What are rules without punishment?
IGN tournament Violation
Started by
OutThnk
, Oct 07 2011 - 02:44
35 replies to this topic
#22 Posted Oct 07 2011 - 07:59
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Hey folks,
After reviewing the screenshots and chat a bit, this isn't something we're going to take action against as it was in good competitive spirit.
The rule is primarily there so that if there are cases of harassment, we can and will enforce it. Trash talking, bragging over a victory, etc. are things we don't want to tolerate in the competitive environment we're attempting to create here.
Being passionate about the game is important -- it's what drives you to want to win -- but having a calm, cool demeanor and respecting your opponent, win or lose, is just as important.
I will say, though, that OutThnk has taken a bit of unfair criticism; we didn't write the rules as well as we probably could have. He's handled this very courteously, so hopefully everyone can respect that.
We will be modifying these rules -- quite heavily, actually -- before announcing the next tournament.
But oh man, the next tournament is going to be awesome.
After reviewing the screenshots and chat a bit, this isn't something we're going to take action against as it was in good competitive spirit.
The rule is primarily there so that if there are cases of harassment, we can and will enforce it. Trash talking, bragging over a victory, etc. are things we don't want to tolerate in the competitive environment we're attempting to create here.
Being passionate about the game is important -- it's what drives you to want to win -- but having a calm, cool demeanor and respecting your opponent, win or lose, is just as important.
I will say, though, that OutThnk has taken a bit of unfair criticism; we didn't write the rules as well as we probably could have. He's handled this very courteously, so hopefully everyone can respect that.
We will be modifying these rules -- quite heavily, actually -- before announcing the next tournament.
But oh man, the next tournament is going to be awesome.
#23 Posted Oct 07 2011 - 14:36
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Thank you GeneralDirection. We really appreciate your decision. The decision of posting this was taken by considering the rule as we understood. We apologize VonChoker and his team for the same. You guys really played very nice sir, we appreciate your tactics and skill. And good luck with your upcoming battles. And we hope to see you all in clan wars soon. All good! Sorry again that we marred your and your teams enjoyment. happy Grinding
All good! Sorry again that we marred your and your teams enjoyment. happy Grinding
#24 Posted Oct 07 2011 - 14:51
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Thanks for your apology Memphis Rex. We will look forward to a rematch with you in the next tournament.
#25 Posted Oct 07 2011 - 14:59
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Thank you for looking into this for us. We look forward to playing as a team in future events/tournaments.
#26 Posted Oct 07 2011 - 22:48
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I have read alot of disquils being asked for and they all have the same commen thread YOU LOST. Execpt for the team that had the maurader all of your complaining abot what the rules really mean is why there are thosands of lawsuits cloging the justice system right now. Let me guess at least on of you tried to sue a fastfood restruant for making you fat right. You all played or play in a little league where you dont keep score so ther are no "loser". I would hope that you losing becuase u didnt put the effort in to training like the rest of us would help you not only in this game but in the real world. The best way to get the best out of life is to work hard and learn from your mistakes and I hope you can use these experiences to grow not to bitch and complain about some wording in the rules.
#27 Posted Oct 07 2011 - 23:03
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I am glad to see this to have been resolved. As a member of WWPD, I was saddened to see this as I did not think it would be such a defining point. But things like these I suppose allow the rules to be made so situations like this don't happen again. OutThnk and his clan should be glad that they made it through the first round in the tournament and gave our team a good run for our money. I have respect for all Thinkerton Alpha clan members and I hope to play with/against them on the battlefields.
Anyways, back to the best Free-to-play game out there... World of Tanks! XD
Anyways, back to the best Free-to-play game out there... World of Tanks! XD
#28 Posted Oct 07 2011 - 23:35
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Ok, being the clan leader of WWPD, and a member of the tournament team, I guess I should weigh in here.
First off, I understand where OutThnk is coming from. I do not blame him for his interpretation of the rule nor any of his teammates, they are going based on the black and white read of the rules and wanted to bring it to the admins' attention. Now I am sure the rules were never intended to be set up in such a way to prevent sportsmanship, but making too general of a rule can happen and always be changed after some one has pointed it out. I believe in the spirit of Wargaming.net here would never purposefully mean to prevent teams wishing each other luck, congratulating them on a win, or a friendly good game hand shake after a match. If nothing else, OutThnk pointed out a minor flaw with the rules and the way they were worded and was simply going "by the books" so for that there should be no ill-will towards OutThnk nor towards Thinkerton as a whole. I am sure they are a great group of players and were simply doing their best to uphold the letter of the law, which I am glad was now clarified and corrected by GeneralDirection.
With that said I do want to make it clear though that in our recruiting practice, match etiquette, and player base; I will not stand for a single member of my clan to trash talk, harass, or otherwise reflect poorly upon themselves and the WWPD as a whole. I was not able to participate in the match last night when this occurred as I had other commitments that took priority. I did instruct my team and its captains, as with the previous tourney that we competed in, that it is required of them to wish their opponents good luck and to have fun, and at the end of the game regardless of outcome they must wish the other team a good game or congrats on their win and good luck in the next match. I take sportsmanship very seriously as it reflects on the individual and their moral character. If my team members did not wish Thinkerton, and AoD tonight, any sort of "GL/HF" or "GG"; I would be fairly displeased with them.
Take from this what you will, but I am glad things were resolved in a timely manner with a result that is acceptable to all interests involved. As for OutThnk and Tinkerton, I wish them luck in their clan wars and future tournaments, and I look forward to seeing you guys in the battlefield!
First off, I understand where OutThnk is coming from. I do not blame him for his interpretation of the rule nor any of his teammates, they are going based on the black and white read of the rules and wanted to bring it to the admins' attention. Now I am sure the rules were never intended to be set up in such a way to prevent sportsmanship, but making too general of a rule can happen and always be changed after some one has pointed it out. I believe in the spirit of Wargaming.net here would never purposefully mean to prevent teams wishing each other luck, congratulating them on a win, or a friendly good game hand shake after a match. If nothing else, OutThnk pointed out a minor flaw with the rules and the way they were worded and was simply going "by the books" so for that there should be no ill-will towards OutThnk nor towards Thinkerton as a whole. I am sure they are a great group of players and were simply doing their best to uphold the letter of the law, which I am glad was now clarified and corrected by GeneralDirection.
With that said I do want to make it clear though that in our recruiting practice, match etiquette, and player base; I will not stand for a single member of my clan to trash talk, harass, or otherwise reflect poorly upon themselves and the WWPD as a whole. I was not able to participate in the match last night when this occurred as I had other commitments that took priority. I did instruct my team and its captains, as with the previous tourney that we competed in, that it is required of them to wish their opponents good luck and to have fun, and at the end of the game regardless of outcome they must wish the other team a good game or congrats on their win and good luck in the next match. I take sportsmanship very seriously as it reflects on the individual and their moral character. If my team members did not wish Thinkerton, and AoD tonight, any sort of "GL/HF" or "GG"; I would be fairly displeased with them.
Take from this what you will, but I am glad things were resolved in a timely manner with a result that is acceptable to all interests involved. As for OutThnk and Tinkerton, I wish them luck in their clan wars and future tournaments, and I look forward to seeing you guys in the battlefield!
#29 Posted Oct 07 2011 - 23:36
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So what would you guys consider a Rule 4 violation ?
I think if the opposite team spammed the in game chat, chatted in a way to distract the other team, non relevant chat, and or posts that can be considered offensive or vulgar.
I think if the opposite team spammed the in game chat, chatted in a way to distract the other team, non relevant chat, and or posts that can be considered offensive or vulgar.
#30 Posted Oct 08 2011 - 00:10
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P_McKenna, on Oct 07 2011 - 23:36, said:
So what would you guys consider a Rule 4 violation ?
I think if the opposite team spammed the in game chat, chatted in a way to distract the other team, non relevant chat, and or posts that can be considered offensive or vulgar.
I think if the opposite team spammed the in game chat, chatted in a way to distract the other team, non relevant chat, and or posts that can be considered offensive or vulgar.
Yes, that would be a violation.
#31 Posted Oct 08 2011 - 00:33
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Darqueling, on Oct 07 2011 - 23:35, said:
Ok, being the clan leader of WWPD, and a member of the tournament team, I guess I should weigh in here.
First off, I understand where OutThnk is coming from. I do not blame him for his interpretation of the rule nor any of his teammates, they are going based on the black and white read of the rules and wanted to bring it to the admins' attention. Now I am sure the rules were never intended to be set up in such a way to prevent sportsmanship, but making too general of a rule can happen and always be changed after some one has pointed it out. I believe in the spirit of Wargaming.net here would never purposefully mean to prevent teams wishing each other luck, congratulating them on a win, or a friendly good game hand shake after a match. If nothing else, OutThnk pointed out a minor flaw with the rules and the way they were worded and was simply going "by the books" so for that there should be no ill-will towards OutThnk nor towards Thinkerton as a whole. I am sure they are a great group of players and were simply doing their best to uphold the letter of the law, which I am glad was now clarified and corrected by GeneralDirection.
With that said I do want to make it clear though that in our recruiting practice, match etiquette, and player base; I will not stand for a single member of my clan to trash talk, harass, or otherwise reflect poorly upon themselves and the WWPD as a whole. I was not able to participate in the match last night when this occurred as I had other commitments that took priority. I did instruct my team and its captains, as with the previous tourney that we competed in, that it is required of them to wish their opponents good luck and to have fun, and at the end of the game regardless of outcome they must wish the other team a good game or congrats on their win and good luck in the next match. I take sportsmanship very seriously as it reflects on the individual and their moral character. If my team members did not wish Thinkerton, and AoD tonight, any sort of "GL/HF" or "GG"; I would be fairly displeased with them.
Take from this what you will, but I am glad things were resolved in a timely manner with a result that is acceptable to all interests involved. As for OutThnk and Tinkerton, I wish them luck in their clan wars and future tournaments, and I look forward to seeing you guys in the battlefield!
First off, I understand where OutThnk is coming from. I do not blame him for his interpretation of the rule nor any of his teammates, they are going based on the black and white read of the rules and wanted to bring it to the admins' attention. Now I am sure the rules were never intended to be set up in such a way to prevent sportsmanship, but making too general of a rule can happen and always be changed after some one has pointed it out. I believe in the spirit of Wargaming.net here would never purposefully mean to prevent teams wishing each other luck, congratulating them on a win, or a friendly good game hand shake after a match. If nothing else, OutThnk pointed out a minor flaw with the rules and the way they were worded and was simply going "by the books" so for that there should be no ill-will towards OutThnk nor towards Thinkerton as a whole. I am sure they are a great group of players and were simply doing their best to uphold the letter of the law, which I am glad was now clarified and corrected by GeneralDirection.
With that said I do want to make it clear though that in our recruiting practice, match etiquette, and player base; I will not stand for a single member of my clan to trash talk, harass, or otherwise reflect poorly upon themselves and the WWPD as a whole. I was not able to participate in the match last night when this occurred as I had other commitments that took priority. I did instruct my team and its captains, as with the previous tourney that we competed in, that it is required of them to wish their opponents good luck and to have fun, and at the end of the game regardless of outcome they must wish the other team a good game or congrats on their win and good luck in the next match. I take sportsmanship very seriously as it reflects on the individual and their moral character. If my team members did not wish Thinkerton, and AoD tonight, any sort of "GL/HF" or "GG"; I would be fairly displeased with them.
Take from this what you will, but I am glad things were resolved in a timely manner with a result that is acceptable to all interests involved. As for OutThnk and Tinkerton, I wish them luck in their clan wars and future tournaments, and I look forward to seeing you guys in the battlefield!
This was a very good reply and very respectful showing good sportsmanship. That's not quite how I saw this thread start and, imo, it may be painted all rosy by all but still wreaks from the vile stench that I saw. What I saw was an individual try a desperate attempt to have a fair win overturned. He could have simply posted that WG might want to reword the first sentence to reflect the rest of the rule instead of insisting on a disqualification...really???...still shaking my head. His own teammates came out against him and even showed alot of class for apologizing for this post. Nowhere have I seen an apology from OutThnk, which still makes him look bad to most of us. Society has changed so much. When I was young sportmanship was idolized, and we had heros who we looked up to that if they did wrong, we didn't see it. Today's sports figures typically don't show good values and are often shown behaving poorly and unsportsmanlike. Those players also are often in the news for various criminal acts, using performance enhancing drugs and even other illegal drugs. Two of my children also play WOT, and this kind of post shows them a bad example of sportsmanship. General Direction (still has my vote for mvp) said there was a bit of "unfair criticsm", but I think the OP brought every bit of that on himself and still shames himself for having no dignity to apologize. Btw, I was NOT on the team that he wanted to have disqualified.
#32 Posted Oct 08 2011 - 05:10
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It seems to me that nobody need feel slighted. Amongst my other qualifications, I also happen to have a law degree...
1) The rule was violated. This is beyond dispute.
2) No punishment is specifically laid out for the violation of this rule. The rules as a whole use 'may' or 'can', implying some discretion.
I, too, believe that any violation be punished. Were I king for a day, I'd suggest that the team captain of the offending team be penalised 100 credits in his in-game account. That way the violation is acknowledged, and the punishment is of a level applicable to the crime, and everybody's happy.
1) The rule was violated. This is beyond dispute.
2) No punishment is specifically laid out for the violation of this rule. The rules as a whole use 'may' or 'can', implying some discretion.
I, too, believe that any violation be punished. Were I king for a day, I'd suggest that the team captain of the offending team be penalised 100 credits in his in-game account. That way the violation is acknowledged, and the punishment is of a level applicable to the crime, and everybody's happy.
#33 Posted Oct 08 2011 - 10:54
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The_Chieftain, on Oct 08 2011 - 05:10, said:
It seems to me that nobody need feel slighted. Amongst my other qualifications, I also happen to have a law degree...
1) The rule was violated. This is beyond dispute.
2) No punishment is specifically laid out for the violation of this rule. The rules as a whole use 'may' or 'can', implying some discretion.
I, too, believe that any violation be punished. Were I king for a day, I'd suggest that the team captain of the offending team be penalised 100 credits in his in-game account. That way the violation is acknowledged, and the punishment is of a level applicable to the crime, and everybody's happy.
1) The rule was violated. This is beyond dispute.
2) No punishment is specifically laid out for the violation of this rule. The rules as a whole use 'may' or 'can', implying some discretion.
I, too, believe that any violation be punished. Were I king for a day, I'd suggest that the team captain of the offending team be penalised 100 credits in his in-game account. That way the violation is acknowledged, and the punishment is of a level applicable to the crime, and everybody's happy.
Back in your hatch, sir! No credit penalties here! http://forum.worldof...mile-tongue.gif
#34 Posted Oct 08 2011 - 17:11
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GeneralDirection, on Oct 08 2011 - 10:54, said:
Back in your hatch, sir! No credit penalties here! http://forum.worldof...mile-tongue.gif
So tired right now, but that gave me a good laugh
#35 Posted Oct 09 2011 - 02:35
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GeneralDirection, on Oct 08 2011 - 10:54, said:
Back in your hatch, sir! No credit penalties here! http://forum.worldof...mile-tongue.gif
Yes, Dear.
#36 Posted Oct 31 2011 - 22:40
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had 2 occasions to be in an authoritative position in a tourney in the BFCL and TTW and I feel bad for the rest of the crew on the OP's team this is ugly. I have never seen anyone complain about a sportsmanship oriented gesture. And I have seen a lot but not to this magnitude.
But I would like to +10 for having an Admin staff with a sense of humor!!
But I would like to +10 for having an Admin staff with a sense of humor!!
