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Which Maps Do You Dislike & How Would You Fix Them - Discussion

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xXTheGameAceXx #1 Posted Nov 22 2020 - 21:11

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So I saw a post on Twitter from WoT about map tips for Ensk, which led to me thinking about how bad of a map it is and that it typically resides in Excluded Maps (it doesn't right now though; currently I have a grudge against Westfield because of all the 3-arty matches on it). I then started thinking about the fact that it and many other maps desperately need overhauls still to make them at least a bit less painful, and somewhat more accommodating to modern gameplay, and some various things I'd do to try and improve the maps. Thus now this post exists and you're reading it right now and deciding whether or not it interests you enough to actually participate in the discussion. Hopefully it does catch enough interest, and we can have a nice relaxed thread that isn't just the typical complaining/ranting post.

 

Now to start things off, here's how I'd like to see responses here go; but feel free to do it your own way too of course:

  • Disliked/Bad Map
  • Why you dislike the map/consider it to be bad.
  • What you'd do to remedy the issue(s).
  • Repeat for as many maps as you'd like.
  • Opinions on what others have said.

 

Alright, so I'll start things off with two different maps.

 

Bad Map: Ensk

Why It's Bad: The map is far too small, especially for upper tiers. Snipers in the field get spotted almost instantly, lights have almost no room to zoom, and just crossing over the tracks at the start of a match poses a health risk for anything not fast enough. City could use some revamps as well; heavies often get clogged up in a small section together.

Solution: Expand the map out by 150 - 200 meters on the North, South, and East borders, and push the spawn points back to match. Level out the field just a bit more, and add a few larger bushes to provide for a better field experience for all classes. Change building positions somewhat, and add another 50 - 75 meters to the west border to give some additional brawling space.

 

 

Disliked Map: Malinovka (Standard Battle)

Why I Dislike It: It's fairly unenjoyable for heavies in standard battle, and the field borders on unplayable most of the time. Most heavies take upwards of 3 minutes of the match before they even get into a position on the hill, and on the way they get rained on by artillery. This is especially notable for the south team. The field ends up being an endless standoff; if you poke out, you'll likely be spotted by the light that's almost always camping the bushes in the field, and you can't move out of the bushes to advance without getting fired on by every TD and Medium from the other side. Much of this is significantly better in encounter, though that also has its own issues (like a terrible cap point). Additionally, the north side is favored further in that tanks can hide out in the forest at the foot of the hill and shoot up anything coming down the hill without ever even being spotted. The south side is similar, but not quite the same.

Solution: Move the starting point for tanks on both sides closer to their positions for Encounter. Expand the windmill at the top of the hill for slightly better protection, as well as enlarging the rock on the lower path just a bit to provide better shelter from artillery blasts. Add a lower side path to the west that goes along the river, that allows for mediums to push up through and more actively engage.



SwollenOstrich #2 Posted Nov 22 2020 - 21:24

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Mountain pass: needs a cut through the mountains from each spawn to the western brawling area so the slow tanks aren't cut to pieces being forced to cross the area near the center bowl. 

 

Alternately just add some hard cover or adjust elevation to create a berm/ditch path for heavies to safely cross. There already is a slight impression, just make it deeper



SwollenOstrich #3 Posted Nov 22 2020 - 21:30

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Great wall. Fix: burn it, delete it, compensate every player 500 gold for every game ever played on it. Fire every designer who worked on it and send them and their entire extended families to the gulags.

 

Remember when they had Assault mode as an option on this map? <Shudder />

 

 



Cowcat137 #4 Posted Nov 22 2020 - 21:56

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All good points.  These maps are fossils from  when the tanks had less speed and view range.  They need not ditch the maps, just stretch them out a bit. Ensk actually has a beach on one side, be fun to drive on it (probably be results just like Normandy, but, hey).

xXTheGameAceXx #5 Posted Nov 22 2020 - 22:04

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View PostSwollenOstrich, on Nov 22 2020 - 15:24, said:

Mountain pass: needs a cut through the mountains from each spawn to the western brawling area so the slow tanks aren't cut to pieces being forced to cross the area near the center bowl. 

 

Alternately just add some hard cover or adjust elevation to create a berm/ditch path for heavies to safely cross. There already is a slight impression, just make it deeper


This. 100% this. I almost mentioned that map in my own post, actually. It's ridiculous how the way to the heavy brawl area gets so easily shot up. Unless you're fast and small, you're almost certainly going to get shot at least once going past. Most times I end up losing nearly half my health trying to make it.



BillDing1 #6 Posted Nov 22 2020 - 22:43

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Berlin: 

Problem: everything

Fix: Nuke it

 

Also revert karkov pilsen to the old versions. Karkov blows now and the east side of pilsen is way worse then what it used to be.

 

Also also the north corner in fishermen's bay can go die.


Edited by BillDing1, Nov 22 2020 - 22:45.


2MOEJOE #7 Posted Nov 22 2020 - 23:57

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Neither one of the maps the OP lists  are bad for good to great medium tankers in fact if your a good medium player it should be welcomed. The thing is most of you morons go city on ensk and camp on Mal.Its your fault if you dont like the maps play them correctly and you won't  have anything to [edited]about......but most of you don't. 



Waarheid #8 Posted Nov 23 2020 - 00:45

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I dislike the maps that I lose on. 

I like the maps that I win on. 

I would change it so that I win on all the maps. 



_Red_Saaryn_ #9 Posted Nov 23 2020 - 01:05

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Highway: one sided map

North advantages:

Many bushes that can be used to conceal light tanks and tds

Huge open field which prevent enemies from advancing since advancing means they will be spotted and attacked by the enemies, being an open field means the south tanks have no place to hide or conceal.

City is closer and geographically advantageous for slow tanks since these can go hill down unlike south which has to climb to reach the city which make them be the last to reach city and position themselves.

The position of buildings prevents artillery from the south to aim and hit tanks from the north. North arty on the other hand has the advantage since the buildings are positioned in it's favor

South advantages: sometimes north players rush city which help mediums rush the open field and win the enemy base

South disadvantages:

City geographical position makes it hard for tanks to reach on time

North base bushes and the open field in the middle prevent any attack or rush.

Hills positioning near south base prevent a good defense since it is required at minimum 10° of gun depresión to use them effectively and even with that artillery can easily dispose of those tanks due to the lack of bushes in said hills compared to north base.


Solution:

Discard the map since it is an annoying pain to play it as a south player

Optional solution: add more bushes in the middle, lower the hills at south base or add bushes to said south hills, either make both sides go hill down to reach city or make the city be higher on north to balance the time it takes north tanks to reach city.

Shia_Halud #10 Posted Nov 23 2020 - 01:07

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Wot should try something novel to make maps of ACTUAL battlefields, hills, valleys, water, mountains, or is that too hard? right Yuri.

Gtraxeman #11 Posted Nov 23 2020 - 01:08

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Mountain Pass and Empires Border are my most disliked. At least Empires Border is under rework, if things havent changed. Both are way to corridor restricted. The old version of Mountain Pass allowed movement on some of the hilltops. No idea how to fix this one.

omi5cron #12 Posted Nov 23 2020 - 01:10

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if they could enlarge small maps (Mines for example) and have a version for high tier matches. they are fine for low tier play, but are quite cramped for high tiers.

 

a specific change that happened to pass my mind. on Lakeville, have some kind of opening/ravine that leads from the valley ridge through the mountain heights and comes out at the lakeroad. with tanks forcing the ridge having shots at road crossers or even into city. and vice versa. it would allow an alternate route/escape hatch for valley and lake road.something that kind of opens up the options. like that mountain break in Empire along the north road. if that were closed off,it would be like lakeville valley. do you see whjat i am getting at? maybe the new pass in lakeville could follow a tramline that leads from western heights into the city! it is in the mountains after all!



xXTheGameAceXx #13 Posted Nov 23 2020 - 02:41

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View Post2MOEJOE, on Nov 22 2020 - 17:57, said:

Neither one of the maps the OP lists  are bad for good to great medium tankers in fact if your a good medium player it should be welcomed. The thing is most of you morons go city on ensk and camp on Mal.Its your fault if you dont like the maps play them correctly and you won't  have anything to [edited]about......but most of you don't. 


I'm not speaking in terms of a single tank type. I'm going over all aspects of a map, and it's also my opinions. Good grief.

 

View Post_Red_Saaryn_, on Nov 22 2020 - 19:05, said:

Optional solution: add more bushes in the middle, lower the hills at south base or add bushes to said south hills, either make both sides go hill down to reach city or make the city be higher on north to balance the time it takes north tanks to reach city.

I actually like this idea a fair deal. Bushes on the hills (and flattening them out a bit more) would make them ideal for TDs to provide sniper support. As it is, you have to fall back every time you fire or else you get blasted.

 

View PostGtraxeman, on Nov 22 2020 - 19:08, said:

Mountain Pass and Empires Border are my most disliked. At least Empires Border is under rework, if things havent changed. Both are way to corridor restricted. The old version of Mountain Pass allowed movement on some of the hilltops. No idea how to fix this one.


Ah, I completely forgot they were working on Empire's Border. Looking forward to that rework being completed. Biggest gripe w/ that one is that the center is almost entirely useless, and artillery can barely do squat. Mountain pass needs two major adjustments IMO: Lakebed in the middle needs to be wider w/ both sides further apart, and more cover for tanks to get past without being spotted and shot up. The other issue is the east side of the map; The north team w/ even one good hull-down tank can almost indefinitely hold at the top. That entire section needs to be drastically changed to even things out.

 

View Postomi5cron, on Nov 22 2020 - 19:10, said:

if they could enlarge small maps (Mines for example) and have a version for high tier matches. they are fine for low tier play, but are quite cramped for high tiers.

 

a specific change that happened to pass my mind. on Lakeville, have some kind of opening/ravine that leads from the valley ridge through the mountain heights and comes out at the lakeroad. with tanks forcing the ridge having shots at road crossers or even into city. and vice versa. it would allow an alternate route/escape hatch for valley and lake road.something that kind of opens up the options. like that mountain break in Empire along the north road. if that were closed off,it would be like lakeville valley. do you see whjat i am getting at? maybe the new pass in lakeville could follow a tramline that leads from western heights into the city! it is in the mountains after all!


I really really like this. The first idea you have is something I'd thought about once before, and would love to see. The original map version for low tiers (like 1 - 6), and an updated expanded one for the upper tiers!

 

I think it'd require a pretty significant change for Lakeville, like pretty significant alterations to the map itself to accommodate it well, but that'd actually be really awesome. Maybe it could lead up to a high point that has a bit of advantage for sniping. Seriously though, I'd love to see all of that happen!

 

Now this has me wondering if anyone in the community could take the files for maps and edit them manually, and see how that would come out. Imagine how awesome it'd be if the community could actually make maps or edits to currently existing maps, and submit them for approval and use in-game.



The_Pushok #14 Posted Nov 23 2020 - 05:48

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I like all maps. A few adjustments;

 

-Mines, it needs to be bigger or tier restricted.

-Encounter on cliff, pearl river, and westfield just needs to go away, those maps do not work with encounter well. Cliff maybe works, but the other two not at all, especially pear river.



aorticmojo #15 Posted Nov 23 2020 - 10:04

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Mines:  Restrict it to tier 5 or lower. 

 

Ensk:  Restrict it to tier 5 or lower

 

Paris:  Nuke the city

 

Fisherman's Bay:  Fix the bushes in the mid so they actually work. 

 

 



aorticmojo #16 Posted Nov 23 2020 - 10:05

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View PostThe_Pushok, on Nov 23 2020 - 04:48, said:

I like all maps. A few adjustments;

 

-Mines, it needs to be bigger or tier restricted.

-Encounter on cliff, pearl river, and westfield just needs to go away, those maps do not work with encounter well. Cliff maybe works, but the other two not at all, especially pear river.

Funny thing is I have only seen encounter on Westfield once and still haven't seen it on pearl river. 



rustyJunk #17 Posted Nov 23 2020 - 10:55

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I find no maps to be bad "per se" except for the tendency of being brawlfests and there is not enough room for the number of tanks involved.  Tank battles need more room to move to be fun.

 

On the other hand, I find many of the maps very inadequate for *particular* tanks.  A lot of maps are horrid for turretless TDs, same thing for arty, and as many people mentioned the presence of too many (more than 1 or 2) or absence of at least one arty makes some maps unpleasant.  As a matter of fact I find that exactly ONE arty (not more, not less) makes most maps better.


Edited by rustyJunk, Nov 23 2020 - 11:18.


xXTheGameAceXx #18 Posted Nov 23 2020 - 18:16

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View Postaorticmojo, on Nov 23 2020 - 04:05, said:

Funny thing is I have only seen encounter on Westfield once and still haven't seen it on pearl river. 


I see it on the former pretty frequently, although that's in-part because I block that map. Pearl River's doesn't come up quite as often, and it's a terrible idea that needs adjustments. The cap zone is in the southern region in a fairly well-protected section. Be the first team to slip in there, and you're practically guaranteed a victory.

 

View PostrustyJunk, on Nov 23 2020 - 04:55, said:

I find no maps to be bad "per se" except for the tendency of being brawlfests and there is not enough room for the number of tanks involved.  Tank battles need more room to move to be fun.

 

On the other hand, I find many of the maps very inadequate for *particular* tanks.  A lot of maps are horrid for turretless TDs, same thing for arty, and as many people mentioned the presence of too many (more than 1 or 2) or absence of at least one arty makes some maps unpleasant.  As a matter of fact I find that exactly ONE arty (not more, not less) makes most maps better.


Spot-on. In most cases, a map is often at least good for one specific tank type, which is usually where the problem lies. Maps need to be able to account for all of the various tank types, and have adequate space. That's why I think especially on some maps like Fisherman's Bay or Ensk, one of the biggest things that can be done is adding additional brawling space. Most maps there's a small designated area for the heavies to clog up together and trade shots, with very little movement/advancement.



Deputy276 #19 Posted Nov 23 2020 - 19:09

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Tundra: My wife always know when I am on this map when she hears the "oh no". She says "Tundra?" and I say yep. I've kinda figured out a workaround for it, but I still hate it. 

 

Paris: Absolute garbage. Let the Germans march in and have it! :D

 

 



oldewolfe #20 Posted Nov 23 2020 - 23:46

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Mines, Ensk, these I Despise despite having OK Games on them....      How would I fix them, I'd Lock them Down under a Tier Cap of Tier 5, MAYBE Tier 6 at the Most, but that would be the Highest Limit I'd give them...      Only other Options I'd say for these is for Higher Tiers, Open the Map Borders Out to Accommodate the Better VR's of the Higher Tiers...    Most of the Models are Filled Out to a Point as is for the "Realism" of the Scenery, just move the Borders and Fill In the Gaps...

 

Basically, Opening the Map Borders Out would Fix a lot of the Older Maps for the Higher Tiers...        Himmelsdork would be Perfect for this kind of Change, it's essentially Built for it being an Urban Map and the Changes to the Exterior of the Playable Area....

 

Berlin I'm still Iffy on, finding it Hard to get a Good Game in on that one, but I also Hardly see it as it is to even really Look....      I Like what they did with Pearl River so far, feels like they did Open Up a lot of Places on that Map the weren't Open before...

 

I miss my Hill on the North Side of the Castle on Erlenberg, was a great Sniping Place but it's View is Blocked by the Farm House now and not as High as it used to Be....     And my Sniper Hill on Redshire that they Leveled at the Farm House at the South Spawn, that was Great for getting the Heavies as they'd Cross Over back in the Day....

 

Would like to see a Prompt return on South Coast and Northwest, they were pretty much the most Open of the Maps with Swamp being pretty Close.....        Those are the Top of the Head Maps, they kinda Stick in the Craw when they Roll Around...     As for Others, I'd have to do a Little Digging into my Replays and see what Happened and Why before I could come up with Anything....







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