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Some players have better RNG than others?


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jikannaizo #1 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 02:05

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Hey guys, lately with ranked we did a test with one of our players and his son. He consistently plays between a 2k and 2.4k wn8 and has an average 54% win rate but ranked has just done him dirty. His son however has been getting good matches and consistently ranks up. We have all been playing since the third season started and so far trying to play his roll correctly and doing between 2-3.5k combined almost every match has him on the loosing side every game, not moving up or loosing a chevron. His son however wins almost every game he plays and has had no problem advancing. He is doing almost the exact same damage, they are in the same spots playing the same tanks and yet he has consistently better RNG per teams and he has to take fewer shots fully shrunk down or not. He has played his dads account and was having the same problems after 10 ranked matches. So he tried playing his dads account for 10 more matches on his computer and still had the same problem. They then proceeded to have him play on his dads computer with his account for the same amount and had his normal RNG and luck. Then switched back to his PC for the same results on his account. It is the same every day and his son is now in league while his dad is still in third division. They both play at the same wn8 maybe his son has 100 more wn8 than he does on average but they are the same win rate and playstyle. His son can also go into games, get spotted and no one will even look at him a lot of times like you see many of the EU streamers like Dakki have happen at times. Is there just a target wargaming puts over someone's head that says you will have worse RNG for the foreseeable future. I get a lot of this can be construed as anecdotal or circumstantial at best but it seems to happen more often than others. I was hoping someone or a few of the people on the forums could help. Again I get how this sounds and its not proof of anything, just was hoping for some communication as to what might be happening and if some of you have had similar experiences.

Allf #2 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 02:11

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Let me grab my tin foil really quick.

The answer is yes. Some have better RNG than others. Its really strange how Random teams work.


Edited by Allf, Apr 08 2021 - 02:17.


bake3020 #3 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 02:12

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Well, you can thank a certain person who is on the development team that is in charge of this junk called rng.  He's the one who keeps things so screwed up that most people can't stand it.

I_QQ_4_U #4 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 02:13

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No.

Vladimir_K_BestPlayerNA #5 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 02:15

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Depends on how much gold you and your son bought, I'm guesing he bought more recently. Better pay up for that pro RNG!

jikannaizo #6 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 02:19

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Not my son, but he has spent more than his son on this game.

 



Suicidal_Enemy #7 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 02:25

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on Apr 07 2021 - 21:13, said:

No.

 

Oui Skippy :)



jikannaizo #8 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 02:58

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I need to clarify, his son had crap RNG, on his dads account but not on his own account. This is probably the 5th time this has been tested and the results have been the same each time.

 

 


Edited by jikannaizo, Apr 08 2021 - 02:58.


NeatoMan #9 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 03:02

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View Postjikannaizo, on Apr 07 2021 - 20:05, said:

They both play at the same wn8 maybe his son has 100 more wn8 than he does on average but they are the same win rate and playstyle.

Do you think the son is a worse player than the dad? 



CAPTMUDDXX #10 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 03:08

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View Postjikannaizo, on Apr 07 2021 - 20:05, said:

Hey guys, lately with ranked we did a test with one of our players and his son. He consistently plays between a 2k and 2.4k wn8 and has an average 54% win rate but ranked has just done him dirty. His son however has been getting good matches and consistently ranks up. We have all been playing since the third season started and so far trying to play his roll correctly and doing between 2-3.5k combined almost every match has him on the loosing side every game, not moving up or loosing a chevron. His son however wins almost every game he plays and has had no problem advancing. He is doing almost the exact same damage, they are in the same spots playing the same tanks and yet he has consistently better RNG per teams and he has to take fewer shots fully shrunk down or not. He has played his dads account and was having the same problems after 10 ranked matches. So he tried playing his dads account for 10 more matches on his computer and still had the same problem. They then proceeded to have him play on his dads computer with his account for the same amount and had his normal RNG and luck. Then switched back to his PC for the same results on his account. It is the same every day and his son is now in league while his dad is still in third division. They both play at the same wn8 maybe his son has 100 more wn8 than he does on average but they are the same win rate and playstyle. His son can also go into games, get spotted and no one will even look at him a lot of times like you see many of the EU streamers like Dakki have happen at times. Is there just a target wargaming puts over someone's head that says you will have worse RNG for the foreseeable future. I get a lot of this can be construed as anecdotal or circumstantial at best but it seems to happen more often than others. I was hoping someone or a few of the people on the forums could help. Again I get how this sounds and its not proof of anything, just was hoping for some communication as to what might be happening and if some of you have had similar experiences.

nonconstructive spreading blatant baseless falsehoods to stir up trouble on the forum.



uberdice #11 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 03:17

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You can easily test your theory by taking them into a training room in Pz I Cs and having them put 3000 rounds into the hull side of an AMX 50B.

 

That should give you a good sample size of shots with a predictable damage spread, the 50B is just used because it has paper sides and a lot of hp so you don't have to reset the training room as much.

 

Then you just calculate total damage / #penetrations and you'll be able to see if they're within 1 SD of each other.

 

This will let you isolate the results from all the other random factors that would come up during a match.



TeriyakiTanker #12 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 03:19

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View Postjikannaizo, on Apr 07 2021 - 20:05, said:

Hey guys, lately with ranked we did a test with one of our players and his son. He consistently plays between a 2k and 2.4k wn8 and has an average 54% win rate but ranked has just done him dirty. His son however has been getting good matches and consistently ranks up. We have all been playing since the third season started and so far trying to play his roll correctly and doing between 2-3.5k combined almost every match has him on the loosing side every game, not moving up or loosing a chevron. His son however wins almost every game he plays and has had no problem advancing. He is doing almost the exact same damage, they are in the same spots playing the same tanks and yet he has consistently better RNG per teams and he has to take fewer shots fully shrunk down or not. He has played his dads account and was having the same problems after 10 ranked matches. So he tried playing his dads account for 10 more matches on his computer and still had the same problem. They then proceeded to have him play on his dads computer with his account for the same amount and had his normal RNG and luck. Then switched back to his PC for the same results on his account. It is the same every day and his son is now in league while his dad is still in third division. They both play at the same wn8 maybe his son has 100 more wn8 than he does on average but they are the same win rate and playstyle. His son can also go into games, get spotted and no one will even look at him a lot of times like you see many of the EU streamers like Dakki have happen at times. Is there just a target wargaming puts over someone's head that says you will have worse RNG for the foreseeable future. I get a lot of this can be construed as anecdotal or circumstantial at best but it seems to happen more often than others. I was hoping someone or a few of the people on the forums could help. Again I get how this sounds and its not proof of anything, just was hoping for some communication as to what might be happening and if some of you have had similar experiences.


What exactly do you want help with?  Do you expect them to have the same RNG?  You obviously aren’t really telling the truth.... like they are getting the same maps.  Come on that doesn’t make any sense.  So since we know they aren’t getting the same maps, how can they be in the same place doing the same thing?



jikannaizo #13 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 03:26

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View Postuberdice, on Apr 08 2021 - 03:17, said:

You can easily test your theory by taking them into a training room in Pz I Cs and having them put 3000 rounds into the hull side of an AMX 50B.

 

That should give you a good sample size of shots with a predictable damage spread, the 50B is just used because it has paper sides and a lot of hp so you don't have to reset the training room as much.

 

Then you just calculate total damage / #penetrations and you'll be able to see if they're within 1 SD of each other.

 

This will let you isolate the results from all the other random factors that would come up during a match.

Thank you for one of the only constructive feed backs that were posted, this will be a great way to test this out over several times to get a good sample pool. It helps narrow down several of the variables and focuses on a couple of the RNG factors in game.

 



Number_Five_Hargreeves #14 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 03:28

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View Postjikannaizo, on Apr 08 2021 - 02:05, said:

Hey guys, lately with ranked we did a test with one of our players and his son. He consistently plays between a 2k and 2.4k wn8 and has an average 54% win rate but ranked has just done him dirty. His son however has been getting good matches and consistently ranks up. We have all been playing since the third season started and so far trying to play his roll correctly and doing between 2-3.5k combined almost every match has him on the loosing side every game, not moving up or loosing a chevron. His son however wins almost every game he plays and has had no problem advancing. He is doing almost the exact same damage, they are in the same spots playing the same tanks and yet he has consistently better RNG per teams and he has to take fewer shots fully shrunk down or not. He has played his dads account and was having the same problems after 10 ranked matches. So he tried playing his dads account for 10 more matches on his computer and still had the same problem. They then proceeded to have him play on his dads computer with his account for the same amount and had his normal RNG and luck. Then switched back to his PC for the same results on his account. It is the same every day and his son is now in league while his dad is still in third division. They both play at the same wn8 maybe his son has 100 more wn8 than he does on average but they are the same win rate and playstyle. His son can also go into games, get spotted and no one will even look at him a lot of times like you see many of the EU streamers like Dakki have happen at times. Is there just a target wargaming puts over someone's head that says you will have worse RNG for the foreseeable future. I get a lot of this can be construed as anecdotal or circumstantial at best but it seems to happen more often than others. I was hoping someone or a few of the people on the forums could help. Again I get how this sounds and its not proof of anything, just was hoping for some communication as to what might be happening and if some of you have had similar experiences.

 

 

RNG = RANDOM number generator.

Will 2 people have the same rng in the short run? Very unlikely.

Will their RNGs approximate each other after thousands and thousands of battles? Yes.

RANDOM equalizes variables in the long run not in the short run. In the end, everyone's rng is equal not within a week (small sample size).

 

 

Here is an elaboration of the problem of small sample size in statistical analysis: (5) The Small Sample Fallacy - YouTube

 


Edited by Number_Five_Hargreeves, Apr 08 2021 - 03:45.


tod914 #15 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 03:29

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Yes.  In fact, it can rig a loss.

uberdice #16 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 03:35

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View Postjikannaizo, on Apr 08 2021 - 12:26, said:

Thank you for one of the only constructive feed backs that were posted, this will be a great way to test this out over several times to get a good sample pool. It helps narrow down several of the variables and focuses on a couple of the RNG factors in game.

 

Good on you if you actually go ahead and test it instead of screeching about your gut feeling like most other people who make threads like this.



jikannaizo #17 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 03:38

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View PostTeriyakiTanker, on Apr 08 2021 - 03:19, said:


What exactly do you want help with?  Do you expect them to have the same RNG?  You obviously aren’t really telling the truth.... like they are getting the same maps.  Come on that doesn’t make any sense.  So since we know they aren’t getting the same maps, how can they be in the same place doing the same thing?

Well ranked does only have Sand River, Siegfried Line, El Halluf, Serene Coast, Lake View, Ruin Burg, Karelia, Pearl River, Westfield, Redshire, Highway, Cliff, Malinovka, and Live Oaks no they were not on the same maps some of the time, just most of the time because they were getting similar map rotations. To go further into it before you ask they weren't facing the same tanks or people most of the time either. I'm also just asking the forums if there is anything I might not know about the game that someone else might or come up with ideas about how to improve on game performance. I am not here to start trash talk anyone or thing, just trying to figure out why some people tend to have better RNG than others do and if there is a way to prove that which Uderdice gave me a good way to start testing this.



jikannaizo #18 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 03:40

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View Postuberdice, on Apr 08 2021 - 03:35, said:

Good on you if you actually go ahead and test it instead of screeching about your gut feeling like most other people who make threads like this.

Thank you man, I really appreciate your constructive feed back, it gives me something to go off of and test.



jikannaizo #19 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 03:44

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View PostNeatoMan, on Apr 08 2021 - 03:02, said:

Do you think the son is a worse player than the dad? 

No, like I said he is on par if not playing at a slightly higher level than his dad is.

 



shazwanbomer #20 Posted Apr 08 2021 - 03:44

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The more money you spent the THEN the RNG god will side with you




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