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Incoming! Crew 2.0 details is live in the sandbox now.

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Cloud_1 #281 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 18:30

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View Postbryantighe, on Feb 26 2021 - 16:37, said:

I went on the sandbox server to test this out. I've been playing casually for 9 years, and I'm not a great player, but this motivated me to check out what the changes are.

 

And I have to say, I love the new changes.

I'm actually shocked that so many people are complaining or asking dumb questions about stuff that is either not true, has been addressed in the intro video, or has been fixed/modified on the sandbox. It's like some of you just can't read or pay attention to a 7 minute video.

 

If you want to complain, then make sure you know what you are complaining about. Go in-depth with the video or blog post, go onto the sandbox and check it out for yourself. It's very obvious on this thread who has seen the changes, described what they saw, and complained about something specific - versus those people that just whine about false non-true random crud.

 

The system is actually fairly simple. Your crew earns points. You then spend those points on upgrades for your crew/tank to make it better. It's not a difficult concept. You don't have to deal with multiple crew members that have different skills. A new player gets to start this right away instead of slogging it in a tank with a crappy crew that leads to a quick death.

 

In my opinion, the concept is more simple than the existing system and easier to understand. Wargaming might be making it a bit harder to understand based on some of the "extras" that come with it. No, it does not require a PhD to understand it as one previous person said. If this is what you think, then you are not paying attention to what the system actually does, and you're just complaining because you're not willing to spend a few minutes to read something.

It's also fair, because your crew will get converted the same way that everyone else's crews will get converted. Your fully upgraded crew with 5 skills will get you the same XP that everyone else gets that has the same amount of crew XP. Your tank won't suck, and it won't be a God either. It will still be good. But now you can put those points to the specific upgrades that you want.

 

For myself, I love my Udes 03, so I went into the sandbox to see what I could do with it. I made my tank have super-stealthy camo, which is crucial for the Udes 03 (it was better than I have in the old system). The driving performance in the new system was also good since I put some points towards some of those driving related skills. Yes, some of my skills/perks were less than what I had before, but the newer stuff made up for it in my opinion (I didn't need the aim time to be be better when I'm going 65 kph, but I made up for it with faster aim time while standing still). I had many more options to customize my tank's performance than in the old system, which I think is a great thing. I did the same with some heavies, and I can customize them to be different than what everyone else has been doing with their skills for the last few years. There are some very good capabilities in there that encourage teamwork and strategy, like the skill that gives you a bonus if you're close to your teammates, or the skills that encourage scouts to upgrade their driving and speed instead of just camping.

 

Are there some things that need to be changed and modified? Sure, you bet. But these things are just a matter of making some tweaks to some of the upgrade values and parameters, and a few other changes to some rules and user interface stuff. I don't like that the instructors provided a random skill upgrade instead of getting to choose it, for example. But this is still the sandbox, and we'll see what happens.

 

So stop yer yellin' and actually pay attention to what you are complaining about. Use your brain before complaining. And to those of you that have actually been on the server to check it out, thank you for being a good and helpful member of society.

So how much is WGNA paying you to say this? I mean come on when does anything WG do benefit the player base? 



Bob_Pro_Soup_Distributer #282 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 18:52

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I would prefer just adding more crew skills to the current crews that are unique for each vehicle type. Example: for heavy tanks resistance to stun that would help reduce stun time, for light tanks maybe a crew skill that increases the light tanks maneuverability for a few seconds if it proxy spots another tank (to help it escape faster). This new system is overly complicated in my opinion and i prefer the current crew system better but would like some new crew skills to be added.

RJPVIP #283 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 20:24

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View PostBob_Pro_Soup_Distributer, on Feb 27 2021 - 18:52, said:

I would prefer just adding more crew skills to the current crews that are unique for each vehicle type. Example: for heavy tanks resistance to stun that would help reduce stun time, for light tanks maybe a crew skill that increases the light tanks maneuverability for a few seconds if it proxy spots another tank (to help it escape faster). This new system is overly complicated in my opinion and i prefer the current crew system better but would like some new crew skills to be added.


These are pretty good ideas.



fartbucket3000 #284 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 20:26

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You say you want feedback, that is a lie. If you valued feedback you would have listened to player's legitimate gripes over the last 5+ years, but you don't, you ignore them and implement weird changes nobody asked for. I am confused as to how this fits in with your current plan of squeezing every red cent out of your cash cow before ol' bessie goes tits up. Do you have a division of vodka soaked spider monkeys to come up with these hairbrained schemes?

SaxNViolnz #285 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 21:42

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Wow...just finished ONE...ONE tank. Including agonizing over Instructor placement, total elapsed time around 3 hours! 

 

Not understanding the real affect of the new skills on my tank meant I had to make guesses and assumptions. Was it better to spread it around and be well rounded, or should I ensure I had critical skills maxed out from the start? Select all suitable skills helped a bit, but I can tell right away, that for a new player, this will be very daunting.

 

** There is an MMO called RIFT where the players are given the choice to have the game automatically manage skill point placement, based on the character class, and sub class if the player doesn't want to have to spend the time worrying about it. The system highlights where the new points will go, and the player confirms the placement. If the player doesn't agree with the system suggestion, they are free to spend unused skill points as they see fit. Once placed, and finalized, the points are spent. The Automatic Skill Point Placement can be toggled on or off. Since you have already gone to the trouble of helping players choose suitable skills with the Select Suitable Skills box , it would be a small addition to also place the skills pts, and have the player agree or not agree to their placement. **

 



GunnHammer #286 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 23:32

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So, I don't have many tanks, and while I was trying to set them up, I ran out of Instructors.  So I have a level 67 Skorp that can have 4 instructors, but no instructors left.  So I have to remove from other tanks and spend gold to reassign?  

 

Which means if I get a new tank, I have to spend gold to reassign instructor's to the new tank? Which leaves my tank I took them from weaker.  Or is the plan to sell me more instructors? 

 

So you can spend money to bump up your crews and have a whole new way to spend money to add/bump up instructors? 

 

 And I'll add in that the random assignment of skills when setting up an instructor also sucks, why can't I have them with the exact skill set I want? What's the point of giving us all the choices, but then making part of it random?

 

And another thing, having the crew skills set up to where you have to pick a line of skills also sucks.  I may have only one I want in one section, which means I'll never get the bonus perk unless I spend valuable points on skills I don't even want!?  This whole effort was around diversity and choice- yet you are pushing things in one way or another in many ways. 

 

Drop the whole instructor thing-period.  Have special crew member's get a bonus to their skills and be done with it.

 

Let the players assign whatever skills they want to their crews.  



Killer_Biker_71 #287 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 02:40

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You're going to lose a lot of players and our player base is already shrinking.  I can't imagine why you're doing this. I't like you want to kill the game, that's the only reason I can see for this.  You're NOT going to attract new players, new players don't know anything about crew skills anyway.
24 years as a professional mechanic and if there's one thing I've learned it's, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!!

Edited by Killer_Biker_71, Feb 28 2021 - 02:40.


Rolledback #288 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 03:07

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I think Bath_Toast's postdoes a great job of going over the issues. Why can't the changes just be:

  • Make 6th sense standard for all
  • Either remove and replace pointless skills or just add new skills
  • Reset all crew skills so people can re-choose from new options
  • Merge crewmembers into a singular "crew" entity that can train for multiple tanks and will be easier to manage

I think doing those 4 things would make many people happy.

 

Biggest feedback for the changes on the server though: get rid of the RNG with instructor bonuses!

 

I've played on and off since 2010, and this past xmas events have given me a renewed interest in the game. I have plans to purchase premium time when next battle pass season starts. But these changes as is would definitely turn me off from spending money.


Edited by Rolledback, Feb 28 2021 - 03:09.


US5910 #289 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 04:35

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View PostCloset_Tanker, on Feb 26 2021 - 22:10, said:

... I have spent well above $10,000.00 here in the last year.

US$10,000? What can you buy to rack up that total? 100 years of premium time?


Edited by US5910, Feb 28 2021 - 05:12.


Xevo #290 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 04:46

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I'd like to see my current crew skills reflected in the Crew Directives list so if it's possible to get +2 to a skill that's already 10 I'd want to do that. But even seeing 0/10 on all of them or whatever number if I have more than that would be helpful.

Tanxmann #291 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 04:54

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Don't even need this insider information, to tell that Wargaming gives zero crap about the average player anymore - or really any player for that matter, unless of course a major credit card is provided.

 

" The source itself reports, the quote: “I do not know what ***** came up with this, but as the players correctly point out, this is an attempt to remake something that is still working quite OK, and as a result, the players will suffer as always. Well, it's also an attempt to push new things to suck money / time out of players and impose a worthless new interface. And they (developed - approx.) Face a lot of problems due to the new crew, which interacts just with everything in the game. So at the exit, wait again for a sea of ​​bugs, and yes, everything has already been decided there, Crew 2.0, regardless of the opinions of the players, will go to the release. "

 



US5910 #292 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 05:41

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What I like about the proposed change:

  • Crews can be trained for multiple tanks at the same time - This is fantastic. Do this if nothing else.
  • Effects of skills/talents/instructors show up clearly in percentage improvements - Much better than researching on the web for how much existing skills/perks actually help.

 

Suggested changes

  • Don't lock talents to training courses - Unlock any talent after spending 30 points instead of requiring all of them to be in the same training course (from Mariner_Six). I haven't found any 3 skills I want in a single training course.
  • Make single-person skills cheaper to train than whole-crew skills - for instance boosting clutch braking to 100% should cost less than boosting concealment to 100%. Instead of showing 0-10 points applied to each skill, show 0-100% and have 1 point increase cheap skills by say 30% and whole-crew skills by 10%.


Emta #293 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 14:51

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I like the idea behind these changes especially being able to train crews for multiple tanks.

 

I think during the initial conversion, you should be able to put any crew in any tank.  Wargaming  might want to also consider during the initial conversion you can even have crews train for multiple tanks for a short window of time.  After the conversion the procedures for switching should be the same.  
 

we should also be allowed to dismiss any crew member into training booklets for the initial conversion.  Say I have a obj 277 crew and a slightly lower skilled IS4 crew.  I would be able to dismiss the is4 crew and use those training books to get my obj 277 crew closer to max.  Additionally if my crew had more experience than the max 75 point conversion, this should also compensate with training booklets.  Then I could use the crews for both tanks.  Wargaming should be very generous with this aspect for this one time initial conversion.  
 

In my sandbox testing, it doesn’t seem like the crews are at the same level preconception but since it will be the same for everyone then I guess that is fine.  There also seem to be some skills that could make the crews actually better.  I do agree that there should also be more than 75 points.  I noticed someone else said 90 points which would be a little better.  This would make crews feel similar to what they are now.  
 

The conversion to instructors does not seem to be the same value as they were preconversion.  I get that they are not earned/grinder skills but we did earn them in other ways.  So if I use a full zero skill crew that has 4 additional skills it is the same a a 5 skill normal crew now.  Why can’t it be the same after the conversion?  Again wargamming should be generous with the one time conversion.  
 

 



Winterx #294 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 17:27

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J'Accuse…!

 



Ball_Turret #295 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 18:22

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So this is the price we payed for free 6th sense. This will make the game more frustrating than it is already for newcomers and average players like myself. Revamping the crew skill into this weird talent tree layout when before it was easier to look through skills and perks and one can understand how they work to an extent. And now here is Wg again taking a sledgehammer smashing something to "fix a problem" on something that was just fine as it is. When these changes get rammed out after sandbox I might as well leave because I'm not in the mood to revamp all of my tanks and crews as many have said we have put too much time and money into them just for them to be gimped and thrown down a pit and you telling us to shut up and p(l)ay.

 

  In any case I wonder how badly this will cripple the game, guess I can just sit around watch for the inevitable firestorm. :popcorn:


Edited by Ball_Turret, Feb 28 2021 - 18:23.


GunnHammer #296 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 20:53

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OK, just discovered another thing.  I converted an very experienced crew, picked all their skills, THEN my special commander was converted to an instructor with PRE-selected skills that did not match the skills I choose for crew. 

 

So my +2 instructor has no effect.  Unless I spend gold to retrain my crew for a skill I don't want want.   Yep, thanks for all the 'choice'.  

 

I'll say it again, in the hopes that someone is actually reading this: 

 

Drop the whole instructor thing.  Let existing special crew members have a +1 or +2 bonus, and open up the skills to pick and choose what you want instead of having to pick a particular 'line' of skills. 

 

And another thing, give people free time to move things around until they figure this all out.  



CatcusJo #297 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 23:02

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Hi.

 

In my garage on the normal game client, I have 16 unique crew members in my barracks that I have not selected to use yet.  A mixture of holiday ops, team clash, racing ops and Mirny-13 event etc

 

On the sandbox server, the 5 unique Mirny-13 crew members which come with enough for 3 skils/perks are not shown as instructors BUT are shown as SKINS !!!

 

They should be shown as instructors along with the rest of the unique members.

 

stay safe all

 



CZARBUCKZ #298 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 23:26

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Yea I noticed that as well, I had some twitch commanders end up as trainers and some as skins and some just poof, gone they are there when I go to convert the crew but after conversion they are just gone. 

 

I guess what really floors me is that every special crew member I have I either paid for or got as a reward, Wargaming has been profiting off of crew members and the special skill / talent bonuses as a means to get us to do special missions or pay for special tanks! These special commanders are so special when we do the big Battle Pass thing we can get both 3d styles, but we can only choose ONE of the commanders! That's how special these crew members have been until screw 2.0, now they don't mean a thing? what the hell?

 

That is why this is so wrong and such a ripoff, I will not be playing if they do this.

 

And I can close my Twich account as well because who cares right?


Edited by CZARBUCKZ, Feb 28 2021 - 23:27.


freshwatergame #299 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 23:26

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View Postomi5cron, on Feb 25 2021 - 06:01, said:

still no "feedback" allowed?

 

Pros

    No more sub 100% crews

    Everyone has sixth-sense

    More crew-skills to choose on

    One crew for multiple vehicles

 

thats it. leave the rest alone UNTIL a further many months.

dont like that idea, i enjoy manning the OI without sixth sense, believe me i do well in that beast without it.... and if your crafty you can have one crew for multiple vehicles... i have crew outfitted for t62a sitting in 3485m configured e29f34 &28,,, but you cant make that easy cause what would be the idea of having one crew without the need to train it, defeats the crew concept. And you cant cap the crew, if 100 was it then auto racing would not exist without drafting... called skills... and there really isnt any other skill or perk conceivable. oddball had negative waves or maybe flat luck, to stretch it would be going beyond fantastic. keep it on the level or it becomes far out stupid... So goes if these sets pass the conglomerates time too retire  



Mac_1952 #300 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 23:39

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I am skeptical that new players, or players starting out with a new tank, will be better off with Crew 2.0

 

Below you will find a Sherman Firefly with a crew to 90% with BIA and no other skills. The Firefly crew had 40 matches before the conversion. It took 13 more matches to bring the skill point total to 16.

 

The advantage to the Firefly over any other version of the M4 should be its 17 pounder gun; but in the conversion, this tank loses fire power.

 

IF.. the new Vehicle Handling percentage equates to the older crew percentage, this conversion cost the crew 6% of what it previously had.

 

Before Conversion                                          After conversion to Crew 2.0

Sherman Firefly [vents, rammer, modified configuration]
90% BIA                                                                15 Skill points to distribute, 1 instructor
Commander 106%
Crew 117%                                                          Vehicle Handling 111%
Fire Power          - 304                                      289 (-15)
Survival                 - 76                                        76
Mobility                - 419                                     419
Concealment     - 274                                      274
Spotting               - 550                                      569 (+19)

                                                                                Coherence= 10
                                                                                Quick Repair = 5
                                                                                Concentration = 2 (Instructor bonus)







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