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Attention! Sandbox survey results are in!

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KRZYBooP #1 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 21:43

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Howdy Boom Jockeys!

 

Thanks again for your honest and constructive feedback. 

Devs:
"Preliminary Results
The preliminary survey results and direct feedback revealed the proposed changes did not receive the approval we were expecting from the community. Many players pointed out the need for significant changes and improvements to Crew 2.0. Some players agree with the idea of changing the crew, but they still have several concerns regarding the proposed version. Part of the player base did not like the concept at all, and their feedback largely consists of the same prior concerns."
 

The results of the test are in and can be found HERE.



_Tsavo_ #2 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 21:48

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6th for everyone?  Good -great- do this regardless of whether else you guys do, default 6th should have been mandatory years ago

 

Retrain to multiple tanks?  Good*

 

*but not good at 750 gold

 

 

Trying to emulate Floaty Botes style of captain skill tree?   BAD BAD BAD

 

 

Rather, reset all crew skills, maintain experience, add perks and skills to available per vehicle.   

 

 

Things I'm not sure about: how to handle different crew member counts between tanks for retraining

 

Single commander or current multiple crew members system? 

 

 

 


Edited by _Tsavo_, Mar 06 2021 - 18:50.


Altwar #3 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 21:59

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I still want my crew records kept.  Battles played, medals earned!

Cowcat137 #4 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 22:01

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heavymetal1967 #5 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 22:22

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View Postrokinamerica, on Mar 05 2021 - 15:48, said:


Just FYI, it is yous guys, not just yous.

 

Way to shoot the messenger there too. 
 

Anyway, thanks for the update KB. Works for me.

 

Ditto on shooting the messenger.  As if BooP or anyone at NA is gonna go in and tell the Soviet overlords how to handle their business.  Not to mention the news is, at least in my opinion, good news.

 

And had they had the ok to put out their "own" version of the article then there would be folks on here crying about why is NA saying this when EU or RU/CIS stated this in their article. 

 

And again keep in mind what CowCat "said" folks.

 

Block Quote

 

What's Next?

 

We're processing all the data collected in the Sandbox. We'll review it in detail, and then try to develop solutions that address concerns and bring satisfaction for all types of players. Depending on the results of this work, we’ll decide on a possible second iteration of testing Crew 2.0 on the Sandbox server. We’ll keep you informed of all details.

 

Once again, thank you for participating in the life of the game. It's your feedback and suggestions that help us work out various ideas and ultimately make World of Tanks better.

 

And of course since Rok is quoted. ;)
 

It's RA's fault.  :D

 



DrWho_ #6 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 22:24

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There's one major point that I don't see mentioned and which concerns me a bit as that's something that will make me leave this game

The commander and their specialisation bonuses, that is such a major ..... P2W element if you will, that would create a huge gap between those who have it, either by playing their crews for years and years or simply purchasing gold -> credits-> crew books, and those who don't. Today's skill system doesn't really create that huge gap because while some skills are "needed" you're more or less levelling out at around 4 skills and most players can get there, getting a 75 point commander with top level specialisation .... not so much

 

That said good on WG for listening



_W_R_A_I_T_H_ #7 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 22:25

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Mar 05 2021 - 21:48, said:

6th for everyone?  Good -great- do this regardless of whether else you, default 6th should have been mandatory years ago

 

Retrain to multiple tanks?  Good*

 

Trying to emulate Floaty Botes style of captain skill tree?   BAD BAD BAD

 

Rather, reset all crew skills, maintain experience, add perks and skills to available per vehicle.   

 

Things I'm not sure about: how to handle different crew member counts between tanks for retraining

 

I don't understand why WG will NOT evolved the current system.  Even if they are H*LL bent on Crew 2.0, why not evolve the current system?  I agree I do not like WOWS's one captain system.  In fact, I HATE IT.

 

SIXTH SENSE:

Give all commanders sixth sense next patch, even though I don't think this is that important.  All us veteran's dealt with it so why not the new guys and we dealt with it WITHOUT directives so WG has already made it easier for new players? 

 

CREWS ON MULTIPLE TANKS:

WG could very easily allow each crew member to be trained on two tanks or three or however many WG wants so add this to the game next patch, but we know WG only added this to Crew 2.0 to try and make us buy it (this ain't in WOWS's). 

 

NEW CREW SKILLS:

Start adding new crew skills next patch maybe one per patch for the rest of the year.

 

REALISM:

I like realism, but then we have Type 59 GOLD, QILIN, Wheelies, and Japanese Heavy paper tanks which could not drive cross-country in real life because they are to heavy, so, give smaller tanks more rounds so lack of ammo is not a balancing factor and take away or add crew members to certain tanks to even out the lines so you don't need one radio operator for just one tank in a line (just remove it from that tank). 

 

 

 

The current crew system is NOT hated by the players unlike ARTY which WG won't nerf, and wheelies which WG has not nerfed enough, or OP tier 10 tanks like 279E and Chieftan and lastly maps which WG seems to be trying to fix with several more on the horizon.  Instead of completely revamping crews which the players don't hate, please just evolve it as described above and keep your focus on new maps (thanks), rebalancing tanks (thanks), nerfing arty (PLEASE), nerfing wheelies and nerfing OP tanks.    

 

I did not mention GOLD rounds because I think the game is so balanced around them that any changes to them may break the game.  

 

 


Edited by _W_R_A_I_T_H_, Mar 05 2021 - 22:27.


rokinamerica #8 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 22:25

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Very nice set HM. As always I can count on yous guys to bring the right tunes to the party. Hope you and yours are all still doing well. Always great to lose a few hours running thru you all’s music. 

ff8ff8 #9 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 22:25

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Just make 6th sense as a default with a 4 second timer. If you train the skill it goes down to 3 seconds, and directives another 1 second.
Remove the mentor skill so people never fall into the trap of thinking it is useful.

Bam, all crew issues are now fixed.

Gryphon_ #10 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 22:38

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The idea of having the commander represent the whole crew makes sense. The rest of it didn't.

 

In particular, we need to be able to retrain tank to tank with credits for only a minor xp loss, like now, not a major loss, like crew 2.0 proposed.

 

Most of the new 'skills' in crew 2.0 don't seem to add any real value.

 

Most of all, we cannot tolerate stacking of certain skills to levels that break the game - ie Quickbaby's demo of the EBR105 with 60% camo. No, no, hell no.


Edited by Gryphon_, Mar 05 2021 - 22:40.


_W_R_A_I_T_H_ #11 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 23:07

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Mentor Commander For every 1% of the Training Level of the Commander's Mentor Skill, all crew members except the Commander himself, receive an amount of 0.1% additional experience at the end of every battle, up to a maximum of 10% each when the Mentor Skill reaches 100%. If the Commander's Mentor Skill Training Level increases during the battle, the crew will benefit from the increase.

Useful on any tank you plan to keep indefinitely.

Edited by _W_R_A_I_T_H_, Mar 05 2021 - 23:16.


tod914 #12 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 23:29

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Big thanks Boop.  As well as your team for forwarding our concerns and feedback to HQ.

 

There are some good ideas in 2.0, that could easily benefit our current crew system.

 

1. Crews starting off at 100%, coupled with 6th sense for new commanders, like others have mentioned.

2.  Being able to convert crews into crew books.  Would be an excellent feature.

3.  Being able to use the same crew without penalty in multiple tanks.  Kind of crew layout dependent, but that's ok.  I don't mind paying some gold for that.  Would have to give it some thought regarding reasonable pricing.

4.  Some of the new skills were interesting, and could be easily implemented as well. 

 

A decent buff would be good for crews.  A complete rework is not needed.  If they are set on 2.0 in the future, maybe do it in stages.

 

I'll just add this too.  In a recent post I read, someone mentioned converting tech tree tanks into Premiums.  Thought that was an excellent idea, if it's plausible.

 

 

 


Edited by tod914, Mar 05 2021 - 23:32.


Jaguarz #13 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 23:33

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View Post_W_R_A_I_T_H_, on Mar 05 2021 - 22:25, said:

 

I don't understand why WG will NOT evolved the current system.  Even if they are H*LL bent on Crew 2.0, why not evolve the current system?  I agree I do not like WOWS's one captain system.  In fact, I HATE IT.

 

 

 

 

Whats not to understand? They dont work to bring fun and excellence to the people, they work to make money, they tried and failed with P2W emblems in Rubicon so went back and someone else took a stab at it with this crew 2.0 mess. Its about money and extracting more of it from people, nothing else.



Emmablitz #14 Posted Mar 05 2021 - 23:43

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Not a pardon just a stay of execution .

Rod999 #15 Posted Mar 06 2021 - 00:48

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It's a shame we're stuck with this crew system.  It is so idiotic to have to use a skill on all your crew members to get 1 benefit.  Think BIA.  If you want full camo or repairs lets tie up more of your skills.  If it is a 5 person crew then you have to burn 15 skills to actually get 3.  Commanders and drivers still have the widest selection of usable skills while other crewmen have 2 or 3 that are worth having. 

     Crew 2.0 needed a bunch of work but it is better than what we are dealing with now.  New players still aren't competitive with experienced players.  Players can still buy and install a bunch of crew books onto their crews so it is still a pay to win system we have now.  If I want to reset skills now it costs me 800 gold for a 4 man crew vehicle.  If I reset with credits it would cost me around 320,000 XP per crewman for a 4 skill crew. 

     There are meta set-ups currently as there would be in crew 2.0 but it is much easier currently to have everything without having to make choices.  Do I want a mega sniper or full camo?  Currently I can have both, just need to buy some crew books.  Every player would need to decide how to set up his tank in 2.0 and make choices that would help or hinder his tank  and live with them.   

     No matter what Wargaming will try with the crew system players will cry, complain and say that they are leaving the game.  Currently players only care if they think a change will help or hurt them, not if a change would actually be better for all that play the game.  There does need to be some balancing done with crew 2.0 for sure.  I hope that Wargaming does try to make the new system work, otherwise leave the crap system as it is because that is what many seem to want.


Edited by Rod999, Mar 06 2021 - 02:33.


Mikosah #16 Posted Mar 06 2021 - 00:53

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Just for the record, the problems with the current system are very simple and straightforward. The obvious one is the sixth sense situation, which could be solved a number of ways and simply making it a default feature is certainly one of them. Another is the nastiness of grinding <100% trained crews, and moving those crews from one tank to another (though truthfully, the answer to these issues is simply to train/retrain with gold). True that the sandbox proposal did solve all of these problems, let's be clear about that. And yes, there are some current crew skills that are never used and for good reason.

 

So why did this test end so badly? For a very simple reason- that all of the above could have been solved just by making small tweaks to the current system. Switching to an entirely new system was uncalled for, unnecessary, counterproductive, and to be frank, sloppily proposed. The whole process of crew conversion is a massive risk to take on, and should have only been attempted as the last of last ditch resorts at the extremes of desperate necessity. And here it was tossed about senselessly for no particular reason at all.



Cowcat137 #17 Posted Mar 06 2021 - 01:34

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They could give 6th sense for all tomorrow if they wanted to

 



madogthefirst #18 Posted Mar 06 2021 - 03:01

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Mar 05 2021 - 12:48, said:

Trying to emulate Floaty Botes style of captain skill tree?   BAD BAD BAD

Very much this.



FrozenKemp #19 Posted Mar 06 2021 - 16:23

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Mar 05 2021 - 15:48, said:

Things I'm not sure about: how to handle different crew member counts between tanks for retraining

 

Single commander or current multiple crew members system? 

 

Because of the crew member counts I don't see multiple tanks working ... well, if one insisted on sticking with the current crew system, then yes, it could work: you would have to train each individual crew member to multiple tanks. Then when you 'returned' the crew to a different tank it would just pull them over. It would leave us with the issue that some tanks have radio operators and some don't, and all that stuff.

 

But if you do go to single commander then the existing crew skill system doesn't work. 

 

But the skill system could be simpler and a lot closer to what exists in WoT now: 

* get rid of the five different categories and the Talents or whatever they were called

* skills which currently work based on the "average" of the crew are turned into multiple skills (let's assume 4). e.g Repair I gives 25% repair effectiveness, Repair II gives 50%, etc. This makes repair (and camo) take the same investment and have the same effect as current

* tweak some of the skills to be more useful and drop others (like the radio skills no one uses)

* the aim in conversion should be that the number of skills that a crew should have would be identical in this system... assuming there were 4 crew members...

 

Oh man. I don't know how you would deal with conversion of crews that currently have 5 or even 6 crew members, to a single commander system. No matter how you slice it I think those crews are going to end up with fewer skills.  I guess a better thing to do would be to assume 5 crew members is standard. 

 



SparkyGT #20 Posted Mar 06 2021 - 18:02

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I have almost 360 tanks in garage, and it will be a month or so plus of fooling around retraining everything, loss of special crews? sixth sense is a must for me, so getting new players in it will be good.  And for those that complain about new players not having enough skills, its because the rest of us suffered as we ground through tanks in thousands and thousands of battles.  Yes im one of those guys who bought a tier 8 premium lowe after playing for a few days, and i sucked in it because of it. thats the way it goes.

 

Spending thousands of gold on training and retraining that could be lost is a slap in the face.







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