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Aiming and firing spg with mini map


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Sgt_Bash999 #1 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 00:49

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Since arty haters gripe about spgs having the "advantage of sattlelite view", i had this idea of them aiming and fireing via the mini map only. It would work like "pinging" on the mini map but its to aim and fire. Good idea? Or would that be too problematic? 

 

Anyone's evaluation would be appreciated.



Reppic27 #2 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 00:58

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I mean, this sums up what might happen. 



Maniac57c #3 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 00:58

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I have occasionally hit shots aimed with the minimap, but it would not be practical in game use. 

bake3020 #4 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 02:17

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View PostSgt_Bash999, on Apr 07 2021 - 23:49, said:

Since arty haters gripe about spgs having the "advantage of sattlelite view", i had this idea of them aiming and fireing via the mini map only. It would work like "pinging" on the mini map but its to aim and fire. Good idea? Or would that be too problematic? 

 

Anyone's evaluation would be appreciated.


Just no.  The whiny brats just need to leave the game and never come back.  That's the best solution to the p roblem.



Zugh #5 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 03:11

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This is a good idea. I know this isn't a simulation game but this solution would give artillery a role much closer to how it is in real life. 

tod914 #6 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 05:05

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View PostZugh, on Apr 07 2021 - 21:11, said:

This is a good idea. I know this isn't a simulation game but this solution would give artillery a role much closer to how it is in real life. 

 

Make them go through the whole Call for Fire mission before they can shoot. 



Buddha1369 #7 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 05:52

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View PostZugh, on Apr 08 2021 - 03:11, said:

This is a good idea. I know this isn't a simulation game but this solution would give artillery a role much closer to how it is in real life. 

And are you going to give up the invisible, camera-equipped spy drone floating over your tank?  No?  Ok then.



SlappedbyRommel #8 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 12:30

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Damn that was a big screen 

Bad_Oedipus #9 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 14:14

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Yesterday I had a pleasure being SPG focus... 2x Obj 261 and Batchat 155 58.  I had a nice cover, so their shells rarely hit, when they did, it was for less than 100 damage at a time.  Lucky for me, my team was very good at loosing quickly... 

1stOregonVolCavalry #10 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 14:22

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When I first started on WOT and read all the controversy over arty I didn't fully understand until I saw videos of the God View spotting capability they enjoyed. How about limiting the arty God View and making spotting even more valuable?

 

Grey out any area on the God View that a friendly tank does not have direct fire view range vision on. No friendly within direct view range, gray. Area in direct fire view range, but behind a hill or building or valley, gray.

 

Except make wheelies always lit in God View:)


Edited by 1stOregonVolCavalry, Apr 08 2021 - 14:25.


Waarheid #11 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 14:55

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View PostZugh, on Apr 07 2021 - 21:11, said:

This is a good idea. I know this isn't a simulation game but this solution would give artillery a role much closer to how it is in real life. 


In real life there would be 15-20 SPGs lobbing shells into the whole square from one end to the other until everything was destroyed. 

Sounds like a good plan to me. 

Make it happen 

:arta:


Edited by Waarheid, Apr 08 2021 - 14:57.


dunniteowl #12 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 15:58

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View PostSgt_Bash999, on Apr 07 2021 - 17:49, said:

Since arty haters gripe about spgs having the "advantage of sattlelite view", i had this idea of them aiming and fireing via the mini map only. It would work like "pinging" on the mini map but its to aim and fire. Good idea? Or would that be too problematic? 

 

Anyone's evaluation would be appreciated.

 

No.  This is ridiculous. 

 

Now, if it were something similar to what BF1942 did, where the firing Arty was 'using' the viewpoint of the spotting unit, I'd be okay with that.  It would be like firing your SPG by trying to line up the spotter view to your position (and theirs) on the minimap.  I'd be okay with that.  It's how I thought it would work when I first started.  Took me like four games to figure out how to get the Over Head View when I first started.

 

View Post1stOregonVolCavalry, on Apr 08 2021 - 07:22, said:

When I first started on WOT and read all the controversy over arty I didn't fully understand until I saw videos of the God View spotting capability they enjoyed. How about limiting the arty God View and making spotting even more valuable?

 

Grey out any area on the God View that a friendly tank does not have direct fire view range vision on. No friendly within direct view range, gray. Area in direct fire view range, but behind a hill or building or valley, gray.

 

Except make wheelies always lit in God View:)

 

They have an Over Head View as a concession to the fact that this game is much faster paced than actual combat at any level other than infantry assaults, which we simply don't have.

 

However, the highlighted portion is what I'd like to clarify:  They do not ENJOY the spotting from the OV.  They do NOT SPOT unless something is in their View Range and the OV is designed as a concession to the idea that, instead of 4 platoons of 4 SPGs each, tied to a Forward Observer, Spotting Planes and Radio Communications to aid them, none of which are directly represented in the game, they get Over Head View instead showing them ONLY the tanks that their team has spotted.

 

 

I honestly cannot related to the arty hate.  There would be NO tanks with cannons on them if cannons had not come first.  Arty has been here since the days of Siege Engines in the Pre-Roman period of history.  When did tanks show up?  1911 or so.  So they're only about 1,400 years later.

 

Arty has it's place in this game and it should be in it.  There has been NO single armed conflict in modern history that did not include arty.  The concessions to make arty playable at all in this environment are just that, concessions.

 

But all the hate about it not being a 'real' tank in a pixel game of 100% not real ANYTHING is ridiculous in the extreme.  That hate is nothing more than telling you someone gets triggered by it.  That makes me want to play it that much more.

 

If I can play a unit that totally triggers someone and makes them more focused on that than just doing their best?  Psy-Ops for the win, baby.

 

I like all five classes and can't wait until I get a 'stronk' enough computer to go back to playing more than SPGs and slow TDs.  In the meantime, I'm going to do the best I can with the hand I've been dealt.  Right now, that means I'm playing almost nothing other than SPGs, because it's all my craptop can handle and it isn't likely I'll be getting another one, soon.

 

Even so.  SPGs are a 100% valid and playable class in the game and those who want it gone are just spitting sour grapes for what that's worth.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
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WarGanz_87 #13 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 18:29

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View PostZugh, on Apr 07 2021 - 20:11, said:

This is a good idea. I know this isn't a simulation game but this solution would give artillery a role much closer to how it is in real life. 

OK. MOS 13A checking in here. Did it IRL for 6 years + 1 day. If you want IRL, then let arty platoon for the equivalent of DivArty. Give arty smoke & WP rounds to block vision. Give us MRLS to take out a grid square. 
A role just like IRL. 



slayer6 #14 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 18:36

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Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory had exactly the same technique you are describing for its Mortar gameplay:  shots and their impacts were plotted on the map.  It was playable - but the mortars had HUGE blast radii.

 

Battlefield: 1942 had a technique where spotters could confer their viewpoint to artillery on the other side of the map to assist in delivery of ordnance.

 

The first technique could work on the original iteration of the SPGs - extreme damage, with extreme blast radii.  As in a T92 firing a 2500 damage shell with a 19.8m splash radius.

 

The second seems more ideally suited to barrage fire, as the perspectives are skewed.



Oh_Hell #15 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 19:44

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My mini map is less than accurate as to where the enemy is exactly, as well as where my gun is pointing. The only way to offset that would be to seriously increase splash damage. The fix for Arty, in my opinion, is a limit of 2 per side, and track immunity for several seconds after a repair.

skytale #16 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 20:46

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View Post1stOregonVolCavalry, on Apr 08 2021 - 14:22, said:

When I first started on WOT and read all the controversy over arty I didn't fully understand until I saw videos of the God View spotting capability they enjoyed. How about limiting the arty God View and making spotting even more valuable?

 

Grey out any area on the God View that a friendly tank does not have direct fire view range vision on. No friendly within direct view range, gray. Area in direct fire view range, but behind a hill or building or valley, gray.

 

Except make wheelies always lit in God View:)

 

Do you realize that SPG's almost never see their targets themselves? The only time a red tank shows up in God view or direct view is when a green tank has spotted the red tank. If everyone on the arty's team looses vision of the red tank, it disappears from God view and direct view. Unless an SPG is very close to an enemy, it can only see what anyone on his team can see. This is due to SPG's very limited view range and by design.

 

In before someone chimes in - Yes, I know the premium Leafblower is an exception. 

 

 



Blind_Owl #17 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 20:49

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View Postslayer6, on Apr 08 2021 - 12:36, said:

Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory had exactly the same technique you are describing for its Mortar gameplay:  shots and their impacts were plotted on the map.  It was playable - but the mortars had HUGE blast radii.

 

God I miss the heyday of that game ( and the first one).. ..fun times!!



Sgt_Bash999 #18 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 23:15

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View PostOh_Hell, on Apr 08 2021 - 12:44, said:

My mini map is less than accurate as to where the enemy is exactly, as well as where my gun is pointing. The only way to offset that would be to seriously increase splash damage. The fix for Arty, in my opinion, is a limit of 2 per side, and track immunity for several seconds after a repair.

I see what you mean. You'll be stunning allies, and that will turn you into a smurf.



choSenfroZen_1 #19 Posted Apr 09 2021 - 00:59

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View PostBuddha1369, on Apr 07 2021 - 20:52, said:

And are you going to give up the invisible, camera-equipped spy drone floating over your tank?  No?  Ok then.


It is based (being an arcade game) on a few available factors.

-topographical maps.

-ballistic maps

-air photos

-reconnaissance - air recon and spotting

                            - ground recon and spotting.

As a game simplifies system, artillery gets the trajectory view, INSTEAD of the sniper view.

View PostWarGanz_87, on Apr 08 2021 - 09:29, said:

OK. MOS 13A checking in here. Did it IRL for 6 years + 1 day. If you want IRL, then let arty platoon for the equivalent of DivArty. Give arty smoke & WP rounds to block vision. Give us MRLS to take out a grid square. 
A role just like IRL. 

 

Second issue.

As said by Skytale above `-- SPG's almost never see their targets themselves? The only time a red tank shows up in God view or direct view is when a green tank has spotted the red tank.

 

What does it take to block vision.? Something like smoke, restricting vision would take rewriting their entire spotting system.

If an enemy can target me through a bush, or more. Never actually seeing me. Just the red outline.

How would smoke work?

View Post1stOregonVolCavalry, on Apr 08 2021 - 05:22, said:

When I first started on WOT and read all the controversy over arty I didn't fully understand until I saw videos of the God View spotting capability they enjoyed. How about limiting the arty God View and making spotting even more valuable?

 

Grey out any area on the God View that a friendly tank does not have direct fire view range vision on. No friendly within direct view range, gray. Area in direct fire view range, but behind a hill or building or valley, gray.

 

Except make wheelies always lit in God View:)

 

God view spotting capability- does not exist. Only what teammates can see show up.

                                               The only concession is terrain or feature destruction. People want to crush cars with their tanks,

a draw back is someone else can see it.

 

Grey out any area- this already is how it works. When arty is in their strategic view. Once the enemy drops out of the spotters view,

the target drops from the arty`s view as well.


Edited by choSenfroZen_1, Apr 09 2021 - 01:01.


1stOregonVolCavalry #20 Posted Apr 09 2021 - 02:52

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View Postdunniteowl, on Apr 08 2021 - 15:58, said:

 

No.  This is ridiculous. 

 

Now, if it were something similar to what BF1942 did, where the firing Arty was 'using' the viewpoint of the spotting unit, I'd be okay with that.  It would be like firing your SPG by trying to line up the spotter view to your position (and theirs) on the minimap.  I'd be okay with that.  It's how I thought it would work when I first started.  Took me like four games to figure out how to get the Over Head View when I first started.

 

 

They have an Over Head View as a concession to the fact that this game is much faster paced than actual combat at any level other than infantry assaults, which we simply don't have.

 

However, the highlighted portion is what I'd like to clarify:  They do not ENJOY the spotting from the OV.  They do NOT SPOT unless something is in their View Range and the OV is designed as a concession to the idea that, instead of 4 platoons of 4 SPGs each, tied to a Forward Observer, Spotting Planes and Radio Communications to aid them, none of which are directly represented in the game, they get Over Head View instead showing them ONLY the tanks that their team has spotted.

 

 

I honestly cannot related to the arty hate.  There would be NO tanks with cannons on them if cannons had not come first.  Arty has been here since the days of Siege Engines in the Pre-Roman period of history.  When did tanks show up?  1911 or so.  So they're only about 1,400 years later.

 

Arty has it's place in this game and it should be in it.  There has been NO single armed conflict in modern history that did not include arty.  The concessions to make arty playable at all in this environment are just that, concessions.

 

But all the hate about it not being a 'real' tank in a pixel game of 100% not real ANYTHING is ridiculous in the extreme.  That hate is nothing more than telling you someone gets triggered by it.  That makes me want to play it that much more.

 

If I can play a unit that totally triggers someone and makes them more focused on that than just doing their best?  Psy-Ops for the win, baby.

 

I like all five classes and can't wait until I get a 'stronk' enough computer to go back to playing more than SPGs and slow TDs.  In the meantime, I'm going to do the best I can with the hand I've been dealt.  Right now, that means I'm playing almost nothing other than SPGs, because it's all my craptop can handle and it isn't likely I'll be getting another one, soon.

 

Even so.  SPGs are a 100% valid and playable class in the game and those who want it gone are just spitting sour grapes for what that's worth.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO

Good post, especially like the part about replacing the typical battlefield arty support and targeting vehicles and personnel with the God View. To clarify my point about needing a spotter to view the area via the God View, it's not just seeing spotted tanks, but arty can see trees falling and fences going down via invisible tanks.






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