, no one is a better person because they're better at  game. Then again you're arguing against a fake argument because no one says this. Of course it doesn't make someone a better person, everyone already knows that.

 

this, is what's known as a mic-drop reply.  there's really literally nothing left to say, other than perhaps those wondering about the 'stats' of how the stats do in fact correlate to skill and winning, there's numerous threads over at wotlabs that literally do go through the math of it.

 

warning.  this isn't statistical-math that most people will remember having done in college unless they did so recently, or have continued to work with statistics in their career in some fashion.



Green_Machine_ #57 Posted Oct 20 2020 - 02:43

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I look at avg tier avg damage, wr in that order - anyone that averages 1500 is awesome, anyone that averages 2k+ is godly at the game that doesnt lie - you cant fake 2k+ damage per game and be bad or a red line sniper or whatever - you know your [edited]

RaynorShyne #58 Posted Oct 20 2020 - 02:55

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View PostTastyPastry, on Oct 19 2020 - 16:19, said:

 

If you rerolled you'd still be bad. 

ooooh.  Zing.  Pow.  Zowie.   You got me, Sparky.

 

Now what?



RaynorShyne #59 Posted Oct 20 2020 - 02:56

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View PostTastyPastry, on Oct 19 2020 - 16:19, said:

 

If you rerolled you'd still be bad. 

(Deleting the dupe)


Edited by RaynorShyne, Oct 20 2020 - 02:56.


RaynorShyne #60 Posted Oct 20 2020 - 02:58

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View PostPipinghot, on Oct 19 2020 - 18:25, said:

It means a great deal, you just don't want to admit it.

And tell me, Great Sage - besides a score on a videogame - what does it say?







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