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Incoming! Crew 2.0 details is live in the sandbox now.

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Guice72olds #261 Posted Yesterday, 10:14 PM

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Its a nice system, but why don't you get enough points when converting to get the same stats my current crews have? Should also be an easy click to get those same stats, i know with that distribution you most likely wont get any of the new skills or 30 point perks, but for people with 100+ crews that is a huge amount of time to rework them all...

LOD_Eclipso #262 Posted Yesterday, 10:15 PM

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View PostMariner_Six, on Feb 26 2021 - 21:08, said:

So they still exist if they were "special crew", they are now part of your available pool of instructors.  BUT, and I'm not sure I screwed this up or not, but when I did my projetto, I had to pay 200 gold per non-commander girls to repurpose them.  


There were a 4 skill crew trained for the E25, they do not exist anywhere. If I select the E25 and go to the crew layout, I am presented with a list of all crew that are in the "barracks". I see crews for the Grille, IS-3 you name the tank I see them, except the e25 crew. They are gone. I have no option to return them to the tank. I suspect that this is working as intended as a prem tank is used to train crew from other tanks in the same nation/class. Just pointing out that if one had a crew that was trained for a specific prem tank they may just disappear. It is just really weird, that is the only crew that has vanished. I can select any other prem tank and select a crew, just not the one that has a fully trained crew for it.

 


Edited by LOD_Eclipso, Yesterday, 10:17 PM.


bryantighe #263 Posted Yesterday, 10:37 PM

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I went on the sandbox server to test this out. I've been playing casually for 9 years, and I'm not a great player, but this motivated me to check out what the changes are.

 

And I have to say, I love the new changes.

I'm actually shocked that so many people are complaining or asking dumb questions about stuff that is either not true, has been addressed in the intro video, or has been fixed/modified on the sandbox. It's like some of you just can't read or pay attention to a 7 minute video.

 

If you want to complain, then make sure you know what you are complaining about. Go in-depth with the video or blog post, go onto the sandbox and check it out for yourself. It's very obvious on this thread who has seen the changes, described what they saw, and complained about something specific - versus those people that just whine about false non-true random crud.

 

The system is actually fairly simple. Your crew earns points. You then spend those points on upgrades for your crew/tank to make it better. It's not a difficult concept. You don't have to deal with multiple crew members that have different skills. A new player gets to start this right away instead of slogging it in a tank with a crappy crew that leads to a quick death.

 

In my opinion, the concept is more simple than the existing system and easier to understand. Wargaming might be making it a bit harder to understand based on some of the "extras" that come with it. No, it does not require a PhD to understand it as one previous person said. If this is what you think, then you are not paying attention to what the system actually does, and you're just complaining because you're not willing to spend a few minutes to read something.

It's also fair, because your crew will get converted the same way that everyone else's crews will get converted. Your fully upgraded crew with 5 skills will get you the same XP that everyone else gets that has the same amount of crew XP. Your tank won't suck, and it won't be a God either. It will still be good. But now you can put those points to the specific upgrades that you want.

 

For myself, I love my Udes 03, so I went into the sandbox to see what I could do with it. I made my tank have super-stealthy camo, which is crucial for the Udes 03 (it was better than I have in the old system). The driving performance in the new system was also good since I put some points towards some of those driving related skills. Yes, some of my skills/perks were less than what I had before, but the newer stuff made up for it in my opinion (I didn't need the aim time to be be better when I'm going 65 kph, but I made up for it with faster aim time while standing still). I had many more options to customize my tank's performance than in the old system, which I think is a great thing. I did the same with some heavies, and I can customize them to be different than what everyone else has been doing with their skills for the last few years. There are some very good capabilities in there that encourage teamwork and strategy, like the skill that gives you a bonus if you're close to your teammates, or the skills that encourage scouts to upgrade their driving and speed instead of just camping.

 

Are there some things that need to be changed and modified? Sure, you bet. But these things are just a matter of making some tweaks to some of the upgrade values and parameters, and a few other changes to some rules and user interface stuff. I don't like that the instructors provided a random skill upgrade instead of getting to choose it, for example. But this is still the sandbox, and we'll see what happens.

 

So stop yer yellin' and actually pay attention to what you are complaining about. Use your brain before complaining. And to those of you that have actually been on the server to check it out, thank you for being a good and helpful member of society.



Kombi_ #264 Posted Yesterday, 10:53 PM

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View PostShookYang, on Feb 25 2021 - 19:11, said:


This is mostly what I plan to say once we can submit feedback.

 

One other point I plan to add is that, in a 4 crew tank, I can be training 4 different skills at the same time.  Even if I'm only making progress at 1/4 the speed in Crew 2.0, I'm still working on 4 different skills simultaneously, whereas the new system will only allow you to work on 1 skill at a time.  The only way this could be remotely equitable is to give you 4 skill points per level.

IT also seems that you get no points for commanders that have the sixth sense skill already trained. Same points if you convert a new rookie at 100% 

 



GunnHammer #265 Posted Yesterday, 11:02 PM

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So far my biggest complaint is the instructor aspect.  I don't understand why the the special crew members can't have a +1 or +2 to their particular skills instead of assigning instructors with the + skills. 

 

What I've found to be a pain is going though the new 'skill tree', then trying to cross reference the instructors overall focus,(then drilling down to the instructors specific skill focus), with the all the new crews skills. 

 

Then once you assign the instructor to a tank/nation, they are bound to it.  I may want a reduced aim time on my TD as well as brawling medium tank, but if I assign an instructor to give a bonus to that skill, and want it for another tank, I have to create another instructor with the same attributes. 

 

I like the more in depth skill tree, and your right that everyone really trains up the same things for the most part.  So training a crew to take advantage of a particular tanks strengths or to mitigate it's weaknesses becomes a personal choice based on preferred playstyle. 

 

But just drop the whole instructor thing.  Let Chuck be Chuck!  Just give Chuck a bonus to whatever skills he has.  This keeps the special crew member's special, without the complications.  

  



MetalMatrix #266 Posted Today, 12:12 AM

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Okay so after watching the video I was utterly confused oh how this system worked so I decided to go in a check it out. WELL IT SUCKS BIG A**. First off, to get the same skill you have unlocked you are behind he Eight ball as now you need 10 points to max it out and the points you are compensated for does not even get close to all the similar skill you have unlocked. For example: Off-Road Driving, Clutch Breaking and Smooth Ride are a total of 30 points add that if you had recon and deadeye those similar skills are now 50 points  Then add concealment that is for a total of 60 points alone. Well I never get that in exchange and in fact I struggling to ensure I get the same types of skills for a particular tank that I have unlocked.

 

Next it the training crew which at the start did not clearly say if you train this trainer in the skill and nation it can not be changed. So then when you select the crew skill you want the trainer to give you a bonuses you are unware that once you select the skill you can not back out when you find out the 3 specific skills they have does not match what you want, you are screwed since there is no back up button to take you back to select the skill set you want. 

 

Next is the worst just like the BS NEW EQUIPMENT it now cost more to make changes if you find out that it was not what you wanted. The only grace is that you can use credits but those for new players is not easy to come by unless (You guess it Spend More Money) to get those credits. This Nickle and diming the fan base to death is getting worse. Yes I know you need to make money but these BS Micro Transactions are getting pathetic. I have a great IDEA WHY NOT OFFER A MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION instead of these BS Micro Transactions. 

 

Lastly were the hell did you think anyone wanted changes to the crew skill, I been on the forums for years and not once has crew skill ever come up as an important change. OH wait I know someone at HO said. "We need more Micro Transactions as the Fan Base Needs to be sucked Dry. I have a great Idea that will help fix the imbalance issue and get us more Money at the same time. Lets Increase the Crew Skills add numbers to them to show progression towards the max. Then when we give points in exchange for old skill ensure they are less then what the player base has so they can grind more and spend more also. Its a win win for us. 



Winterx #267 Posted Today, 12:36 AM

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View PostShookYang, on Feb 26 2021 - 03:08, said:

They get converted into trainers.

 

However, you have the option to customize the appearance of any commander, including changing their gender for free.

 

Special commanders with voice overs (Chuck Norris, Offspring) are slotted in the Instructors slot and have a separate Personal File.  If you click on that, you can enable their voice over to override the default voice.


Nope. if they are part of a crew they are melted and gone. I doubt it applies to all crew characters. But most were "converted" automatically.... into nothing but numbers.

And why would I want to change some crew's gender if I already had the collector's item crew I did grind for months and years, only to getting those taken from me and me having to customize some random crew again so as to regain them? To obtain what I already had... seems... to put it mildly - ... now where is the vomit-emoji when one needs it? ; )

 


Edited by Winterx, Today, 12:42 AM.


MetalMatrix #268 Posted Today, 12:37 AM

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I would also like to point out you are now nurfing some of the tanks due to the changes to the crew skills. For example the Type 64 with BIA, Recon and Situational awareness gave you a +27 to your view range. Under the New Proposed crew skill he best you can do is before putting in the trainer is +18. This also will effect the combat rations bonus as it dependent on you skill level. You can match when the old system is if all 4 of your trainers have the eyes open.

 

So again this is no longer apples to apples but another attempt by WG to fix a balance issue that they could not due with the tanks.



Otto_Steiner #269 Posted Today, 12:48 AM

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View PostBath_Toast, on Feb 23 2021 - 17:19, said:

So, ive taken a moment to look at this whole crew 2.0 thing on the server and see how crews will convert out. First and foremost: It looks really bad and most of my crews are not getting 1:1 conversions for skills previously had vs skills they have now.

Weird inconsistencies:
For example: My JPZE100 had a 5/6 skill crew, yet only got a 47 point crew in return

Whereas my T95 with its 4 skill crew, got a 56 point crew? How does that work?

is this because my JPZ has a 6 man crew vs my T95's 4 man crew?

My Object 140 with a 3 skill crew gets 33, but my Object 268 v4 with a 2.5 skill crew gets.... 40? What is going on here!?

Net Skill Losses:
This isnt accounting for the fact that my JPZ had:

Deadeye, BIA, Repairs, Controlled Impact, Situational Awareness, Clutch Braking, Fire fighting, etc, etc

multiple upon multiple of skills, and now I am only able to collect 4 perks maxed out, 1 kinda buffed up. So your crew really feels like its getting absolutely shafted, unless somebody didnt tell us that "oh yeah, 5 in concealment in the new system is the same as your crew having full concealment in the old one", but from testing using "Eyes Open" on my EBR 105 that this is generally a nerf. A 14 point eyes open value using 2 instructors with +2 values to boost it up cannot match the View range incurred by having both Recon and Situational awareness on your light tanks. Only Situational awareness. 

Some new skills are nice, but they're a little strange, and mismatched a tad:

 

I dont particularly enjoy situational perk abilities, such as "Close Combat", where the effectiveness of your vehicle changes either slightly, or dramatically, based on certain combat factors. It leaves a feeling of inconsistency, while this is neat to some extent: Situational perks should be relegated to the new "Talent" system

Also, I have no idea why Concealment is placed with perks related to survivability like Quick Repair, Pain Threshold, Firefighting, and Saftey Measures. Especially when "Old Guard" makes more sense in its place. Some personal switches I would make are:

Concealment should be moved to Tactical Training, Quick Reaction should be moved to Operational Training, Old Guard should be moved to Technical Training

Need for Speed should be swapped for Controlled Impact

Concentration should be swapped for Intuition (now that intuition isnt useless)

The Instructor system is terrible:

 

The new instructor system which is intended to compensate for specialty crew members (E.g. Christmas Maidens and Chuck Norris) is..... extremely bad. The fact you CANNOT directly pick the skills you want the instructor to boost is awful, its outright terrible, you need to roll 3 random bonuses, then pick from them. This is awful, this is one more element of RNG to the game and can be an absolute resource sink that has no right being in the place of the old crew system. 

Not to mention: Crew instructor bonuses do not count towards talents 

This means if you put 26 points into tactical training, then use Crew Instructors to reach 30 to unlock Fighting Spirit or Team Spirit it WILL NOT work. They do not count towards it at all, and it means you have to invest the points into tactical training first. This means you cant use Crew Instructors to "Push you over the edge" to unlock Talents when you're close but not quite there, considering from what ive seen for crew training using Free XP in my testing: Gaining levels gets really slow the higher you go just like always. So that little boost could have been very helpful in unlocking Talents for people who havent reached it yet in exchange for occupying a slot.

 

 

 

If you're looking for the list of positives and negatives here you go:



Some positives, because there are a few honestly:
 

So a few things I like: 
 

  1.  Sixth Sense is now stock for all crews, and they're all technically at "100%" too, this is great. This should have been a change made EYONS ago. The 50/75/100 crew training system was archaic and evil as hell, and made it nearly impossible for new players to get into the game, I've tried to bring 3 people in and the <100% crews without SS just put them at such a brutal disadvantage it made them feel like they couldnt progress, and gave up.
  2. The ability to use 3 different tanks, and unlocking them as you use the crew. I like this, plus I dont mind the gold acceleration for it. Its fine, if you want to pay to advance it a little then go hog wild. This system is f***in amazing and is something that NEEDS to be kept should WG, under by some miracle of the stars, address the janked up crew compensation. 
  3.  Squashing things down to a single commander, its actually really handy. No longer needing to manage crews or swap them around between premium tanks painstakingly will be much nicer
  4. For 1/2 skill crews, the conversion is relatively favorable to Crew 2.0
  5. The ability to take some abilities that were previously only usable at 100% at lower effectiveness to gain some benefit is actually quite nice.
  6. Actual explanations and hard concrete values for how skills work now rather than taking an educated guess

 

I like these elements of crew 2.0 alot, but there's just the negatives that prevent it from being a good update

A synopsis of everything that needs to be dealt with to make this update better
 

  1. Compensation needs to be more consistent, a 4 skill crew shouldnt be rewarded with a higher point value than a 5/6 skill crew, especially if the latter is special characters like christmas maidens/crew
  2. Compensation needs to be better as a whole, anything at or close to 4/5 skills shouldnt be seeing 40-50 point crews, they should be 60+
  3. The instructor system needs a massive rework
    1. Special instructors like Chuck Norris, The Christmas Maidens, etc should provide a substantially higher bonus than +2/+1 or +2/+10% XP, They feel neutered in their current state
    2. Instructor bonuses should NOT BE RANDOM and you should be able to pick from your benefits so you're able to properly specialize a build. 
    3. Obtaining Crew Instructors should be more clear, I havent particularly found any way to get more of them besides the initial conversion for unique members
  4. Barracks should be compensated better, they should be converted into dormitories or garage slots as compensation on TOP of the retraining orders. Thats real money people spent on this.
  5. The point allocation system is cumbersome and overwhelming. 
    1. This will be far more difficult for folks who are older that play the game and newer players
  6. The point system is a direct nerf over the old system
    1. BIA appears to be gone or wherever it went is completely obscure to the point of being too hard to find
      1. If it is gone, then Zero Skill crews that were advertised to having BIA or SIS that people payed money for for tanks like the Berlin Trio or 131 are now worthless fundamentally
      2. Its also a gargantuan nerf outright to crews and thats awful 
    2. You can train fewer perks to maximum under the new system, taking only 7 full perks and 1 at half strength
      1. This fundamentally screws over the guys who invested a LOT of time and money into getting these perks and skills in mass quantity
      2. This really is a byproduct of the perks costing too much, the skill point cap should be doubled from 75 to 150 and adjusted accordingly for XP, which would make it possible to actually collect all 5 talents. A favorable resolution for those who have 7 or 8 skill crews
  7. The talent system is gated behind too many skill points with 75 only being able to be allocated
    1. You typically have to take points in something you DONT want in order to get it, wasting skill points that would be useful elsewhere
    2. Requirement should be lowered from 30 to 20, Have Instructors count towards the 30 point requirement, or Max Skill points should be doubled from 75 to 150
  8. It should not cost ANYTHING to train your crew for a new vehicle for the first time.
    1. ​First time crew training should be free no matter what, you should not punish the player for advancing their crew or unlocking a slot with 1500 gold just to pay another 750 to prevent skill point loss
    2. Retraining should come at a cost however, similar to the system currently in place on the sandbox serves

 

Conclusion:

Crew 2.0 is just.... a really painful example of 3 steps forward, 19,276 steps back. 

People have been clamoring for new skills, people have been clamoring for ridding of the painful 50/75/100 crew system, people have wanted zero skill SS for years. 

And they give it to us, but with so much bogging it down. Like the Premium shell changes they locked behind the HE shell changes that nobody asked for. Wargaming is at it again thinking with their head up their rear and despite conversions being quite nice for low skill count crews: the AWFUL compensation for >3 skill crews and the sheer losses you sustain from it all are terrible and inconsistent. Wargaming can fix most of these problems by increasing the skill cap from 75 to 150, then fixing the conversion mechanic to behave in line with what one might expect. These two changes alone would primarily fix key points 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7.

Instructors need to be completely reworked, if not thrown out, specialty crew members like female crew, chuck norris, etc should be instead converted to recruitable commanders that have an already super high points value that doesnt need training. 

Finally, the first time training for any vehicle after your first one should be free, the rest you can charge someone for if they change their mind. Dont care, but that FIRST time should be free. No questions asked

 

This guy said it all !

 



antares7751 #270 Posted Today, 01:24 AM

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This sounds way too confusing, and you are screwing over the players who have invested many hours building up their crews.

Colonel_Klink #271 Posted Today, 02:44 AM

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Crew 2.0 means goodbye from me. This is your Star wars Galaxies Jedi update disaster moment WG, you might want to read about that and rethink.

Edited by Colonel_Klink, Today, 03:19 AM.


Otto_Steiner #272 Posted Today, 02:52 AM

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Just went on the sandbox to test this for real...

 

 

... ho boy... this is going to be a real pain :

 

PLAYABILITY

 

- too many pop up while playing, you get filled with too many messages telling you which skill is being used

- not much of a difference once you can setup your crew like you want

 

SETUP

 

- with more than 150+ tanks... I guess it will take me foerever to setup my crews... this is insane

- instructors : 4 slots for +8... you will wuickly run out of them... so they will sell us them later on... looks like "milking the cow approach"

 

 

Bottom line, way too many changes to not change the fondamentals...

 

They could have only remove the useless skills and introduce new ones and that would have done the job

 

Instead of all this...

 



Colonel_Klink #273 Posted Today, 03:15 AM

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View PostIronPanterloons, on Feb 24 2021 - 00:24, said:

I knew I should have pursued some sort of degree in mathematics and statistics. I got into this game as a way to blow off steam and enjoy some military hardware. Now it's becoming more tedious, time consuming, and aggravating than the job I slog to work to every day. What's the point?

 

Wouldn't have helped. I did pursue degrees in physics and maths and am finding the crew 2.0 notes are too complex for me lol



CZARBUCKZ #274 Posted Today, 03:35 AM

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Who had the great Idea to get rid of the Rank, Insignia and Uniforms of my crews in a friggin' military tank game? Instead of lookin' at my sweet Ranked and Uniformed crews (That I worked on and personalized, earned or paid for) I get to see one person in plain jacket with ghostly generic losers in the background and three little people that aren't even in my tank? wth?

 

The icing on the cake is that even after you max everything out you still can't retain the capability that the tank had under the old system, crews are not as good and they can never get as good as they were.

 

the best part is that I just spent 2 hours screwing with crews so I could play 2 matches and find out my view range, load time and repair speed have all been nerfed, and the cool down on consumables is longer now, so GG.

 

The NA server is gonna have some really light traffic if they push this through...



darthcmo #275 Posted Today, 06:13 AM

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I've played for a few years and decided to check out these changes since they are very drastic.
1. Sandbox server is unplayable for NA due to latency, those of us in southwest US its like 400+ms

2. The changes look interesting and fun and I think they bring new life to the crews and I could see myself enjoying the grind on them

3. Skilled crews seem to get more of a nerf in this new system so you may want to address that

4. I liked the skillpoint system and the instructor system

5. Being able to use the crew on premiums and one other, then having to buy into more is a great idea I like that too

 

At first I was like "HELL NO" but after looking and playing with the changes they provide the ability to customize how I want to play a tank which I like. 

 


Edited by darthcmo, Today, 06:18 AM.






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