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Y'all need to show the developers some respect

Crew Training Retraining Crew 2.0 Sandbox

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black_irish666 #41 Posted Mar 01 2021 - 22:08

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View PostTango_11a, on Mar 01 2021 - 17:00, said:

If the Dev's have no respect for the player base, they shouldn't expect any in return.

 

 

     So much this, all day long.

+1



Waylandie #42 Posted Mar 01 2021 - 23:16

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OP, nobody asked for this change.  For three years people have been asking for new maps, and balance work done to older tanks.  We've gotten a few tweaks and 1 new map.  So yea, there is some hatred and anger directed at WG. 

As for the crew 2.0, you're kidding yourself if you think this is going to change anything for the better.  I played on the sandbox, with my STRV I was able to stack abilities to increase my chance to destroy modules or kill crew by 18%, have a 4.5 reload time because of adrenaline rush and how that is broken, with the rapid fire perk I had no bloom on firing and I was still able to keep my %65 camo rating and because my crew had so much XP, my handling bonus was %10.  I was averaging 5-6k damage and around 14 modules or crew killed per game.  For me that is a huge improvement, put that tank in the hands of the really good players and they will wreck entire teams.  

It gets even worse when you look at the group tactics they are putting into the game, just wait until you see three clanmates in Chieftains with the group tactic buffs stacked up.  These changes are going to destroy pubs, and make the matches damn near unplayable.  

Badkarma #43 Posted Mar 01 2021 - 23:38

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View PostEzioAuditore1456, on Mar 01 2021 - 00:21, said:

Apparently, the sheer hate for the developers, regardless of how hard they've been trying to improve the game, 
 
 
 
 

This is your mistake...they aren't trying to improve the game, they're trying to make more money from it, which is fine as long as we don't get hosed in the process. I don't hate anybody at WG but this really seems like the proverbial "money grab". Think about it, if I have as many battles as I do, how many tank lines am I grinding at this point, how many crews do I need to train or retrain, how many more premiums do I need? As the playerbase continues to shrink for WG (I didn't say WOT was dying but #s are down) they need to come up with new ways to generate income and this is one of them.

 

If they truly wanted to implement changes to the crew system to make the game better they could keep the current system, give SS to all new commanders, get rid of partially trained new crews, scrap a few useless crew skills and add a few more useful ones for the current meta and then done, easy! But no, they come up with some overly complicated, messy system that truly only "improves" one thing...WG's bottom line. If you truly pay attention and watch videos from QB, Sahm Lockheart, etc. you'll that the losses we will suffer are very, very real; losses in terms of credits/gold and the ability to seal club will get even greater given the larger disparity between the crews of some folks and new(er) players. Crew 2.0 is bad for this game in every way other than giving away SS to all new commanders; that's the ONLY "improvement" in crew 2.0.



LpBronco #44 Posted Mar 01 2021 - 23:41

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Unintended consequences, like a 183 bouncing off 17mm of armor only on a scale even WG has to be scared of... I'm really curious what the Russian reaction to these changes are 'cause some of those boys have some crews. Little disappointed to think that the 6 perk crews, i have (just shy 7) wouldn't be considered top of class. I am not in favor of the wholesale change. Want to add some new skills and rework the skill tree - you can do that with what you already have. At the end of the day the only things that really matter are gun handling and vision mechanics and no matter how you dress up a pig  - it's still a pig.

EzioAuditore1456 #45 Posted Mar 01 2021 - 23:51

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View PostTango_11a, on Mar 01 2021 - 18:00, said:

If the Dev's have no respect for the player base, they shouldn't expect any in return.

 

You see, this is one of the things I really don't get, if y'all really, really hate the developers that much and think the game's only getting worse, then why don't you just quit it? Go play something else, like I did? Because if any of you were honestly worried about the state of the game, you'd voice your dissatisfaction in a civilized way, that they could deal with without going to the police. And if they don't listen to the player's feedback, then again, why are you here? Just leave bruh



EzioAuditore1456 #46 Posted Mar 01 2021 - 23:55

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View PostWaylandie, on Mar 01 2021 - 19:16, said:

OP, nobody asked for this change.  For three years people have been asking for new maps, and balance work done to older tanks.  We've gotten a few tweaks and 1 new map.  So yea, there is some hatred and anger directed at WG. 

As for the crew 2.0, you're kidding yourself if you think this is going to change anything for the better.  I played on the sandbox, with my STRV I was able to stack abilities to increase my chance to destroy modules or kill crew by 18%, have a 4.5 reload time because of adrenaline rush and how that is broken, with the rapid fire perk I had no bloom on firing and I was still able to keep my %65 camo rating and because my crew had so much XP, my handling bonus was %10.  I was averaging 5-6k damage and around 14 modules or crew killed per game.  For me that is a huge improvement, put that tank in the hands of the really good players and they will wreck entire teams.  

It gets even worse when you look at the group tactics they are putting into the game, just wait until you see three clanmates in Chieftains with the group tactic buffs stacked up.  These changes are going to destroy pubs, and make the matches damn near unplayable.  

 

Again, not asking for this change doesn't really mean anything. How many people asked for equipment 2.0? Now, how many people complained about not having any real choices for equipment? The fact that this wasn't the player's main concern doesn't mean it gets to stay the same. Besides, there's like, 15 maps in supertest as we speak, so you can hardly say they ain't listening to our demands.

 

And as I pointed out before, I never said the system was perfect, just that this is a step in the right direction, numerical things like numbers of points, skill bonuses and XP conversion can all easily be tweaked. Y'all acting like there's absolutely nothing to do but to completely scrap the whole system just because y'all too lazy to give feedback on how to better balance it



EzioAuditore1456 #47 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 00:02

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View PostBadkarma, on Mar 01 2021 - 19:38, said:

This is your mistake...they aren't trying to improve the game, they're trying to make more money from it, which is fine as long as we don't get hosed in the process. I don't hate anybody at WG but this really seems like the proverbial "money grab". Think about it, if I have as many battles as I do, how many tank lines am I grinding at this point, how many crews do I need to train or retrain, how many more premiums do I need? As the playerbase continues to shrink for WG (I didn't say WOT was dying but #s are down) they need to come up with new ways to generate income and this is one of them.

 

If they truly wanted to implement changes to the crew system to make the game better they could keep the current system, give SS to all new commanders, get rid of partially trained new crews, scrap a few useless crew skills and add a few more useful ones for the current meta and then done, easy! But no, they come up with some overly complicated, messy system that truly only "improves" one thing...WG's bottom line. If you truly pay attention and watch videos from QB, Sahm Lockheart, etc. you'll that the losses we will suffer are very, very real; losses in terms of credits/gold and the ability to seal club will get even greater given the larger disparity between the crews of some folks and new(er) players. Crew 2.0 is bad for this game in every way other than giving away SS to all new commanders; that's the ONLY "improvement" in crew 2.0.

 

Just a quick point I forgot to mention as I was replying (although what you're saying also applies to how they can simply tweak those bonuses and XP conversions), but I believe one of the biggest problems they see with the current crew system is that it's a complete mess depending on which lines and tanks you're grinding.

 

Like the German scouts, the tier 6 has 5 crew members, the tier 7 and 8 have 3, the tier 9 has 4 and the tier 10 has 3 again. They want to eliminate this kind of problem, and honestly, I can't until to use those 40 radio operators I have lying around (not even gonna mention picking pretty much always the same perks)



Waylandie #48 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 02:43

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View PostEzioAuditore1456, on Mar 01 2021 - 23:55, said:

 

Again, not asking for this change doesn't really mean anything. How many people asked for equipment 2.0? Now, how many people complained about not having any real choices for equipment? The fact that this wasn't the player's main concern doesn't mean it gets to stay the same. Besides, there's like, 15 maps in supertest as we speak, so you can hardly say they ain't listening to our demands.

 

And as I pointed out before, I never said the system was perfect, just that this is a step in the right direction, numerical things like numbers of points, skill bonuses and XP conversion can all easily be tweaked. Y'all acting like there's absolutely nothing to do but to completely scrap the whole system just because y'all too lazy to give feedback on how to better balance it

It does need to be scrapped, it's not going to do anything that they claim.  They're not even giving a correct value for the change.

And there have been maps in the supertest for years, none of them roll out.  But hey, the boomer is here to tell everyone how things should be and we should just respect him and the people making the game.  You attitude and the attitude of the developers is why games take huge hits and die.  



ARCHERSFALCON #49 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 02:55

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I tried the sandbox thing, once and that was enough for me. Chose E50 tier 9. Now who has the time in an eve to read and understand all that BS on what all that means. So, I chose a few, 3 commanders etc. This should be all that needs to be understood. My E50 was not the same, not better but worse. Reload time went from 7.76 to 8.98 seconds. That tells me my tank was worse off with this new update. Now, bear in mind that's what I found initially. Who knows what I didn't notice. Also, how long is it going to take to redo every single tank I have. 1 year perhaps. Please what made this even worth the effort in the first place. 10 years of work thrown right out the door. If it makes it to an update. 

Edited by ARCHERSFALCON, Mar 02 2021 - 02:57.


SquishySupreme #50 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 07:52

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View PostLpBronco, on Mar 01 2021 - 23:41, said:

Unintended consequences, like a 183 bouncing off 17mm of armor only on a scale even WG has to be scared of... I'm really curious what the Russian reaction to these changes are 'cause some of those boys have some crews. Little disappointed to think that the 6 perk crews, i have (just shy 7) wouldn't be considered top of class.

And this is the real insult.  It should be 3 skil crews are max, everyone can max quickly ( especially new players ), and re-training skills should be free.  
Even QB with pretty much every tank in the game, ever, only had enough top end crews to make about a dozen 75 point crews.  Out of *600*+ fully trained tanks in the current system. 
In the new system, you can select 7 1/2 skills, plus 2 special ones.  Let's call it 10.  Or the equivalent of a 4 crew tank with 3 skills each and a 0 skil commander.  (6th sense, BIA, and 2 more skills per crew member).
They expect 6 skill crews to be max, yet the math maxes out at 9.5 skills (75 points), or the equivalent of a 3 skil crew. 

Absolutely it is a nerf.  Big enough to make most long term players simply leave, IMO, because you just erased 5-6 years of work due to how limiting and stingy WG is on limits and conversion.



HoustonV #51 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 10:48

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Being just a mediocre player who ground my way up the tech trees and never switched crews I found the sandbox too difficult to grasp. I watched the quickguy video and his first statement was it took him 5 hours of study to grasp the concept, more like 50 for me. How will this help bring in more players?

icbrainy #52 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 12:24

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View PostHoustonV, on Mar 02 2021 - 09:48, said:

Being just a mediocre player who ground my way up the tech trees and never switched crews I found the sandbox too difficult to grasp. I watched the quickguy video and his first statement was it took him 5 hours of study to grasp the concept, more like 50 for me. How will this help bring in more players?

 

Short answer: likely would not.

 

It's kinda ironic that for the most of the game's lifetime you had to pay...what...50 gold to change one crew member's name and appearance in which it has no bearing on gameplay whatsoever?



EzioAuditore1456 #53 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 13:50

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View PostWaylandie, on Mar 01 2021 - 22:43, said:

It does need to be scrapped, it's not going to do anything that they claim.  They're not even giving a correct value for the change.

And there have been maps in the supertest for years, none of them roll out.  But hey, the boomer is here to tell everyone how things should be and we should just respect him and the people making the game.  You attitude and the attitude of the developers is why games take huge hits and die.  

 

Ah yes, the old and totally not overused at all argument that the developer's behavior is getting/going to get the game killed. Typical.

 

View PostSquishySupreme, on Mar 02 2021 - 03:52, said:

And this is the real insult.  It should be 3 skil crews are max, everyone can max quickly ( especially new players ), and re-training skills should be free.  
Even QB with pretty much every tank in the game, ever, only had enough top end crews to make about a dozen 75 point crews.  Out of *600*+ fully trained tanks in the current system. 
In the new system, you can select 7 1/2 skills, plus 2 special ones.  Let's call it 10.  Or the equivalent of a 4 crew tank with 3 skills each and a 0 skil commander.  (6th sense, BIA, and 2 more skills per crew member).
They expect 6 skill crews to be max, yet the math maxes out at 9.5 skills (75 points), or the equivalent of a 3 skil crew. 

Absolutely it is a nerf.  Big enough to make most long term players simply leave, IMO, because you just erased 5-6 years of work due to how limiting and stingy WG is on limits and conversion.

 

Just because they're keen on a conversion rate doesn't mean it doesn't get to be changed, after all they introduced blueprints without increasing the amount of XP to grind the tanks. Buncha people mad because the current conversion rate is wrong while completely ignoring it can easily be changed. They're losing their minds over absolutely nothing.

 

And no, if you really think this is capable of making most long term players leave, you either haven't been around for long enough or you should really stop taking what all the whiners claim seriously



wildcat18 #54 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 14:13

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Ezio..... This crew 2.0 was not a slightly OP tank or small tweak to something. This was a major change that when looked into further by players and some CC's was a complete disaster. Players could understand a small change that effected the game. But this is something they knew was a major game changer that created more gap's in the game than ever before. I can imagine some snickers along the way as this was presented. To me, this is a clear insult to the player base intelligence. I don't know about you, but I don't like having my intelligence insulted.

bake3020 #55 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 15:48

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View PostEzioAuditore1456, on Feb 28 2021 - 23:21, said:

First things first, I barely ever browse the forums, let alone post in it. The amount of toxicity in here is enough to keep me posted by third party sites, so don't expect me to be a recognizable face. Second, although I usually don't care about the forums or the people in it, I've been seeing the same pattern of behavior for long enough to drop some truths many of you won't like to hear, and the first one is this: you're being a bunch of [edited]towards the developers.
 
I won't write a sappy story about my history with this game or how meaningful it's been to my life, all you need to know is that I joined it, played it a lot, quit and came back some time ago. So yeah, instead of whining about how the game sucked, I stopped playing it and when I came back I deemed the game worthy enough of my time to keep playing it. How dare I do such a mature, reasonable thing, amirite? Well, anyway.
 
Allow me to say this in no uncertain terms: I love Crew 2.0. I love how it's being made so you'll have more choices, I love how it's being planned to allow more unique gameplay, and I certainly love the amount of simplicity and complexity put in a balanced mix that I haven't seen in a long time in this game. Now, I really do share several of your concerns about the current iteration of this system, particularly how you grind several crews for several lines and some of them are gonna become pretty much useless in those Nations with several lines of the same class, like having 5 different, high quality crews for all the 5 different Soviet heavies, or with completely different gameplay among the same class that wouldn't benefit from a shared crew, like the German destroyer lines. Thing is, that doesn't give y'all the right to behave like a bunch of apes.
 
Apparently, the sheer hate for the developers, regardless of how hard they've been trying to improve the game, listen to our demands and redesign core gameplay aspects, is enough to make you completely ignore the fact that this is simply a sandbox run, a testing ground, a mere indicator of something might or might not come. I can't help but think someone that doesn't understand the difference between the common test and the sandbox server is particularly stupid, but even then, if those changes were slated for the next patch, personally attacking and threatening the developers ain't the way to go.
 
Like, I'd really like to agree with someone that thinks the current iteration needs to be tweaked and further testing needs to be done (although this is definitely a step in the right direction), but nearly all I'm seeing is people being top grade [edited]because they don't like the change, as if they're incapable of expressing themselves without being absolute wankers, several of them complaining about spending countless hours and dollars into the game as if that gave them the exclusive right to pick the game's future (I started playing this game back when I couldn't afford buying a garage slot with gold, mind you), ignoring that for a large chunk of the players, including me, these changes are mostly positive. Yes, I also have several hours into the game and a rather good amount of money spent into it. Yes, I also have dozens of tanks in my garage and several crews with 3 or 4, even 5 skills. Yes, I also think that we should be given more points or a better conversion rate. Yes, I definitely think we should be able to convert unused crew members into XP regardless of level. No, I don't think sending death threats to the developers is alright.
 
So, instead of going bat[edited] over changes that ain't even here yet - although you do need to be rather dumb to believe they'd bother going through such a complete system rework and never implement it in any way - maybe, just maybe, you could be civilized humans beings and expose your disagreement with the current iteration of testing in a respectful, appropriate manner so the developers can focus on bettering the system and tweaking what's in need of some adjustments? Y'know, just saying.
 
PS: don't even bother thinking I'm gonna waste my time replying to your hateful rhetoric and disgraceful jokes, I'm just gonna take whatever money you think wargaming certainly must have given me and do something I actually enjoy doing instead of doing something I don't enjoy and constantly [edited]about it

View PostEzioAuditore1456, on Feb 28 2021 - 23:21, said:

First things first, I barely ever browse the forums, let alone post in it. The amount of toxicity in here is enough to keep me posted by third party sites, so don't expect me to be a recognizable face. Second, although I usually don't care about the forums or the people in it, I've been seeing the same pattern of behavior for long enough to drop some truths many of you won't like to hear, and the first one is this: you're being a bunch of [edited]towards the developers.
 
I won't write a sappy story about my history with this game or how meaningful it's been to my life, all you need to know is that I joined it, played it a lot, quit and came back some time ago. So yeah, instead of whining about how the game sucked, I stopped playing it and when I came back I deemed the game worthy enough of my time to keep playing it. How dare I do such a mature, reasonable thing, amirite? Well, anyway.
 
Allow me to say this in no uncertain terms: I love Crew 2.0. I love how it's being made so you'll have more choices, I love how it's being planned to allow more unique gameplay, and I certainly love the amount of simplicity and complexity put in a balanced mix that I haven't seen in a long time in this game. Now, I really do share several of your concerns about the current iteration of this system, particularly how you grind several crews for several lines and some of them are gonna become pretty much useless in those Nations with several lines of the same class, like having 5 different, high quality crews for all the 5 different Soviet heavies, or with completely different gameplay among the same class that wouldn't benefit from a shared crew, like the German destroyer lines. Thing is, that doesn't give y'all the right to behave like a bunch of apes.
 
Apparently, the sheer hate for the developers, regardless of how hard they've been trying to improve the game, listen to our demands and redesign core gameplay aspects, is enough to make you completely ignore the fact that this is simply a sandbox run, a testing ground, a mere indicator of something might or might not come. I can't help but think someone that doesn't understand the difference between the common test and the sandbox server is particularly stupid, but even then, if those changes were slated for the next patch, personally attacking and threatening the developers ain't the way to go.
 
Like, I'd really like to agree with someone that thinks the current iteration needs to be tweaked and further testing needs to be done (although this is definitely a step in the right direction), but nearly all I'm seeing is people being top grade [edited]because they don't like the change, as if they're incapable of expressing themselves without being absolute wankers, several of them complaining about spending countless hours and dollars into the game as if that gave them the exclusive right to pick the game's future (I started playing this game back when I couldn't afford buying a garage slot with gold, mind you), ignoring that for a large chunk of the players, including me, these changes are mostly positive. Yes, I also have several hours into the game and a rather good amount of money spent into it. Yes, I also have dozens of tanks in my garage and several crews with 3 or 4, even 5 skills. Yes, I also think that we should be given more points or a better conversion rate. Yes, I definitely think we should be able to convert unused crew members into XP regardless of level. No, I don't think sending death threats to the developers is alright.
 
So, instead of going bat[edited] over changes that ain't even here yet - although you do need to be rather dumb to believe they'd bother going through such a complete system rework and never implement it in any way - maybe, just maybe, you could be civilized humans beings and expose your disagreement with the current iteration of testing in a respectful, appropriate manner so the developers can focus on bettering the system and tweaking what's in need of some adjustments? Y'know, just saying.
 
PS: don't even bother thinking I'm gonna waste my time replying to your hateful rhetoric and disgraceful jokes, I'm just gonna take whatever money you think wargaming certainly must have given me and do something I actually enjoy doing instead of doing something I don't enjoy and constantly [edited]about it


Why?  They don't even show their player base any respect whatsoever.  They act like they can do us any old way they want and we will still support them.  Some of you are stupid enough to do just that but not me.  This SCREW 2.0 is one of the worst ideas they've ever had except for RUBICON.  This is nothing more than a poorly timed, covered, and advertised money grab because they don't know how to budget.  If they can't then maybe this game does need to close down.



NugNugget #56 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 16:31

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I just want whoever thought playing an obnoxious noise at every kill message would be a good idea fired. Out of a cannon. Into the sun.

I haven't even had a chance to look at the crew stuff yet.


Edited by SuperUltraMegaKaren, Mar 02 2021 - 16:33.


vamp_13 #57 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 18:37

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shut the fk up! LOOK, YOU PLAY A GAME, YOU LIKE IT, YOU STICK WITH IT, the changes MAKE THE GAME not WHAT YOU CAME FOR, not what you stayed for! so f u c k the 2.0 AND any loser WHO SAYS one POSITIVE SYLLABLE ABOUT IT, fk you for 2.0 I HOPE WOT PAID YOU ENOUGH TO LIE TO US LIKE THAT

Waylandie #58 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 19:08

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View PostEzioAuditore1456, on Mar 02 2021 - 13:50, said:

 

Ah yes, the old and totally not overused at all argument that the developer's behavior is getting/going to get the game killed. Typical.

 

 

Just because they're keen on a conversion rate doesn't mean it doesn't get to be changed, after all they introduced blueprints without increasing the amount of XP to grind the tanks. Buncha people mad because the current conversion rate is wrong while completely ignoring it can easily be changed. They're losing their minds over absolutely nothing.

 

And no, if you really think this is capable of making most long term players leave, you either haven't been around for long enough or you should really stop taking what all the whiners claim seriously

You have clearly no idea what you're talking about.  Bad developer decisions, have absolutely killed games in no time at all.  There have been games with more money invested in them then WoT that have decimated their player base to the point the game was shut down.  

You haven't played the 2.0 system, and it's obvious that you have spent no time learning about it.  You just came on here and told everyone they need to sit down, shut up and listen/respect the developers.  If you think that long term players who  have spent 1000s of hours and 1000s of dollars won't walk away when they get screwed, you are delusion.  What you fail to realize is that these guys work for the players, so go ahead and piss off your client base and screw them out of everything they worked for.  See how many stick around to invest another couple years and 1000s of dollars into your game after basically getting a reset.



EzioAuditore1456 #59 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 19:25

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View Postwildcat18, on Mar 02 2021 - 10:13, said:

Ezio..... This crew 2.0 was not a slightly OP tank or small tweak to something. This was a major change that when looked into further by players and some CC's was a complete disaster. Players could understand a small change that effected the game. But this is something they knew was a major game changer that created more gap's in the game than ever before. I can imagine some snickers along the way as this was presented. To me, this is a clear insult to the player base intelligence. I don't know about you, but I don't like having my intelligence insulted.

 

Hence the fact that the current iteration positives are being overlooked in favor of the negatives, which is understandable considering several people fear changes. Nothing justifies all the uncivilized behavior though.

 

View Postbake3020, on Mar 02 2021 - 11:48, said:


Why?  They don't even show their player base any respect whatsoever.  They act like they can do us any old way they want and we will still support them.  Some of you are stupid enough to do just that but not me.  This SCREW 2.0 is one of the worst ideas they've ever had except for RUBICON.  This is nothing more than a poorly timed, covered, and advertised money grab because they don't know how to budget.  If they can't then maybe this game does need to close down.

 

This is sounding old already, if you really think they act like that, then why don't you go spend your time and money in a game with developers that actually care about their game and their players? Don't get me wrong, but there's someone here that sounds stupid and it ain't me.

 

View PostSuperUltraMegaKaren, on Mar 02 2021 - 12:31, said:

I just want whoever thought playing an obnoxious noise at every kill message would be a good idea fired. Out of a cannon. Into the sun.

I haven't even had a chance to look at the crew stuff yet.

 

Fair point, the sound bugs are usually a mess (bonus points for the electric tank sound bug tho)



icbrainy #60 Posted Mar 02 2021 - 20:06

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View PostEzioAuditore1456, on Mar 02 2021 - 18:25, said:

Hence the fact that the current iteration positives are being overlooked in favor of the negatives, which is understandable considering several people fear changes. Nothing justifies all the uncivilized behavior though.

 

On the contrary, it is justified, and for two reasons:

 

One, if we do things in a overtly-soft manner, then we nor them won't be able to quantify, let alone have irrefutable evidence, the strength of our views on how we really feel about something.

 

Two, if Wargaming continues on its current course of giving people a hard time, knowingly or not, then they rightly deserve all the flak and our negative views towards them, as clear consequences.

 

gave KRZYboop a bollocking for wrongly telling us what we should and shouldn't be worried about, and he rightly deserved it because its not up to him or any other employee how we should react to something, because that is completely against the foundational principle of gather customer feedback. In all honesty, I don't think he or those at Minsk understands the gravity of how things really do look at-present.

 

If they want the environment to change in a positive manner, well, the ball is on their side of the court to make it happen; but, instead of serving aces, they have been making one egregious bad serve after another. Boy this is no deuce here...





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