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Ideas to balance premium rounds and armour.


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braden83 #1 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 01:24

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Currently in the game. Gold rounds have no downsides when used other than the higher expense. This can make it hard on heavys when fighting a light tank. It should struggle to pen their front armor, but the light tank can press 2 and pen. People also can just load full gold if they want and have a high chancing of penning with no downsides. Premium ammo deserves to have a downside which would result in having to know whether or not that higher penetration is worth it in different situations. Premium ammo damage should be reduced by 30%, giving it a downside over standard ammo. This will result in more situational awareness being required at tier 10 as you must decide if the higher pen or if the higher damage is worth it. For tanks that cannot be penned when hull-down or side scraping need a rework as well. Such as the kranvagn or the 705A. To make the tanks require more skill needed when in their optimal positions a small, weak spot should be added to the tank requiring the player to know how to use the vehicle and work over the weak spot.
If anyone would take my suggestions on the game I would highly appreciate it!



2MOEJOE #2 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 01:44

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If you dont aim it dosen't  pen especially when playing tier X.You just don't auto aim and pull the trigger if that was the case I would be a  super duper unicum  by now.Look at my most played tanks they live on premium  ammo and that's primarily my load out.

Edited by 2MOEJOE, Feb 23 2021 - 01:44.


Insanefriend #3 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 02:10

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View Postbraden83, on Feb 22 2021 - 18:24, said:

Currently in the game. Gold rounds have no downsides when used other than the higher expense. 

 

This is untrue of HEAT rounds, as spaced armor and tracks can counter HEAT rounds.  But for APCR rounds it's closer to being correct.



GeorgePreddy #4 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 02:28

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Omega_Weapon #5 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 02:43

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View Postbraden83, on Feb 22 2021 - 19:24, said:

Currently in the game. Gold rounds have no downsides when used other than the higher expense. This can make it hard on heavys when fighting a light tank. It should struggle to pen their front armor, but the light tank can press 2 and pen. People also can just load full gold if they want and have a high chancing of penning with no downsides. Premium ammo deserves to have a downside which would result in having to know whether or not that higher penetration is worth it in different situations. Premium ammo damage should be reduced by 30%, giving it a downside over standard ammo. This will result in more situational awareness being required at tier 10 as you must decide if the higher pen or if the higher damage is worth it. For tanks that cannot be penned when hull-down or side scraping need a rework as well. Such as the kranvagn or the 705A. To make the tanks require more skill needed when in their optimal positions a small, weak spot should be added to the tank requiring the player to know how to use the vehicle and work over the weak spot.
If anyone would take my suggestions on the game I would highly appreciate it!

 

Nerfing gold ammo so that it does less damage than standard ammo could work but only if two major conditions are met at the same time. Firstly all of the well armoured tanks would have to be rebalanced with worse armour and/or workable weak spots, since they were originally balanced against premium ammo, not regular ammo. Secondly, Premium rounds that do less damage need to be reduced in cost by a matching percentage. The first item would require a huge amount of work on Wargaming's part, and both of them would result in reduced profits for Wargaming. Is it any wonder they have not made such a change to premium ammo so far?


Edited by Omega_Weapon, Feb 23 2021 - 02:43.


Projectile_Misfired #6 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 03:57

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View Postbraden83, on Feb 23 2021 - 00:24, said:

Currently in the game. Gold rounds have no downsides when used other than the higher expense. This can make it hard on heavys when fighting a light tank. It should struggle to pen their front armor, but the light tank can press 2 and pen. People also can just load full gold if they want and have a high chancing of penning with no downsides. Premium ammo deserves to have a downside which would result in having to know whether or not that higher penetration is worth it in different situations. Premium ammo damage should be reduced by 30%, giving it a downside over standard ammo. This will result in more situational awareness being required at tier 10 as you must decide if the higher pen or if the higher damage is worth it. For tanks that cannot be penned when hull-down or side scraping need a rework as well. Such as the kranvagn or the 705A. To make the tanks require more skill needed when in their optimal positions a small, weak spot should be added to the tank requiring the player to know how to use the vehicle and work over the weak spot.
If anyone would take my suggestions on the game I would highly appreciate it!

Stop running onto the battlefield thinking that your heavily armored tank is supposed to be invincible. 

If a player is shooting you with Premium ammo, when they could have just as easily penned you with 'normal' ammo, they are just wasting Credits. You should do what I do and laugh at the situation...especially is they miss and/or bounce.

If you are running around in a heavily armored tank, you should "expect" to be pummeled with Premium ammo. 

But, if you really want to teach them a lesson, tap YOUR "2" key and give them a taste of their own medicine. Turn-about is fair play.....more so when they PM you about it after the game.



_Katyusha___ #7 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 04:21

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View PostProjectile_Misfired, on Feb 23 2021 - 03:57, said:

Stop running onto the battlefield thinking that your heavily armored tank is supposed to be invincible. 

 

^ Pretty much this. I play light tanks and cannot pen heavy frontally without carefuly aiming, apcr or not, flanking is always better, and when i play heavies, i can bounce a number of apcr's, again, keep moving the hull and covering weak spots.

 

ACPR is not the problem, just another victim of bad RNG. Just imagine those Tigers I crews complaining of payforwin when one hit killed by firefly's apcr.



RealBattousai #8 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 06:11

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here were go again... you know how to 'balance' prem rounds... well why not let everyone use them... oh wait you can... there that was easy.

 

P.S.... you still got to aim even if you're using prem,



Saydzhi #9 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 06:40

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Or everyone could join the LT master race where everything pens so you don't need gold ammo.  Bet that would cut into WG's profits. 

 

Though you'd still get the people spamming gold I think.  :trollface:



Gorod #10 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 07:23

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View PostOmega_Weapon, on Feb 23 2021 - 02:43, said:

 

Nerfing gold ammo so that it does less damage than standard ammo could work but only if two major conditions are met at the same time. Firstly all of the well armoured tanks would have to be rebalanced with worse armour and/or workable weak spots, since they were originally balanced against premium ammo, not regular ammo. Secondly, Premium rounds that do less damage need to be reduced in cost by a matching percentage. The first item would require a huge amount of work on Wargaming's part, and both of them would result in reduced profits for Wargaming. Is it any wonder they have not made such a change to premium ammo so far?

 

Untrue and BS. Almost nobody used gold in Team Clash due to results not being added to your record. Everybody played standard ammo. And everybody did just fine, unless you dont know the weak areas you dont need no gold ammo to penetrate a heavy. Medium and light tanks are not made to charge heavies with frontal attacks, TD's have more than enough penetration to pen almost any heavy pretty much anywhere in frontal armor. And when heavies brawling they are close and personal and have no problem with aiming for weak areas from such short distance. 

Team Clash proved gold ammo is not needed at all, even for T10 vs T10. What is going on now in random is madness, Tier 10's gold spamming against Tier 8's with gold rounds exclusively 99% of the times. Just on auto aim clicking in general penning EVERYTHING right in face of thickest armor Tier 8 heavies have, leaving them absolutely no chance to bounce any shots despite doing everything to hide weaker parts. 340mm heat goes right thru defenders turret ffs. VK 168.01 is getting penned right in gun mask like its made of butter even by Tier 8's gold spammers. Its madness.  



Kefic #11 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 08:03

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View PostGorod, on Feb 22 2021 - 22:23, said:

 

Untrue and BS. Almost nobody used gold in Team Clash due to results not being added to your record. Everybody played standard ammo. And everybody did just fine, unless you dont know the weak areas you dont need no gold ammo to penetrate a heavy. Medium and light tanks are not made to charge heavies with frontal attacks, TD's have more than enough penetration to pen almost any heavy pretty much anywhere in frontal armor. And when heavies brawling they are close and personal and have no problem with aiming for weak areas from such short distance. 

Team Clash proved gold ammo is not needed at all, even for T10 vs T10. What is going on now in random is madness, Tier 10's gold spamming against Tier 8's with gold rounds exclusively 99% of the times. Just on auto aim clicking in general penning EVERYTHING right in face of thickest armor Tier 8 heavies have, leaving them absolutely no chance to bounce any shots despite doing everything to hide weaker parts. 340mm heat goes right thru defenders turret ffs. VK 168.01 is getting penned right in gun mask like its made of butter even by Tier 8's gold spammers. Its madness.  

That wasn't my experience with Team Clash.  Every battle I was in gold was thrown at me constantly, but especially by team Cabbage.

 

I made a killing though not using food or large kits.



RagnarokBazil #12 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 08:14

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View PostKefic, on Feb 23 2021 - 02:03, said:

That wasn't my experience with Team Clash.  Every battle I was in gold was thrown at me constantly, but especially by team Cabbage.

 

I made a killing though not using food or large kits.

 

i made a killing on the SA server.. 7 million credits at tier 5 in like 3 hours..



TheJeep1 #13 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 08:27

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View Postbraden83, on Feb 22 2021 - 16:24, said:

Currently in the game. Gold rounds have no downsides when used other than the higher expense.

First sentence......wow. 



Knyaz_Svyatoslav #14 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 08:32

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View PostGorod, on Feb 23 2021 - 07:23, said:

 

Untrue and BS. Almost nobody used gold in Team Clash due to results not being added to your record. Everybody played standard ammo. And everybody did just fine, unless you dont know the weak areas you dont need no gold ammo to penetrate a heavy. Medium and light tanks are not made to charge heavies with frontal attacks, TD's have more than enough penetration to pen almost any heavy pretty much anywhere in frontal armor. And when heavies brawling they are close and personal and have no problem with aiming for weak areas from such short distance. 

Team Clash proved gold ammo is not needed at all, even for T10 vs T10. What is going on now in random is madness, Tier 10's gold spamming against Tier 8's with gold rounds exclusively 99% of the times. Just on auto aim clicking in general penning EVERYTHING right in face of thickest armor Tier 8 heavies have, leaving them absolutely no chance to bounce any shots despite doing everything to hide weaker parts. 340mm heat goes right thru defenders turret ffs. VK 168.01 is getting penned right in gun mask like its made of butter even by Tier 8's gold spammers. Its madness.  


I had the following situation in team clash. I was in my k91 on Lakeville sitting on the middle road firing into the town. There was a 430U who was trapped next to a building whom I could shoot and all he could do in that situation was angle his armor against me (which he did). Initially I fired regular ammo which has great pen on the k91 but RNG said FU and my shots which I aimed at his LP went to his upper plate and bounced. After that happened for like 3 or 4 shots, and I knew that if I didn't start doing damage to him my team would lose, I switched to HEAT rounds and boy did it work like a charm! Even when my shell missed and hit his upper plate, it still penned. So yeah, against heavily armored targets, gold ammo definitely gives an advantage and even though I tried not to use it, I still had a lot of it fired my way and if it helped me win, I would use it myself as I didn't want to lose and waste time.



BrianTheBomber #15 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 09:49

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Omega_Weapon #16 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 19:24

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View PostGorod, on Feb 23 2021 - 01:23, said:

 

Untrue and BS. Almost nobody used gold in Team Clash due to results not being added to your record. Everybody played standard ammo. And everybody did just fine, unless you dont know the weak areas you dont need no gold ammo to penetrate a heavy. Medium and light tanks are not made to charge heavies with frontal attacks, TD's have more than enough penetration to pen almost any heavy pretty much anywhere in frontal armor. And when heavies brawling they are close and personal and have no problem with aiming for weak areas from such short distance. 

Team Clash proved gold ammo is not needed at all, even for T10 vs T10. What is going on now in random is madness, Tier 10's gold spamming against Tier 8's with gold rounds exclusively 99% of the times. Just on auto aim clicking in general penning EVERYTHING right in face of thickest armor Tier 8 heavies have, leaving them absolutely no chance to bounce any shots despite doing everything to hide weaker parts. 340mm heat goes right thru defenders turret ffs. VK 168.01 is getting penned right in gun mask like its made of butter even by Tier 8's gold spammers. Its madness.  

 

Your opinion is noted, but my post was not untrue or BS. Team clash was just tier 10 vs tier 10. What are tier 8's supposed to do against tier 10 heavies without using premium? Even in pure tier 10 matches, some tanks are very hard to pen frontally without premium ammo because weak spots are ridiculously tiny (if they exist at all), or the weak spots are being concealed with building corners or rubble piles etc... . People don't want to spend the extra credits for premium ammo in team clash because the stats are not recorded and winning is not really important. Similar to how many people don't use premium ammo in Front Lines. In the regular game, tier 10s shoot plenty of premium ammo because like it or not, it makes winning easier. 






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