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My analysis of the Type 64 in Crew 2.0


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SwollenOstrich #1 Posted Yesterday, 10:58 PM

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Setup:

---Stats in 1.0 are with a 4 to 5 skill crew.
---Stats in 2.0 are with a 75 point crew (equiv of a 5 skill crew) (I used the free xp to bump them up.
 

Summary: even with maxed out *everything* in 2.0, I cannot achieve the stats of 1.0. Additionally, there is a finite number of instructors available to allow the maxing out of more than a handful of tanks even possible.

 

Analysis: Here an example set of possible skills to be trained on a scout in 1.0, across all crew positions, with a 4-5 skill crew:

6th, BIA, View Range skills (2 of them), Camo, Smooth ride, Off road, Snap Shot, Repairs, Safe Stowage, and ... Firefighting (if using food, but moot anyway, see below).

 

In crew 2.0, you can have 7 fully researched skills and 1/2 of another.  (i.e 75 total points)

 

6th is built-in in 2.0, so we will remove it from consideration of both lists, hence the strikethru.

 

In 2.0, I trained this same crew up to 75 points, and allocated them as closely as I could to the correlating skills from 1.0, with 10 points to each to these skills:


Coherence, Eyes Open, Camo, Smooth Ride, Off Road, Snap Shot, Quick Repair, and my final 5 points to Safety Measures (which is as close as I can find to safe stowage).

 

Safety Measures appears to protect all internal modules, not just the ammo rack, so that is a slight benefit not found in 1.0.

 

There are no further points to allocate.

 

I then added four instructors, including three class II instructors (rare!) in an attempt to improve stats. I value vision, so I had to allocate 6 instructors to China: two of them "rolled" skills that were not helpful to a scout, so I could not use them. I got luckier with the other 4 instructors. This random rolling of skills in instructors sucks, btw, But that is another matter.

 

I have a decent number of instructors, but at a rate of 4 a tank, I am only going to be able to *fully* max a dozen or so tanks, and that is assuming I can get the instructors to "roll" skills that I can actually use!

 

Previously, I could "max" out all tanks in my garage if I chose ... it was just a matter of grinding. Now? Nope. You have a finite number of instructors. Good luck.

 

Below are the 2.0 and 1.0 screenshots. 

 

Notice I got the 2.0 view range to 1 meter higher than 1.0, but camo(!!!!), traverse, dpm, aim time are all worse. Repair speed is higher in 2.0 but only because I didn't have that fully trained in 1.0. 

 

Dispersion is slightly better in 2.0, it looks like they are splitting that stat into hull and turret dispersion, so the actual bump is quite small, even though it looks like a whole new category. Also, there is a tiny bit more "maintaining" speed indicated in 2.0, but I am not sure that isn't there in 1.0, just not shown. I can give them the benefit of the doubt, I guess.

 

I started this process optimistic, but now, I am kind of discouraged. If I have to allocate my limited number of instructors to only a few tanks just to get ONE stat (view range) to the level it was previously, that means the rest of my tanks have zero chance of being even close to the stats they used to have in 1.0.

 

The only consolation is that this affects everyone, not just me. So I guess there is that.

 

 



_W_R_A_I_T_H_ #2 Posted Yesterday, 11:05 PM

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Crew 2.0 sucks.  It may cause me to quit the game.  I can't even figure out how to move a crew into a premium tank. 

 

I hate the one capt crews in WOWS which is why I don't like that game and now WG is bringing it to tanks. 



Bo55Hog #3 Posted Yesterday, 11:07 PM

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I was just looking at the Leopard PT A and i noticed that with the new crew the tank is slower, reload, traverse, less concealment. So how is this supposed to improve the tank? am i understanding this in the correct way?

tod914 #4 Posted Yesterday, 11:07 PM

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Interesting.  Just checking out the interface and skills/perks right now.  I did a quick test in the Manticore.  I had Santa and a female assigned in 1.0.  Once converted they are vaporware.  How do you reallocated them (assigned female crew members, Santas)  so they can be used as Instructors instead of their xp stacking onto a new commander?

 

I don't like that idea that you can't research all the skills with having to give up Talent.  Seems the Talent is kind of like the BIA boost.


Edited by tod914, Yesterday, 11:31 PM.


RetroMan55 #5 Posted Yesterday, 11:56 PM

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Why "fix" what wasn't broke?  Let the devs go back to tossing pencils into the ceiling tiles to pass their time.

 

...or better yet, make them grind their way up the tech tree like regular players.



Flakker2 #6 Posted Today, 12:00 AM

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View Post_W_R_A_I_T_H_, on Feb 23 2021 - 17:05, said:

Crew 2.0 sucks.  It may cause me to quit the game.  I can't even figure out how to move a crew into a premium tank. 

 

I hate the one capt crews in WOWS which is why I don't like that game and now WG is bringing it to tanks. 


If you decide to quit, can I have your stuff? I will keep them safe until you return.



ThePigSheFlies #7 Posted Today, 12:07 AM

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View PostSwollenOstrich, on Feb 23 2021 - 16:58, said:

 

The only consolation is that this affects everyone, not just me. So I guess there is that.

 

 

 

it only affects you if you put up with it and keep playing.



SwollenOstrich #8 Posted Today, 12:08 AM

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Update: I keep seeing where you can train your crews above 75%.

 

So, just for grins, I bought 20 million credits worth of crew books and dumped the ALL into this crew. That a lot, folks:

 

Results? My View range did indeed go up to 525, which is amazing. But that's it. The other stats matched pretty much spot on with version 1.0. with one odd exception: camo, which didn't budge AT ALL. 

 

Net result? Sure, max everything to 75 points and dump in another 20 MILLION credits and you can have a tank that matches roughly with a moderately trained (4 to 5 skill) crew in version 1.0 and an additional 24 meters view range. 

 

Bargain, eh? That is less than 1 million credits per additional meter!

 

 



coconut2011 #9 Posted Today, 12:12 AM

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You can bump the skill after 75 to increase stats further.  It will be expensive though.

 

NVM, you just added it.


Edited by coconut2011, Today, 12:12 AM.


Flakker2 #10 Posted Today, 12:13 AM

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Yes, after 75 there is the potential to have a better tank than is currently possible, but that would take a lot of time or gold.

coconut2011 #11 Posted Today, 12:14 AM

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View PostSwollenOstrich, on Feb 23 2021 - 15:08, said:

Update: I keep seeing where you can train your crews above 75%.

 

So, just for grins, I bought 20 million credits worth of crew books and dumped the ALL into this crew. That a lot, folks:

 

Results? My View range did indeed go up to 525, which is amazing. But that's it. The other stats matched pretty much spot on with version 1.0. with one odd exception: camo, which didn't budge AT ALL. 

 

Net result? Sure, max everything to 75 points and dump in another 20 MILLION credits and you can have a tank that matches roughly with a moderately trained (4 to 5 skill) crew in version 1.0 and an additional 24 meters view range. 

 

Bargain, eh? That is less than 1 million credits per additional meter!

 

 

 

I think that WG failed to account for the 10% bonus crews get from commander in the current system.

 



Guido1212 #12 Posted Today, 12:18 AM

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View PostSwollenOstrich, on Feb 23 2021 - 23:08, said:

Update: I keep seeing where you can train your crews above 75%.

 

So, just for grins, I bought 20 million credits worth of crew books and dumped the ALL into this crew. That a lot, folks:

 

Results? My View range did indeed go up to 525, which is amazing. But that's it. The other stats matched pretty much spot on with version 1.0. with one odd exception: camo, which didn't budge AT ALL. 

 

Net result? Sure, max everything to 75 points and dump in another 20 MILLION credits and you can have a tank that matches roughly with a moderately trained (4 to 5 skill) crew in version 1.0 and an additional 24 meters view range. 

 

Bargain, eh? That is less than 1 million credits per additional meter!

 

 

 

I think camo is broken on the SB in regards to Food and the Directives.  I can't get it to work with them and there is a warning that the food doesn't work unless the concealment perk is trained and I trained it 10, so it's broken or I'm missing something.



SwollenOstrich #13 Posted Today, 12:18 AM

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View PostFlakker2, on Feb 23 2021 - 17:13, said:

Yes, after 75 there is the potential to have a better tank than is currently possible, but that would take a lot of time or gold.

Yes, you can bump up some specific "overall" stats up with a tremendous amount of grinding or credits. 

 

But you can NOT, for instance, EVER bump up or even train skills you used to have ... firefighting, deadeye, clutch braking ... those secondary skills that didn't fit within your primary list of 7.5. 

 

Best crew in the game in the LT-432 will still burn up every other game with no fire extinguisher and no firefighter skill even *allowed* to be trained. You pretty much HAVE to drop food or other consumable to run a fire extinguisher on tanks like that ... enjoy that stealth nerf!



Prof_Nutbutter #14 Posted Today, 12:20 AM

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View Post_W_R_A_I_T_H_, on Feb 23 2021 - 23:05, said:

Crew 2.0 sucks.  It may cause me to quit the game.  I can't even figure out how to move a crew into a premium tank. 

 

I hate the one capt crews in WOWS which is why I don't like that game and now WG is bringing it to tanks. 

So in wows would you want 2000 sailors to manage for your battleships?



Flakker2 #15 Posted Today, 12:20 AM

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View Postcoconut2011, on Feb 23 2021 - 18:14, said:

 

I think that WG failed to account for the 10% bonus crews get from commander in the current system.

 


They are accounting for it with the post 75 point progression.



ThePigSheFlies #16 Posted Today, 12:21 AM

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View PostProf_Nutbutter, on Feb 23 2021 - 18:20, said:

So in wows would you want 2000 sailors to manage for your battleships?

 

illogical question.  that game started more or less with the system it has, and aside from that not everyone plays wargaming's other offerings.  I find warships mind numbingly, horrifically boring to play.



ComfyTank #17 Posted Today, 12:33 AM

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View PostSwollenOstrich, on Feb 24 2021 - 00:08, said:

with one odd exception: camo, which didn't budge AT ALL.

 

My understanding of the game mechanics is that vents/food/etc ( "vehicle handling" ) now directly boosts the stats on the vehicle, rather than boosting crew skills.  The camo was never directly boostable as a vehicle stat, it was only boostable because the crew skill "camouflage" existed, but crew skills are no longer boostable in that way.  Basically, it was a weird way in which crew skills stacked with each other, but no longer do.  Maybe someone better at the game than me can verify this.


Edited by ComfyTank, Today, 12:34 AM.


coconut2011 #18 Posted Today, 02:06 AM

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View PostFlakker2, on Feb 23 2021 - 15:20, said:


They are accounting for it with the post 75 point progression.

Which is extremely expensive and difficult to get to.



SwollenOstrich #19 Posted Today, 04:13 AM

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Another update: so for even more grins, I sold a bunch of consumables and equipment and after applying all the free XP from the sandbox and 165,000,000 credits worth of crew books, I got my Type 64 crew up to "Specialist Class I" (it goes even higher to an M for mastery I think level but I lost patience selling stuff)  and I got:

 

the view range up to 540. This *single* statistic is fantastic. But again, 165 MILLION credits to do this.

 

The other changes were nominal at best:

Rate of fire went to 20.84, which is about 1/2 a round more per minute than a 4 skill crew in Crew 1.0. 

Dispersion: .35 instead of the current .36

Traverse speed went up to 78.9 over the current 75.73. Slightly more responsive in a game situation

 

Camo seems to indeed be broken, at least how it displays in the garage.

 

Bottom line: if you are holding out hope that you are going to be able to have a dominating tank (I saw someone saying something about "triple" and "quad" BIA or vents or something) you are kidding yourself. 

 

IF you have about 1 or 2 favorite tanks that you only play, you can sell off everything and pour all credits into crew books for those couple of tanks and live out your WoT career in just those tanks and do ok.

 

Otherwise, you are going to have to settle for approximately the equivalent of a 4 crew tank in every tank in your garage, and a 5 crew tank in about 5-15 tanks, depending on how many instructors you can accumulate.

 

Naturally, WG may adjust numbers and maybe these are just horribly bugged. But as it, this Crew 2.0 is just an enormous nerf across the board.

 

 

 



ComfyTank #20 Posted Today, 05:54 AM

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View PostSwollenOstrich, on Feb 24 2021 - 04:13, said:

Another update: so for even more grins, I sold a bunch of consumables and equipment and after applying all the free XP from the sandbox and 165,000,000 credits worth of crew books, I got my Type 64 crew up to "Specialist Class I" (it goes even higher to an M for mastery I think level but I lost patience selling stuff)  and I got:

 

the view range up to 540. This *single* statistic is fantastic. But again, 165 MILLION credits to do this.

 

The other changes were nominal at best:

Rate of fire went to 20.84, which is about 1/2 a round more per minute than a 4 skill crew in Crew 1.0. 

Dispersion: .35 instead of the current .36

Traverse speed went up to 78.9 over the current 75.73. Slightly more responsive in a game situation

 

Camo seems to indeed be broken, at least how it displays in the garage.

 

Bottom line: if you are holding out hope that you are going to be able to have a dominating tank (I saw someone saying something about "triple" and "quad" BIA or vents or something) you are kidding yourself. 

 

IF you have about 1 or 2 favorite tanks that you only play, you can sell off everything and pour all credits into crew books for those couple of tanks and live out your WoT career in just those tanks and do ok.

 

Otherwise, you are going to have to settle for approximately the equivalent of a 4 crew tank in every tank in your garage, and a 5 crew tank in about 5-15 tanks, depending on how many instructors you can accumulate.

 

Naturally, WG may adjust numbers and maybe these are just horribly bugged. But as it, this Crew 2.0 is just an enormous nerf across the board.

 

 

 

 

There's another way you can cause camo to be broken OP.  You basically have to roll instructors until you get lucky enough to get 4 camo instructors.  QB did this on stream and got tier 10 EBR moving camo to 59+%.  ELC EVEN camo was 62+% on the same crew.


Edited by ComfyTank, Today, 05:56 AM.





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