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RagnarokBazil #41 Posted Feb 26 2021 - 22:13

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View Postkillerman1997, on Feb 25 2021 - 13:46, said:

Please stop selling the 105 leFH18B2

 

You have done a Arty nerf but left the 105 leFH18B2 un nerfed and still sell it.

 

This tank pushes away so many new players. It is a toxic relic of the past that should not only be nerfed, but never sold again.



I say sell it again.. Cause its the best SPG in the entire game better then tier 10.. Cause whiners like you thought it was a good idea to whine about SPGS so i say.. Sell it till the world drowns in Lefhs as then rain death and destruction on you toxic whiners. More tears to drink!



BianHong #42 Posted Feb 26 2021 - 22:22

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Feb 25 2021 - 10:06, said:

Howdy Boom Jockeys!

 

That's right the 105 leFH18B2 SPG and AMX 13 57 light tank are here for grabs from now until 5Mar21

 

The base bundle price for this tank with 2500 gold is 19.99.

BTW this is my favorite.

 

 

Buff and upgrade the 105 leFH18B2 to tier-7 or tier-8 and we will have a deal. I will buy it. :)

 

Playing tier-V on my main server, Central server, is frustrating that is why I either go to SA server to play against bots or freexp until tier-6.

 



RagnarokBazil #43 Posted Feb 26 2021 - 22:49

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View PostBianHong, on Feb 26 2021 - 16:22, said:

 

Buff and upgrade the 105 leFH18B2 to tier-7 or tier-8 and we will have a deal. I will buy it. :)

 

Playing tier-V on my main server, Central server, is frustrating that is why I either go to SA server to play against bots or freexp until tier-6.

 

 

i mean we could have had a premium fv304 at tier 8 or 7 but whiners kinda ruined it..



killerman1997 #44 Posted Feb 26 2021 - 22:58

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Feb 26 2021 - 15:12, said:

It is my favorite tank. I am not that great at the game and some games in Arty having a good time helps with keeping me engaged. 
The tank's only saving grace is that it rapid fires.

New players have every opportunity to get this tank through our sales/ gift boxes. 

 

Yea it's top for damage but was that statistic from all time? As in what are the stats since after the Arty reworks. 
Lef bottom tier isn't that fun especially in a tier 7 battle when you are pinging players for 23 in HE damage and the "premium" round bounces 75%-99% of the time. For me, it's 99%. 

 

TLDR Lef doesn't deal damage in HE, it doesn't stun, and its ridiculously slow even for an arty. 
Only good thing is how far and how often it can shoot in specific maps that don't have buildings or mountains in the way. 

BTW there isn't winning or losing a debate. You have your ideas and opinions and I have mine. It can drive players away or when it's for sale attract new players to buy it and play. 

Three Lefs sounds like a fun time for Wheeled/ Light tanks to go hunt down. 

You can play it KRZYBooP, im not faulting anyone for playing a tank.

 

What im saying is that It is to strong. It has the best win rate out of all arty, so just because its only doing 23 damage to high tier tanks doesn't mean it isnt influencing games. It clearly is, with its damage being comparable to tier 7's and 8's arty.

 

All im saying is that Clearly it is stronger than you think. Those statistics that i showed are the past 60 days. 220,000 battles have been played in the last 60 days by all types of players. (https://www.tomato.gg/tank-stats Great Website that has statistics on all tanks for the last 60 days)

 

And the fact that you are saying anyone can get it (with money) because its on sale all the time. Please dont use that as an excuse BooP. saying anyone can get it if they pay real money isnt good.

 

The fact that this is a debate saddens me deeply. You can have tanks that are fun to play, but not the strongest by a large margin. And you are right, this isnt about winning or losing a debate, its about the health of my favorite game, and im frightened that its losing players due to unhealthy tanks being sold. i will be playing the game to the end, whether it be 5 years or 20 years from now, its been in my life for almost 2/5 of it, and i dont think its going to die in a few years. but the way that some things are getting handled dont look good to me.



killerman1997 #45 Posted Feb 26 2021 - 23:03

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View PostRagnarokBazil, on Feb 26 2021 - 16:13, said:



I say sell it again.. Cause its the best SPG in the entire game better then tier 10.. Cause whiners like you thought it was a good idea to whine about SPGS so i say.. Sell it till the world drowns in Lefhs as then rain death and destruction on you toxic whiners. More tears to drink!

i dont wish anyone to have bad games, we are here to have fun. Im saying to balance tanks correctly. All of them, Payed or Grindable. If you want otherwise then i feel bad that you are the real toxic player. I hope you have fun at least.



icbrainy #46 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 00:00

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Feb 26 2021 - 20:12, said:

I haven't had the chance to dive into the sandbox, but all of us share our player's concerns with the cons of the changes. Remember these aren't 100% going into the game right yet. Your Community team is asking all the same questions that are being brought up and trying to find easy solutions. 


My opinion in the situation is that our Devs want to break the constant only one logical choice for our player's as you saw with equipment 2.0. 10 years of having all crew with the same set of skills some of which affect things that you don't really notice. Smooth ride? Off-road driving?! Isn't it a tank that does everything off-road? Who would put someone in the driver's seat and then tell them to pull over to swap out for someone that has off-road training? 

Our job isn't to sell the changes to players, or argue and debate. We are here to share the voice of our players, keep forums and other topics game-related. Yes, you caught me I am an advocate of optimism and try to light up some good in the changes that are proposed in some forum posts. Maybe even try to dispel some specific hat-wearing players, but that is just who I am as a person. 

 

Forgive me for this being not in relation to the contents of the OP, but...

 

Can you's just simply run a simple and straightforward YES/NO official poll, where the numerical results can be seen by everybody and the final decision be solely on that majority result for this edition of the game? That way people can be assured that their views are properly recorded and in a way that cannot be disputed but viewable by anyone? This forum is meant to be a means of communication between players (customers) and Wargaming (company), right?

 

This is the line that keeps echoing in my head:
Is all this what "we" want? Or is it what Minsk wants?

 

KRZY, I'm not being funny in the slightest and I am speaking from experience here as someone who has worked at an authority-run community hub center for the previous 11 years, but I think WGNA needs to step up to the plate and really break down these unnecessary barriers between us and the decision makers; there is a lot of unrest left, right and center going on right now. To make matters worse, Wargaming's integrity has severely crumbled to tatters in the last few years. To be honest, Wargaming's behaviour is starting to become more and more comparable to that of what Electronic Arts and many other companies reported in the media have been caught doing lately.

 

I have no doubt that you will find some of what I said significantly hurtful and I won't blame you at all for dubbing me a difficult character in recent times, but you should at least credit me and others voicing similar saying it straight how how yourself, your colleagues, the WGNA branch, and the rest of Wargaming as a whole is portraying to me. Honesty is the best policy, no?

Unless Minsk says something in response to the ongoing superheated debate, I don't think this is going to settle down for a significant timeframe.



Altwar #47 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 08:10

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View Postkillerman1997, on Feb 26 2021 - 12:05, said:

 

 

So it's moving goal posts for you when you find failure in your early comments is it?   You were incorrect and should be mature enough to admit it.

So let's get to your latest retort to me:

View Postkillerman1997, on Feb 26 2021 - 12:05, said:

Holy cow you are stuck on one thing i said, ill say it again for  your pleasure. The LeFH arty is clearly PAY TO WIN

 

You say that you are saying it again for "my pleasure".  Well looking back, you didn't say "PAY TO WIN" previously:

Spoiler

 

View Postkillerman1997, on Feb 26 2021 - 12:05, said:

at some point, has drove people away form the game, weather it be one person, or 50% of the new player base i dont know. you can not sit here and say that not a single person left, nor can i say 50%, im saying THERE ARE SOME AMOUNT OF PEOPLE LEAVING BECAUSE OF IT. 100% sure of it. and if you honestly think other wise, there is no hope for you.

 

Again, assert this all you want but you still have provided no evidence.   As you said before, you've no way to prove it so your words remain empty and this point is unproven and without value.

 

View Postkillerman1997, on Feb 26 2021 - 12:05, said:

Now. You can say the same thing about any other arty. that they miss, or about any tank., that they miss. Yet some how THE LEFH HAS THE HIGHEST WIN RATE OUT OF ALL ARTY. BY 2 PERCENT.

 

Given that stat padding is a thing in the SA server and is said to be common in low to mid tier, a 2% WR of the leFH above other SPGs (per Tomato.gg) can be challenged as questionable.  Perhaps some players take the leFH to the SA server to pad, perhaps not.  But I think there's some doubt in this stat here; enough that a 2% margin is negligible IMO.  Btw, Tomato.gg is not the only site with WR%, etc.  Other sites have some stats that may call into question the stats of Tomato.gg.

This site http://wotinfo.net/en/nerf-barometer?_recent=on&_premium=on&country=all&vehicletype=SPG&tier=all&server=any has the Sexton 1 as the top winning WR% by about 6%.   This site https://wn8lab.com/tanks/stats which tomato.gg says has the access to precise battles tomato.gg will never have has it very different as well.   So type in caps all you want.  Your citings as I've just shown are debatable.

 

View Postkillerman1997, on Feb 26 2021 - 12:05, said:

If i had 2% more wins, id be in the top 99.9% of players. Id take that 2% and cherish it!

 

You said you do have the leFH but won't play it.  But according to you, the leFH has 2% more wins and if you had 2% more wins, you'd take it and cherish it.  Well, why haven't you taken it and cherished it as you said?  Very contradictory statements on your part.

 

Anyway, bottom line:  no proof that the leFH drives players away.   Repeat it all you want, until you get blue in the face, but it still won't make it so.  It'll just make you seem like this:  :arta:

 

There is proof via the speed at which the leFH was sold in the Black Market that it is a popular vehicle to have.  Battle counts show that it's played often.   So players want to play it and are willing to shell out a few bucks to have some fun.  It's cheap enough right now that it's accessible to most players, making the playing field more level to all.   And Wargaming will make a few $$ and keep the doors open.  So we all win.

 

if you want to reply again and move the field goal posts yet again and come up with more nonsense, by all means, go ahead and wallow in futility. 



HejHejMonika #48 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 13:30

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I will say,

 

As a new player moving up the tech tree with potato crews and 10 second track repairs, I grew to loath the lefe. The amount of times I got hull penned by an HE round from it for 410 or permatracked to death I literally can't count. It wasn't a pleasant experience as a newbie. Had I not had prior experience with the game from playing Blitz for years and I was a true new player to the game, I might have quit over it. Not gonna lie. It wasn't fun.

 

Thought I might add my experiences with the LeFe as a new player.


Edited by NateRocko, Feb 27 2021 - 13:30.


black_colt #49 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 17:38

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View Postkillerman1997, on Feb 25 2021 - 13:51, said:

Facts require documentation except we will never get any documentation other than what we observe.

My Opinion is valid here. So is this colts. as we cant ever figure it out.

 

I would not play this game if i was tier 6 and below. Lucky i have higher tiers to play. that is the only "proof" we will ever get. because how the hell can you tell otherwise?


Which is why it is important to differentiate between opinion and facts.  

 

IMHO expressing opinions on the forums is fine- even great - to generate a conversation/discussion but individuals posting should be explicit when doing so.

 

As for facts - those require discipline and time.  There have been many, IIRC, posters who have gathered the facts from their games, presented a theory based on that data, and published the data in their post.  Does not mean they have a valid argument/point though ... but it does spark some good discussions especially when others weigh in with data to either support/discredit the original theory.

 

IMHO WG should be more transparent on why they feel having a vehicle that is polarizing the Community, if the forum posts are used as an indicator, is in and available for the game.  

 

After all, we have all agreed to their rules when we click on that EULA.



black_colt #50 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 17:48

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View PostNateRocko, on Feb 27 2021 - 04:30, said:

I will say,

 

As a new player moving up the tech tree with potato crews and 10 second track repairs, I grew to loath the lefe. The amount of times I got hull penned by an HE round from it for 410 or permatracked to death I literally can't count. It wasn't a pleasant experience as a newbie. Had I not had prior experience with the game from playing Blitz for years and I was a true new player to the game, I might have quit over it. Not gonna lie. It wasn't fun.

 

Thought I might add my experiences with the LeFe as a new player.


Exactly my experience and opinion of the M44 - being one-shot in my Tier IV and V vehicles was the single most frustrating thing.

Hopefully, and I have not fully read up on this, the artillery changes will mitigate the ability of artillery to one-shot lower tier vehicles.  There needs to be a chance but IMHO not a very high one - e.g. one-in-twenty.


Edited by black_colt, Feb 27 2021 - 17:56.


black_colt #51 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 17:56

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Feb 25 2021 - 10:06, said:

Howdy Boom Jockeys!

 

That's right the 105 leFH18B2 SPG and AMX 13 57 light tank are here for grabs from now until 5Mar21

 

The base bundle price for this tank with 2500 gold is 19.99.

BTW this is my favorite.

 

 

The base price for this tank is 32.99 and is a very popular autoloader. 

 

If you really just can't decide then go ahead take both for the crazy price of 29.99.

 

 

If you have either tank then you will be compensated in gold :)

 

More information can be found HERE.


While WG has the right to only sell Premium vehicles in the Premium Shop for legal tender IMHO they should allow players to purchase vehicles for gold/credits in the game at the same time.

This, IMHO, would mitigate the feeling that World of Tanks is a pay-to-win game.

Now if we could just get the Obj. 279 (e) for legal tender, gold, or credits ...

 



RamaLamaDingDong1 #52 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 18:47

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View Postkillerman1997, on Feb 26 2021 - 20:55, said:

So being number 1 in most metrics means its just good? if i got 25% more kills than the next best player, id be suspected of cheating. there is something called balance and maybe you should look into it, being the best tank is different than being better than tanks 3+ tiers above it.

Maybe you should play the tank before you toss out pages of bitter replies. It is not all that an it isn't as game changing as the numbers. It has a rapid fire that in low tiers its in can perma trac a tank in the open an pin prick it to death. It racks up big numbers by isolation an exposure of a tank using that method. It has little else that most arty has. Its view range is ridiculous but what real good is that? It is so slow it can't relocate. It lives off isolation of single tanks and has lunch on them thru the perma trac.

M-44 on the other hand can dominate a match being bottom tier.

Your over hyping the numbers in an attempt to be right an for some reason need to be acknowledged as such. Frankly everyone who wanted a LeFH virtually already has one an has had it for years. Putting it on sale again really makes zero difference.



killerman1997 #53 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 19:37

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View PostAltwar, on Feb 27 2021 - 02:10, said:

 

So it's moving goal posts for you when you find failure in your early comments is it?   You were incorrect and should be mature enough to admit it.

So let's get to your latest retort to me:

 

You say that you are saying it again for "my pleasure".  Well looking back, you didn't say "PAY TO WIN" previously:

 

Again, assert this all you want but you still have provided no evidence.   As you said before, you've no way to prove it so your words remain empty and this point is unproven and without value.

 

 

Given that stat padding is a thing in the SA server and is said to be common in low to mid tier, a 2% WR of the leFH above other SPGs (per Tomato.gg) can be challenged as questionable.  Perhaps some players take the leFH to the SA server to pad, perhaps not.  But I think there's some doubt in this stat here; enough that a 2% margin is negligible IMO.  Btw, Tomato.gg is not the only site with WR%, etc.  Other sites have some stats that may call into question the stats of Tomato.gg.

This site http://wotinfo.net/en/nerf-barometer?_recent=on&_premium=on&country=all&vehicletype=SPG&tier=all&server=any has the Sexton 1 as the top winning WR% by about 6%.   This site https://wn8lab.com/tanks/stats which tomato.gg says has the access to precise battles tomato.gg will never have has it very different as well.   So type in caps all you want.  Your citings as I've just shown are debatable.

 

 

You said you do have the leFH but won't play it.  But according to you, the leFH has 2% more wins and if you had 2% more wins, you'd take it and cherish it.  Well, why haven't you taken it and cherished it as you said?  Very contradictory statements on your part.

 

Anyway, bottom line:  no proof that the leFH drives players away.   Repeat it all you want, until you get blue in the face, but it still won't make it so.  It'll just make you seem like this:  :arta:

 

There is proof via the speed at which the leFH was sold in the Black Market that it is a popular vehicle to have.  Battle counts show that it's played often.   So players want to play it and are willing to shell out a few bucks to have some fun.  It's cheap enough right now that it's accessible to most players, making the playing field more level to all.   And Wargaming will make a few $$ and keep the doors open.  So we all win.

 

if you want to reply again and move the field goal posts yet again and come up with more nonsense, by all means, go ahead and wallow in futility.

http://wotinfo.net/en/nerf-barometer?recent=true&_recent=on&_premium=on&country=all&vehicletype=SPG&tier=all&server=us

Please use Recent NA servers stats?

and if you want to use ALL servers and ALL time periods? the sexton is Overpowered too, as its a tier 3 arty with a 63% win rate :facepalm:

Also WN8lab doesnt show what server, nor does it match Wotinfo's information.

 

i have no more words for you, clearly you are unreachable, i will not discuss this any further with you because its like explaining to a brick wall.

 

I gave Legitimate information that in the past 60 days of all players in NA servers that show that the tank is stronger than almost all arty at any tier in the majority of measurable metrics. if thats not enough, the earth is flat because i dont see the curve.

 

View PostRamaLamaDingDong1, on Feb 27 2021 - 12:47, said:

Maybe you should play the tank before you toss out pages of bitter replies. It is not all that an it isn't as game changing as the numbers. It has a rapid fire that in low tiers its in can perma trac a tank in the open an pin prick it to death. It racks up big numbers by isolation an exposure of a tank using that method. It has little else that most arty has. Its view range is ridiculous but what real good is that? It is so slow it can't relocate. It lives off isolation of single tanks and has lunch on them thru the perma trac.

M-44 on the other hand can dominate a match being bottom tier.

Your over hyping the numbers in an attempt to be right an for some reason need to be acknowledged as such. Frankly everyone who wanted a LeFH virtually already has one an has had it for years. Putting it on sale again really makes zero difference.

i am not over hyping the numbers unfortunately. Those are the numbers. it gets 25% more kills than that next closest arty, the second best arty... not average of arty (*edit* just did the math, it gets 50% more kills than the average arty). I dont know how i can make that any more dramatic that it already is. It makes a huge difference if they keep selling it, because it means they do not care about the low tier gameplay, just because everyone has it already doesnt make it okay to sell more of them, clearly people are buying it if they are put it on sale regularly.

 

 

 

 

The fact that this is a debate saddens me deeply. You can have tanks that are fun to play, but not the strongest by a large margin. And you are right, this isnt about winning or losing a debate, its about the health of my favorite game, and im frightened that its losing players due to unhealthy tanks being sold. i will be playing the game to the end, whether it be 5 years or 20 years from now, its been in my life for almost 2/5 of it, and i dont think its going to die in a few years. but the way that some things are getting handled dont look good to me.

 


Edited by killerman1997, Feb 27 2021 - 19:51.


killerman1997 #54 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 19:42

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View Postblack_colt, on Feb 27 2021 - 11:38, said:


Which is why it is important to differentiate between opinion and facts.  

 

IMHO expressing opinions on the forums is fine- even great - to generate a conversation/discussion but individuals posting should be explicit when doing so.

 

As for facts - those require discipline and time.  There have been many, IIRC, posters who have gathered the facts from their games, presented a theory based on that data, and published the data in their post.  Does not mean they have a valid argument/point though ... but it does spark some good discussions especially when others weigh in with data to either support/discredit the original theory.

 

IMHO WG should be more transparent on why they feel having a vehicle that is polarizing the Community, if the forum posts are used as an indicator, is in and available for the game.  

 

After all, we have all agreed to their rules when we click on that EULA.


Facts do not require discipline and time. They require accurate information.

I gave information and yet people dont seem to care. ill give you a link again to where just like every other website tracking tanks show that the Lefh (and sextion) are to strong.

https://www.tomato.gg/tank-stats

Go ahead and look for yourself. just look at all arty. dont even sort by tier, doesnt matter, lefh is number 1 in half the metrics they give.



RamaLamaDingDong1 #55 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 20:20

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Actually I would bet it isn't or hasn't sold well last time they tossed it out because they felt the need to package it with other stuff to spark some sales. I don't play the tiers its in very often so I cant say how much its being played now. I have not played mine in a good 2 years. 

black_colt #56 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 21:16

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View Postkillerman1997, on Feb 27 2021 - 10:42, said:


Facts do not require discipline and time. They require accurate information.

I gave information and yet people dont seem to care. ill give you a link again to where just like every other website tracking tanks show that the Lefh (and sextion) are to strong.

https://www.tomato.gg/tank-stats

Go ahead and look for yourself. just look at all arty. dont even sort by tier, doesnt matter, lefh is number 1 in half the metrics they give.

 

Well then why does WoTLabs.net have different statistics for the Le than the URL you provided?

Which one is accurate?


 



killerman1997 #57 Posted Feb 27 2021 - 21:58

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View Postblack_colt, on Feb 27 2021 - 15:16, said:

 

Well then why does WoTLabs.net have different statistics for the Le than the URL you provided?

Which one is accurate?


 


Im getting tired of all of you, You are clearly trolling. I guess i have to show you how to do basic research.

 

60 day NA Server (Tomato.gg)

Spoiler

 

No clue what the hell this is. My guess? Not NA servers and 7 day recent. (WN8lab.com)

Spoiler

 

This doesnt even track all the arty, but sure (Wotinfo.net)

Spoiler

 

Looks like Overall stats since they started collecting data. (Wotlabs.net)

Spoiler

 

 

 

You see how a little thinking helps? they all tell the same story (except for one, which has a small sample size), The lefh is the strongest arty by winrate. which is what we are talking about. that the lefh clearly has a large impact on winning games.

 


Edited by killerman1997, Feb 27 2021 - 22:04.


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View PostKRZYBooP, on Feb 26 2021 - 21:12, said:

 

There's an old saying that Wot needs to apply here to this game and its changes

IF IT AINT BROKE,DONT FIX IT!

and 

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!

If you insist on just complicating this game in a mannerism that does nothing but aggravate me and causes me to spend useless amounts of time fudging around to rectify this nonsense, that will achieve nothing to improve my game play experience, 

me and my main account will continue to sit stagnant!

 


Edited by SawUcomin, Feb 28 2021 - 00:23.


Zugh #59 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 04:21

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Just bought the Lefe thanks to the sale and a very thoughtful 30% coupon someone left in my account. Reading this forum thread has given me some good insight on how to play it. Thanks KRZY!

black_colt #60 Posted Feb 28 2021 - 08:02

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View Postkillerman1997, on Feb 27 2021 - 12:58, said:


Im getting tired of all of you, You are clearly trolling. I guess i have to show you how to do basic research.

 

60 day NA Server (Tomato.gg)

Spoiler

 

No clue what the hell this is. My guess? Not NA servers and 7 day recent. (WN8lab.com)

Spoiler

 

This doesnt even track all the arty, but sure (Wotinfo.net)

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Looks like Overall stats since they started collecting data. (Wotlabs.net)

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You see how a little thinking helps? they all tell the same story (except for one, which has a small sample size), The lefh is the strongest arty by winrate. which is what we are talking about. that the lefh clearly has a large impact on winning games.

 

 

So you still do not answer my question after that novel.

Ok - you state that the Le clearly has a large impact on winning games - please show us so I can understand exactly how you came to that opinion as you have not given facts.


Edited by black_colt, Feb 28 2021 - 08:04.






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