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Incoming! Crew 2.0 details is live in the sandbox now.

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Oxy_Clean #21 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 22:48

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These changes are too much too late.  And sandbox my [edited], everything you put in sandbox becomes part of the game two weeks later.

Edited by Oxy_Clean, Feb 23 2021 - 22:49.


28beers #22 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 23:18

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View Postcorrado14, on Feb 23 2021 - 12:55, said:

Ty WG for screwing players over who have multiple crews with 6+ skills, the compensation is negligible. If this gets implemented you can say good bye to a large portion of your dedicated paying player base.

I agree.  So much for spending credits and buying crew books or converting free xp to train your crews.  Waste of over 10 years playing to get the crews dicked.  Now everyone will get all the perks for not grinding.  I tried out the sandbox and it [edited].  Going to take me over a week to do reconfigure my crews.  eat a [edited]crew 2.0.

 



Bath_Toast #23 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 23:19

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So, ive taken a moment to look at this whole crew 2.0 thing on the server and see how crews will convert out. First and foremost: It looks really bad and most of my crews are not getting 1:1 conversions for skills previously had vs skills they have now.

Weird inconsistencies:
For example: My JPZE100 had a 5/6 skill crew, yet only got a 47 point crew in return

Whereas my T95 with its 4 skill crew, got a 56 point crew? How does that work?

is this because my JPZ has a 6 man crew vs my T95's 4 man crew?

My Object 140 with a 3 skill crew gets 33, but my Object 268 v4 with a 2.5 skill crew gets.... 40? What is going on here!?

Net Skill Losses:
This isnt accounting for the fact that my JPZ had:

Deadeye, BIA, Repairs, Controlled Impact, Situational Awareness, Clutch Braking, Fire fighting, etc, etc

multiple upon multiple of skills, and now I am only able to collect 4 perks maxed out, 1 kinda buffed up. So your crew really feels like its getting absolutely shafted, unless somebody didnt tell us that "oh yeah, 5 in concealment in the new system is the same as your crew having full concealment in the old one", but from testing using "Eyes Open" on my EBR 105 that this is generally a nerf. A 14 point eyes open value using 2 instructors with +2 values to boost it up cannot match the View range incurred by having both Recon and Situational awareness on your light tanks. Only Situational awareness. 

Some new skills are nice, but they're a little strange, and mismatched a tad:

 

I dont particularly enjoy situational perk abilities, such as "Close Combat", where the effectiveness of your vehicle changes either slightly, or dramatically, based on certain combat factors. It leaves a feeling of inconsistency, while this is neat to some extent: Situational perks should be relegated to the new "Talent" system

Also, I have no idea why Concealment is placed with perks related to survivability like Quick Repair, Pain Threshold, Firefighting, and Saftey Measures. Especially when "Old Guard" makes more sense in its place. Some personal switches I would make are:

Concealment should be moved to Tactical Training, Quick Reaction should be moved to Operational Training, Old Guard should be moved to Technical Training

Need for Speed should be swapped for Controlled Impact

Concentration should be swapped for Intuition (now that intuition isnt useless)

The Instructor system is terrible:

 

The new instructor system which is intended to compensate for specialty crew members (E.g. Christmas Maidens and Chuck Norris) is..... extremely bad. The fact you CANNOT directly pick the skills you want the instructor to boost is awful, its outright terrible, you need to roll 3 random bonuses, then pick from them. This is awful, this is one more element of RNG to the game and can be an absolute resource sink that has no right being in the place of the old crew system. 

Not to mention: Crew instructor bonuses do not count towards talents 

This means if you put 26 points into tactical training, then use Crew Instructors to reach 30 to unlock Fighting Spirit or Team Spirit it WILL NOT work. They do not count towards it at all, and it means you have to invest the points into tactical training first. This means you cant use Crew Instructors to "Push you over the edge" to unlock Talents when you're close but not quite there, considering from what ive seen for crew training using Free XP in my testing: Gaining levels gets really slow the higher you go just like always. So that little boost could have been very helpful in unlocking Talents for people who havent reached it yet in exchange for occupying a slot.

 

 

 

If you're looking for the list of positives and negatives here you go:



Some positives, because there are a few honestly:
 

So a few things I like: 
 

  1.  Sixth Sense is now stock for all crews, and they're all technically at "100%" too, this is great. This should have been a change made EYONS ago. The 50/75/100 crew training system was archaic and evil as hell, and made it nearly impossible for new players to get into the game, I've tried to bring 3 people in and the <100% crews without SS just put them at such a brutal disadvantage it made them feel like they couldnt progress, and gave up.
  2. The ability to use 3 different tanks, and unlocking them as you use the crew. I like this, plus I dont mind the gold acceleration for it. Its fine, if you want to pay to advance it a little then go hog wild. This system is f***in amazing and is something that NEEDS to be kept should WG, under by some miracle of the stars, address the janked up crew compensation. 
  3.  Squashing things down to a single commander, its actually really handy. No longer needing to manage crews or swap them around between premium tanks painstakingly will be much nicer
  4. For 1/2 skill crews, the conversion is relatively favorable to Crew 2.0
  5. The ability to take some abilities that were previously only usable at 100% at lower effectiveness to gain some benefit is actually quite nice.
  6. Actual explanations and hard concrete values for how skills work now rather than taking an educated guess

 

I like these elements of crew 2.0 alot, but there's just the negatives that prevent it from being a good update

A synopsis of everything that needs to be dealt with to make this update better
 

  1. Compensation needs to be more consistent, a 4 skill crew shouldnt be rewarded with a higher point value than a 5/6 skill crew, especially if the latter is special characters like christmas maidens/crew
  2. Compensation needs to be better as a whole, anything at or close to 4/5 skills shouldnt be seeing 40-50 point crews, they should be 60+
  3. The instructor system needs a massive rework
    1. Special instructors like Chuck Norris, The Christmas Maidens, etc should provide a substantially higher bonus than +2/+1 or +2/+10% XP, They feel neutered in their current state
    2. Instructor bonuses should NOT BE RANDOM and you should be able to pick from your benefits so you're able to properly specialize a build. 
    3. Obtaining Crew Instructors should be more clear, I havent particularly found any way to get more of them besides the initial conversion for unique members
  4. Barracks should be compensated better, they should be converted into dormitories or garage slots as compensation on TOP of the retraining orders. Thats real money people spent on this.
  5. The point allocation system is cumbersome and overwhelming. 
    1. This will be far more difficult for folks who are older that play the game and newer players
  6. The point system is a direct nerf over the old system
    1. BIA appears to be gone or wherever it went is completely obscure to the point of being too hard to find
      1. If it is gone, then Zero Skill crews that were advertised to having BIA or SIS that people payed money for for tanks like the Berlin Trio or 131 are now worthless fundamentally
      2. Its also a gargantuan nerf outright to crews and thats awful 
    2. You can train fewer perks to maximum under the new system, taking only 7 full perks and 1 at half strength
      1. This fundamentally screws over the guys who invested a LOT of time and money into getting these perks and skills in mass quantity
      2. This really is a byproduct of the perks costing too much, the skill point cap should be doubled from 75 to 150 and adjusted accordingly for XP, which would make it possible to actually collect all 5 talents. A favorable resolution for those who have 7 or 8 skill crews
  7. The talent system is gated behind too many skill points with 75 only being able to be allocated
    1. You typically have to take points in something you DONT want in order to get it, wasting skill points that would be useful elsewhere
    2. Requirement should be lowered from 30 to 20, Have Instructors count towards the 30 point requirement, or Max Skill points should be doubled from 75 to 150
  8. It should not cost ANYTHING to train your crew for a new vehicle for the first time.
    1. ​First time crew training should be free no matter what, you should not punish the player for advancing their crew or unlocking a slot with 1500 gold just to pay another 750 to prevent skill point loss
    2. Retraining should come at a cost however, similar to the system currently in place on the sandbox serves

 

Conclusion:

Crew 2.0 is just.... a really painful example of 3 steps forward, 19,276 steps back. 

People have been clamoring for new skills, people have been clamoring for ridding of the painful 50/75/100 crew system, people have wanted zero skill SS for years. 

And they give it to us, but with so much bogging it down. Like the Premium shell changes they locked behind the HE shell changes that nobody asked for. Wargaming is at it again thinking with their head up their rear and despite conversions being quite nice for low skill count crews: the AWFUL compensation for >3 skill crews and the sheer losses you sustain from it all are terrible and inconsistent. Wargaming can fix most of these problems by increasing the skill cap from 75 to 150, then fixing the conversion mechanic to behave in line with what one might expect. These two changes alone would primarily fix key points 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7.

Instructors need to be completely reworked, if not thrown out, specialty crew members like female crew, chuck norris, etc should be instead converted to recruitable commanders that have an already super high points value that doesnt need training. 

Finally, the first time training for any vehicle after your first one should be free, the rest you can charge someone for if they change their mind. Dont care, but that FIRST time should be free. No questions asked



Essi_Miyamizumi #24 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 23:21

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I have an idea, and this idea will be very simple, compared to the crap I've seen on this Crew2.0 video, hear me out.

The problem with crews right now is that yes, as the video points out, the skills are pretty much trained straight forward.

What if, you just redesign only the skills, and balance them (or break them like you guys always do(see the video))

Alright, so we taken the problem and fixed it, now how do we retain the crews that people worked so hard to get those 7 crew skills in the T67?

Just reset the skills, retain the crew XP, and then they can get the new skills, which more than likely will still have some meta anyways.

 



sharkmc #25 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 23:23

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so my problems so far, one commander cand drive up to 3 tanks, for example now i have isu-152, isu 152k and su130, the 3 of them with 3.5 skills,

now if i convert lets say the isu-152, i get something in the 30 range, and that commander i use for the other 2 tanks, why cand i convert the rest of crew from the 2 tanks on crew experience or books to fully develop my commander.

from what i saw on the sand box the remaining unsed crew is gona be converted at the end of the year or at future is this gona be implemented,

and for instructors how they chose what skill they want to improve?

did we need this? so far im seeing is to complex for a new player, to much explaination

so far im sorry for my crew in the obj704 those guys drive up from the at-1, someone joined along the line but at the moment is on the same pace with the rest of crew, thanks to the doubke xp to least skilled crew.

this is not an rpg,



Buff_Garfield #26 Posted Feb 23 2021 - 23:38

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The changes feel awkward. I don't understand how this benefits new players in any way shape or form, not that there are any new players coming in anyways. Like before they only had to deal with a set of parameters for good crews. Like the best possible crew you could get was not massively better than lets say a simple 2 skill crew that BIA, Sixth Sense, Safe Stowage, etc. Most of the skills tacked onto those crews once you unlocked the aforementioned skills were just pork. My point here is that you could only push the combat effectiveness of your crew to a certain extent. Now you can actually push your crew to the point where you can be massively better than someone with a less skilled crew. It just doesn't make sense. It furthers the gap between the "haves" (Unicums and Blueberries) and the "have nots" (basically everyone else).

 

Also, why is the instructor system RNG based? Who actually greenlit that idea? The one thing we need less in this game is RNG. It feels like people who get lucky with there rolls will be able to make insanely overpowered builds like an invisible EBR or EVEN 90, or maybe a crazy strong brawling 279 or Chieftain or whatever tank you want to turn into a monster, but only if you get lucky enough with your instructors that is.

 

I really am enjoying the fact that now I have to look into every single vehicle I've ever owned and have to redo every single one of their crews. I'm even further enjoying the thought process that is going to come with planning out how I can get as many commanders as possible by looking into the smallest vehicles of each nation. I've got a great T49 crew so what am I going to do with them? Well I'm going to split them up and put them each into a T1 Cunningham. Why? Because if my crews are the same amount of xp as each other, then it would be beneficial to me to try to setup 2 crews that will be converted into 2 commanders. They will have the exact xp as if I retrained them in the T49, but it's even better because now I have 2 commanders with 2 free slots per commander, since each commander can be trained to up to 3 vehicles of that Nation and of that Vehicle type that you train them to. 

 

I just don't understand why you couldn't just drop sixth sense as a perk, add it in as a permanent feature on every tank, and adjust the crew skills we currently have in the game. Whether that involves removing skills, reworking skills, adding new skills, or whatever, just let us keep our crews the way they are. There is nothing wrong with the current system. It just needs tweaking and reworking. 



DrWho_ #27 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 00:52

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View PostBuff_Garfield, on Feb 23 2021 - 23:38, said:

 

Also, why is the instructor system RNG based? Who actually greenlit that idea? The one thing we need less in this game is RNG. It feels like people who get lucky with there rolls will be able to make insanely overpowered builds like an invisible EBR or EVEN 90, or maybe a crazy strong brawling 279 or Chieftain or whatever tank you want to turn into a monster, but only if you get lucky enough with your instructors that is.

 

 

Yeah that "roll the dice" thing on the instructor ...... most of the other stuff I can sort of wrap my head around and see the logic behind it or how this could work for a special build like EQ20 and all that sort of stuff but why on earth would anyone want a randomised instructor. My zero skill BiA crews will be in that category I guess and BiA was not a random skill and the benfit of it being zero skill wasn't random either but now the benefits from that same crew will be random ..... 

 

It may not make it to the final version but if it does I shall be quite upset



Illustratum_AEternam #28 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 00:54

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All in one sentence: more pay to win

"

15. Has anything changed in battle?

According to our calculations, the influence of a new crew on the gameplay will increase 1.5 times compared to the old crew. Additionally, a number of situational skills and talents will also be added. When triggered, they will be displayed in battle with special indicators.

"



ImaH8R #29 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 00:55

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THIS change is just BS, 8yrs of playing this and this could be the change to make me leave.

Wolfenslaggen #30 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 01:04

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1) What is the point of the reward crews, CC crews, Chuck etc if they are going to be nothing more that bonus stat sticks? All the effort in voice overs and art for that??

 

2) Perk system conversation seems to be utterly maxed for some of my 4-5+ skill crews who still have further to go in the current system. It gives me *really* doubtful feelings to see that.

 

3) Once again WGing is trying to reinvent the wheel in the most over complex and bound to be broken way possible. Remember the HP and shell damage rework that got shelved just recently? Yeah this needs to join it.

 

4) Crew skins, names, styles become pointless. Having fun with crew customization themes becomes pointless. This is a REDUCTION in options.

 

Wargaming...FFS...stop looking to parts of the game that are not broken and focus on the areas players are consistently pointing out!



rmac03053 #31 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 01:13

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I've got 10 years in this game with 27 Tier X tanks, 87 Premium tanks, 246 tanks in total. This Crew 2.0 changes makes my account unmanageable.

All I can say is WoWs went through many changes in a short period of time.  Between Beta and the final version I'm played, I gave up.  Every three months I had to invest a ton of time to relearn the game.  I walked.  It just wasn't worth the time.

Now Crew 2.0 smells much like that same.  It won't be an easy conversion.  My guess there are no tools to get your crews done in an equitable level they where before this abortion of a change.  TBH, I don't see myself investing much time, if any, to learn this new system.

I see this as nothing more than a move to push long term players,  such as myself, out of the game.


bashfulsalamander #32 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 01:14

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Yeah a certain streamer today showed just how wonderful this update will be. Can't wait for new players to experience arty at tier Vl with like 15 sec reloads and any tank that was considered OP in one aspect or another becoming even more efficient at its strengths. Looks like wargaming will survive 2020, but not 2021. Also kind of funny how putting a cap on crew skills creates diversity in gameplay. Guess tanks themselves with their own stats could not do that enough. Does the marketing department in wargaming not know that console is not doing well after their last big update? Why would a company ever push in the direction of failure after it has been at least staying steadily afloat? 

HejHejMonika #33 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 01:18

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I can live with the changes, except for two things.

 

1) 500k credits to train a crew is absolutely absurd. It's going to cripple F2P players like me. That's freaking 5 mil to grind an entire line.

 

2) As mentioned before, the Instructor 'RNG' is ridiculous. It's absolute BS, just allow us to pick what we want. 

 

Other than that I'm okay with the changes. I can adapt. Some of the perks need tweaking though for sure.


Edited by NateRocko, Feb 24 2021 - 01:18.


Metuas #34 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 01:19

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Why don't you focus on fixing the ridiculous, screwed up match making instead of screwing people who've been playing the game for 5+ years?

 

You idiots are screwing over your base...



IronPanterloons #35 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 01:24

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I knew I should have pursued some sort of degree in mathematics and statistics. I got into this game as a way to blow off steam and enjoy some military hardware. Now it's becoming more tedious, time consuming, and aggravating than the job I slog to work to every day. What's the point?

Gen_Grant #36 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 01:32

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OK as a Beta Tester I have been in the sandbox a few times and I would like to keep this very positive and give you good information. As I have played 50 000 games and always tried every special and Mode in the game. I have lived through updated and Physics and even a massive rebuff of equipment. Having just spent 2 hours on the Sandbox server my first opinion of these changes are NOT GOOD. You have managed to take a well oiled machine and and thrown 2 tons of sand into it. I have watched the videos and played around in the server with some of my favorite tanks. This is NOT a good Move, it reminds me of the early days of WoWP before the nail in the casket was driven in to the level of hate of that game makes me taste the old lunch as it wells up inside. I have very little feedback of any good nature to give, You have stripped out my favorite tanks of their super crews and many I had been working on getting just right and pillaged the one part that was personal. My Crews. 

I will try it many times more to get a feel for some of the changes but if WG puts this into the game this almost 11 years of game play my just be looking to move on. Please do not bring in these changes and you may need to fire the developer crew for a full out bad plan. This is just my first of many posts to WG. Sorry but this change was a failing Grade.

Sincerely Gen_Grant



KiltedAmerican #37 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 01:38

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I don't want anything to do with it

tod914 #38 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 02:01

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RNG based Instructors?  Can I make a saving throw first?  Or will that cost me a bucket load of credits, xp or gold?  Get rid of that garbage and allow the player to select what they want.  Also, make the skill/perk conversion be equal in the 2.0 system.  Not boning people on xp.  Don't like the idea that your restricted in skill selections if you want to use Talent.

 

People have already put a lot of time, money and effort into their crews.  The transition to 2.0 shouldn't cost them any more xp, gold etc. than they have already put into it.  Hence zero perk/skill crew members should have that xp accounted for.


Edited by tod914, Feb 24 2021 - 02:06.


SiberianKhatru #39 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 02:05

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Honestly, I enjoy the current crew management system just fine.  In my opinion, crew management, as currently exists, is one of the better aspects of the game mechanic.  Couple of personal thoughts: 1) If a gameplay system isn't broken, why fix it? and 2) Too much change, strictly for the sake of change, generally does not improve the game, and tends to lesson my opinion of the game over time (see equipment 2.0).  After having read the proposed crew management system, Crew 2.0 just doesn't seem to be a necessary change in the better direction.  Unless of course, I am missing something.

Edited by SiberianKhatru, Feb 24 2021 - 02:10.


jester116th #40 Posted Feb 24 2021 - 02:06

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Feb 23 2021 - 10:55, said:

Howdy Boom Jockeys!

 

The test runs from now until 28Feb21

 

To join the test click HEREto download the client.

Install the Sandbox client by launching the downloaded file. If you're running the Game Center for the first time, you'll have to authorize and restart the downloaded installation file.
Wait until the Sandbox client is downloaded and installed.
Open the World of Tanks tab, select World of Tanks Sandbox, and click Play.

 

THIS IS JUST A TEST

 

No need to go Bananas nothing is final so please be sure to leave your feedback/ bugs on the proper thread.

 

More information on other goodies and stuff you can get for helping out can be found in this Article.

 

If you leave feedback (good or bad) you will get entered to win one of Ten Ratpack 2D styles head to this forum and leave your constructive criticism there.

What are the hours for the sandbox server?







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