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Incoming: First round of HE Shells sandbox test results


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RamaLamaDingDong1 #41 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:19

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View Postn4cer67, on Feb 19 2021 - 20:17, said:

Not really, it's horrible for the game. HE is supposed to do damage by direct or indirect hits. The only ones that like this nerf are the ones playing LT's and HVY's. They keep dumbing the game down for the vocal self entitlement few that think every game should be a win without damage to their tank.

This man knows and is 110% correct. Unfortunately it doesn't matter as what WG is going to do is dumb it down more an more.


Edited by RamaLamaDingDong1, Feb 19 2021 - 20:21.


Snohoe #42 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:20

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View Postn4cer67, on Feb 19 2021 - 13:17, said:

Not really, it's horrible for the game. HE is supposed to do damage by direct or indirect hits. The only ones that like this nerf are the ones playing LT's and HVY's. They keep dumbing the game down for the vocal self entitlement few that think every game should be a win without damage to their tank.

Nah, the real dumbing down are those games where hulldown / sidescraping tanks would just not bother to aim at each other or maneuver and instead start slinging HE back and forth... This makes people less able to just press a key 2 times to skip the need to aim. Now they need to nerf the alpha on gold rounds next.

 

Some of these people live in another universe.... Needing to aim = dumbing down somehow.... At least we know the ratio of smart to dumb people. 70%



RamaLamaDingDong1 #43 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:23

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View PostSnohoe, on Feb 19 2021 - 20:20, said:

Nah, the real dumbing down are those games where hulldown tanks would just not bother to aim at each other or maneuver and instead start slinging HE back and forth... This makes people less able to just press a key 2 times to skip the need to aim. Now they need to nerf the alpha on gold rounds next.

No it doesn't an no that doesn't happen with any regularity. OF COURSE reduce the Alpha was that predictable. Maybe next reduce any tank you don't want to a target pc and make everyone play the same tank that YOU like with same gun an ammo on same map so long as you're happy right.



bfp4f360 #44 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:25

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Go with the changes, that way all my heavy tanks get buffed. Oh and makes my chieftain that much more OP cause lmbo. And any other hulldown tanks. 

Snohoe #45 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:26

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View PostRamaLamaDingDong1, on Feb 19 2021 - 13:23, said:

No it doesn't an no that doesn't happen with any regularity. OF COURSE reduce the Alpha was that predictable. Maybe next reduce any tank you don't want to a target pc and make everyone play the same tank that YOU like with same gun an ammo on same map so long as you're happy right.

So you are also against gold ammo being nerfed? Pressing a key twice and paying a little more should not eliminate / simply the need to aim. It might not strictly be pay to win but its close to it. Alpha nerfing means lesser skilled players at least don't become hopeless. Just that those willing to aim / maneuver aren't punished for it.



martingalindo #46 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:27

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View PostSnohoe, on Feb 19 2021 - 16:15, said:

 

How? People cant just shoot a tank in the most heavily armored part of it and deal roughly 1/2 damage now. You need to aim with HE now just like you do any other round. That is more "tactical" and skill based actually. 

Not at all, being skill based is not the same as tactical. For example: i know that HE can track and do damage and i use it in some situations even if it lowers my damage.
This is a tactical decision, because i know i can slow the enemy advance even if i do less damage for example when i am on a medium tank with a 105mm gun.

Aiming good is skill based sure but that does not mean that it is tactical.
This change makes HE work like AP does not explode, and work if it only touch the main armour, some times that type of shoots are imposible for example shooting with a E-50M to the front of a Obj. 140 i have two choises (or maybe 3) : Load APCR/HEAT and shoot the front of the armor (or track him knowing that i am going to do 0 damage) or load HE track him and make little damage (100-150 in most of the cases).
I like the idea of HE damage reduction i does not like the idea of not working as explosive...
So by this changes u remove tactical desitions and is making the game less diverse.

So in my opinion damage reduction is okey?? yes of course. But if it shoots the track, following with my example instead of make 100-150  it should make 50-80. Keep me the option of think what ammunition works better in every situation.

 

View Postbeetbear, on Feb 19 2021 - 14:02, said:

And please once you launch, make it so HE shells that do not penetrate count as blocks for missions. I'm playing in my Kranvagn trying to finish off the block mission for the 279e and I got hit 17 times in a game. 13 of those by HE. It's absurd. If it doesn't penetrate that's a block. plain and simple.

 


Agred if the HE does no damage it should count as damaged blocked to me.

 

 

EDIT: and to be clear my problem is not that i do 0 damage vs a ultra heavy Maus if i shoot the track (that is still not good at all, it shoul not do 300 but it should at least do 50hp damage.)

My problem is that an FV183/FV4005 (which i does not have any of them) can do 0 damage if it shoots a EBR in the wheel and then does not touch the main armour.


Edited by martingalindo, Feb 19 2021 - 20:31.


Snohoe #47 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:30

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View Postmartingalindo, on Feb 19 2021 - 13:27, said:

 

 

You utterly avoided the rest of my answer. HE plays the role of risk vs reward, more damage for less pen meaning you get rewarded for properly flanking tanks / tactically knowing what tanks can be penned where with low pen.

 

And in what world is shooting the track of a 140 facing you with HE the best option (as in not a track wheel shot / up into his hull)? If he is in the open to allys / in a bad / cresting position with no gun depress tracking him is viable to get assit damage, otherwise outright damage is better. E50M is perfectly capable of penning a 140 in at least 4  spots frontally. 



martingalindo #48 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:37

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View PostSnohoe, on Feb 19 2021 - 16:30, said:

 

You utterly avoided the rest of my answer. HE plays the role of risk vs reward, more damage for less pen meaning you get rewarded for properly flanking tanks / tactically knowing what tanks can be penned where with low pen. 


I answer the part on "how is this making the game less tactical"... I think  tactical is not the same as skill based.

A lot of people has zero criteria where to use HE properly, when they do that they do little damage and u can farm them i does not see the problem in the live server for that.

Yep getting shoot in the  front of the Super conqueror/Maus, etc, etc, and lost a lot of HP is stupid. That HE does not explode is also stupid


Edited by martingalindo, Feb 19 2021 - 20:37.


Snohoe #49 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:42

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View Postmartingalindo, on Feb 19 2021 - 13:37, said:

I think  tactical is not the same as skill based.

 

 

 What? I'm sorry, what is the criteria for skill based if not tactics in a tactical shooter?... Map knowledge, tank knowledge, weakspots and what angles you can pen them, shell velocity and leads to give, reading the minimap / team list to see where to go / how to react. Skill in this game is "tactical".

 


Edited by Snohoe, Feb 19 2021 - 20:48.


martingalindo #50 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:42

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View PostSnohoe, on Feb 19 2021 - 16:30, said:

 

And in what world is shooting the track of a 140 facing you with HE the best option (as in not a track wheel shot / up into his hull)? If he is in the open to allys / in a bad / cresting position with no gun depress tracking him is viable to get assit damage, otherwise outright damage is better. E50M is perfectly capable of penning a 140 in at least 4  spots frontally. 

I think u never read me i never said u cant pen a 140... i said u can pen him or track with APCR or use HE and track and make damage at the same time...

With the second option u gain time, facing a enemy that if gets close it gets more dpm than u



martingalindo #51 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:46

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View PostSnohoe, on Feb 19 2021 - 16:42, said:

 

 

 

 What? I'm sorry, what is the criteria for skill based if not tactics in a tactical shooter?...

 


Skill based can be reflexes also, i meet a lot of good players that had better reflexes than me but make the bad choose in the map and in how to face enemies
So yea. You can have a lot of skills in reflexes but not have any tactical skills, u can have a lot of tactical skills and lack of reflexes and u can have both.
Not all skill u need in this game are reflexes and not all are tactical u need both.
This is my point making HE similar to AP removes the need of tactical skills in what type of ammo use and when



Snohoe #52 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:47

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In that situation you ram the 140 with your E50M if you can, pushing the fight in your favor, then you angle your front and put your gun matlet into his gun to block his heat while shooting his cuplas / hull roof with your very accurate gun while pushing his tank as he try's to aim for your turret cheeks. Letting the 140 get close is in your favor if he is alone. So go for damaging shots unless tracking means assist damage. 

lead_deficiency #53 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:50

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Don't fool yourself, this game is all about money.

If your using HE and content with its performance than your not spending enough money.

 

Like a game of rock, paper, scissors - it doesn't matter a tank's strength there's a weakness that could be exploited.

Well nerfing HE because there's elite heavy players that believe they should walking through the map destroying as they wish,

Just remember it's the money and only about the money.

 

 



kohotter #54 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:50

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I did not participate in the sandbox (only via Twitch streamers) and I've never posted in a forum like this, but these HE results are disappointing, to say the least. 

 

It's like asking "Do you hate arties?" and of course the majority would say yes, but we need to realize that it's a balancing mechanic integral to the game. I think the same goes to HE shells. 

 

If the changes are implemented, how am I going to fight against a hull-down Cheiften, IS7, 279e etc. in my 60TP? That's the question I want to ask. 



martingalindo #55 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:56

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View PostSnohoe, on Feb 19 2021 - 16:47, said:

In that situation you ram the 140 with your E50M if you can, pushing the fight in your favor, then you angle your front and put your gun matlet into his gun to block his heat while shooting his cuplas / hull roof with your very accurate gun while pushing his tank. Letting the 140 get close is in your favor if he is alone. So go for damaging shots unless tracking means assist damage. 


Well yea ram is other thing not we are talking about now....


Edited by martingalindo, Feb 19 2021 - 20:57.


Snohoe #56 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 20:59

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View Postmartingalindo, on Feb 19 2021 - 13:56, said:


Well yea ram is other think not we are talking about now....

Man, I got a feeling that im being trolled. The point of that was dismantling one of your super rare scenarios where HE would somehow be less "tactical" that it is now even though it would become more so.



martingalindo #57 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 21:15

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View PostSnohoe, on Feb 19 2021 - 16:59, said:

Man, I got a feeling that im being trolled. The point of that was dismantling one of your super rare scenarios where HE would somehow be less "tactical" that it is now even though it would become more so.


Not trolling

I like the idea that HE does less damage, i does not like the idea that it work like an AP.



bake3020 #58 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 21:20

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I am quite sure that is was actually roughly a 70% hate of the changes and WG is lying through their teeth just to shove this down everyone's throat.  Oh well, go ahead, it's your funeral.

martingalindo #59 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 21:43

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View Postbake3020, on Feb 19 2021 - 17:20, said:

I am quite sure that is was actually roughly a 70% hate of the changes and WG is lying through their teeth just to shove this down everyone's throat.  Oh well, go ahead, it's your funeral.

I dont know but what im sure is that will change the current balance. hulldown tanks will be more problematic now, and i does not care about low penn ones like Kragnvang but Chieftain will be a serious problem with this changes.

They will have to change a lot of tanks also like the ones that use HE as main resource



Tedsc #60 Posted Feb 19 2021 - 21:56

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View PostTahllol, on Feb 19 2021 - 18:26, said:


Russian heavies for the most part are not slow in any way shape or form. Hell, even the V4 isn't slow and that is a heavily armored TD. These changes, just make the Russian and Chinese tanks even more powerful, as very few things will reliably pen them from the fronts or sides. Not to mention forget even bothering to shoot at the 279e or Cheifton from the front once hull down or angled on a ridgeline as very few things have the pen to hurt them.

A defender is a pretty solid heavy at tier 8 and one I don't mind (much) in current meta when I get stuck in +2 with it.  Even against the cartoonish 279e, HE rounds from a defender do  some damage.  I WILL take the shot.  Against a 279e in a defender with HE changes I would likely just drive away (or depending on what tanks are on my team walk away from my computer).  There is no point to playing against 279es without HE in it's current form.






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