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If people are asking questions then something is amiss


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slavsickle #1 Posted May 19 2021 - 15:28

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Im not here to discuss whether the game is rigged or not, but Ive been playing online games since whenever online were available.

 

Ive participated on many forums over the years from Unreal Tournament in early 2000s, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Call of Duty etc but WOT is the only game where 1 in 5 topics is about game being rigged. I mean if people are asking the question so often...maybe something is going on? 

 

Lets say the game really is random, well then a billion dollar company is really bad at setting up matches that lead to so many blowouts. WOT is so established and fleshed out, so much money, time and effort has been put into it to create such a popular and fun game and yet it allows such broken matchmaking where one team will be stacked with Super Unis in OP tanks versus tomato players in stock tanks shooting HE out of their 100mm IS3 gun...yeah that happened last night, outcome was decided before it began. Super Unis in Defender and 50TP Prototype vs tomatoes in stock IS3 and amx 65t. In a tier 6 game. Guess who won. 

 

If they can match player skill, pretty damn close for ranked, then they can certainly match it in pubs...but they dont. 

 

Discuss. 

 

 



Cowcat137 #2 Posted May 19 2021 - 15:45

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They game evolved into this- veterans with excellent crews , special equipment and map knowledge versus new people. 

Mojo_Riesing #3 Posted May 19 2021 - 15:59

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Is the game rigged?  Hmm...maybe.  First off, what does "rigging" really mean?  That's a term used pretty liberally to cover a wide range of allegations and personal butthurts, but the only kind of "rigging" i think may exist are efforts made to further increase profits for Wargaming.  Frankly, isn't that what all businesses do?  Draw you in, induce you to buy more.  Look at Apple and iPhones.  Is the Apple OS (Mac and iPhone) ecosystem "rigged" to keep you fenced in?

In a way does it even matter?  The thing with "rigging" is the target, that being the chump, the mark, the player ISN'T supposed to know it's rigged! Do Casino's "rig" roulette wheels and other games of chance? They say the House always wins, and while many are suspicious do casinos leave clear evidence out in open sight?   For anyone to see including the chumps they wish to prey on?  No, they don't. 

I don't think this game is "rigged" beyond inducing players to grind more, buy more and move up the Tier ladder of tanks but that's called a business plan, or at least it's part of one.

On the other hand clearly many players are HIGHLY suspicious they are being "taken" in one way or another, something we hear about all thru US society now, it's endemic. Everyone things everyone else is out to get them. It's just crazy.

Wargaming though built a successful game but as time passed, a decade which is huge in gaming, they have not sought to re-invent their original model but rather to keep patching it up, trying to make little changes here and there only to find those require even more changes.  Matchmaking, over reliance on Randoms, flailing about with game modes the few embrace, excessive catering to sub-groups, failure to market and work at player retention are all things WG is guilty of.

Beyond a aging business plan, i don't think this game is rigged, flawed and not some plot to ruin players matches and experiences. Just stuck in a rut, and not sure how to get out.

Edited by Mojo_Riesing, May 19 2021 - 16:00.


CAPTMUDDXX #4 Posted May 19 2021 - 16:00

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View Postslavsickle, on May 19 2021 - 09:28, said:

Im not here to discuss whether the game is rigged or not, but Ive been playing online games since whenever online were available.

 

Ive participated on many forums over the years from Unreal Tournament in early 2000s, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Call of Duty etc but WOT is the only game where 1 in 5 topics is about game being rigged. I mean if people are asking the question so often...maybe something is going on? 

 

Lets say the game really is random, well then a billion dollar company is really bad at setting up matches that lead to so many blowouts. WOT is so established and fleshed out, so much money, time and effort has been put into it to create such a popular and fun game and yet it allows such broken matchmaking where one team will be stacked with Super Unis in OP tanks versus tomato players in stock tanks shooting HE out of their 100mm IS3 gun...yeah that happened last night, outcome was decided before it began. Super Unis in Defender and 50TP Prototype vs tomatoes in stock IS3 and amx 65t. In a tier 6 game. Guess who won. 

 

If they can match player skill, pretty damn close for ranked, then they can certainly match it in pubs...but they dont. 

 

Discuss. 

 

 

View PostCowcat137, on May 19 2021 - 09:45, said:

They game evolved into this- veterans with excellent crews , special equipment and map knowledge versus new people. 

What is going on is that the report button isn't used liberally enough to get blatant falsehood mongering threads and comments locked. Use it liberally! I do.

Yes cowcat exactly as anyone should expect over 10 years.



Kritas #5 Posted May 19 2021 - 16:05

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I was watching Eekee this morning on the WG/EU stream. He clearly stated that WG adjusts matchmaking regularly without the player's knowledge or any communication to the player base.

 

That's the sum total of what was said, I thought it interesting.



Kliphie_Reborn #6 Posted May 19 2021 - 16:06

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Interesting.  I have his stream on also and heard no such thing. 

Kritas #7 Posted May 19 2021 - 16:09

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View PostKliphie_Reborn, on May 19 2021 - 09:06, said:

Interesting.  I have his stream on also and heard no such thing. 

 

It was about a half hour ago in response to someone posting about matchmaking in chat.

 

*edit* My only intent here is to post what I heard. To me, tweaking matchmaking doesn't necessarily mean rigging. That argument has gone on for years and will never cease in my opinion. I just play the game as it is.


Edited by Kritas, May 19 2021 - 16:13.


grim_898 #8 Posted May 19 2021 - 16:11

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View Postslavsickle, on May 19 2021 - 15:28, said:

Im not here to discuss whether the game is rigged or not, but Ive been playing online games since whenever online were available.

 

Ive participated on many forums over the years from Unreal Tournament in early 2000s, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Call of Duty etc but WOT is the only game where 1 in 5 topics is about game being rigged. I mean if people are asking the question so often...maybe something is going on? 

 

Lets say the game really is random, well then a billion dollar company is really bad at setting up matches that lead to so many blowouts. WOT is so established and fleshed out, so much money, time and effort has been put into it to create such a popular and fun game and yet it allows such broken matchmaking where one team will be stacked with Super Unis in OP tanks versus tomato players in stock tanks shooting HE out of their 100mm IS3 gun...yeah that happened last night, outcome was decided before it began. Super Unis in Defender and 50TP Prototype vs tomatoes in stock IS3 and amx 65t. In a tier 6 game. Guess who won. 

 

If they can match player skill, pretty damn close for ranked, then they can certainly match it in pubs...but they dont. 

 

Discuss. 

 

 


I have a theory on why so many say the game is rigged. Hear me out. Wot is a very niche game. I’d bet most of the people who start playing, like their WW2 and Cold War history. I’d say 70% of them have never seriously played a video game in their life. Especially not a pvp video game. So they start playing and are not only terrible at the game, but are just bad at video games in general. You would think that admitting your bad at a video game wouldn’t be that tough of an admission to make right? Wrong!! All these people think that it couldn’t be them that sucks at a video game, it’s the game that makes them suck!!! That’s my theory.



LeaveIT2Beaver #9 Posted May 19 2021 - 16:22

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Without casting aspersions on anyone's intelligence, self-worth, sexuality, or any other measurement of worthiness to their consumption of oxygen, I fully believe that the game metrics are tweaked as data trends are examined by  Wargaming. 
Every company with common business intelligence tweaks their end products constantly - or they get left behind in the dust of Capitalism.

 

 



SwollenOstrich #10 Posted May 19 2021 - 16:30

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I gave away an old lawnmower a couple of weeks ago. My craigslist ad said simply:

 

Free. Runs. Text for pickup address.

 

I got 3 text from a lady saying she wanted it. Seemed desperate. I sent address and told her to pick it up anytime.

 

Her response:  How much? Does it run? 

 

:facepalm:

 

She asked questions ...  and something is amiss all right.



MMI_SPI #11 Posted May 19 2021 - 16:31

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Does this count as rigging tho??

I'd say WG allowed a greater disparity of skills by introducing improved equipments, directives, crew books for credits, better prem tanks then tech tree counterparts, reserves booster and so on.

Some of these may profit to newer players, but let's face it! No newbs will spend 2mil credits on books when he can't even afford equipments, or large consumables. Which BTW, provides a little buff VS normal consumable that has none.

MM may be random, but rolfstomp will keep happening as long as there is no SBMM of some sort.


Edited by MMI_SPI, May 19 2021 - 16:32.


MadBadger #12 Posted May 19 2021 - 16:55

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People seem to be confused as to what "rigging a game" means. It doesn't mean some matches have poor odds of winning due to skill distribution. It means the game odds are consistently tilted in favor of one party. Since there is no "house wins" option here (the usual objective of rigging), then the only other source of rigging would be "in favor of high win rate players". Which is funny, because anyone with a high win rate is effectively rigging their own matches by being better than other players.

 

At any rate "some matches are poorly distributed by player skill or tank OP-ness" is a known fact. This doesn't constitute "rigging", it just means the matchmaker generally makes a fast selection among tank types and tiers and doesn't try to make every match a "fair fight" between equal opponents. 

 

Every PvP game I've ever played has the same complaints and the same issues with matchmaking - that sometimes teams are selected in such a way that one side is far more likely to win than the other. Well gosh, welcome to real life and real contests! Although I should point out that the last time I tried a day or three of matches, Mechwarrior Online had significantly improved the "fairness" (or at least somewhat evenly matched sides) of their own MM so maybe there's some tips to be gained there.

 

Yes, matchmaking is unevenly balanced at times. From my own experience as an average player, it appears that the MM puts me on the "better" side as often as it puts me on the worse one. I take long breaks from WoT and have played since Beta - from a casual point of view the number of wildly imbalanced roflstomps (15-3 or worse) seems to have slowly reduced over time. 



Exiledcrow #13 Posted May 19 2021 - 17:01

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Lots of people think the earth is flat, do we owe them a fair hearing? I'd argue that dignifying BS by treating it seriously perpetuates BS.

 

 

Edit: The something amiss is that people are often just stupid, and when not actually stupid, are so intellectually lazy and dishonest that there's functionally no difference.

 


Edited by Exiledcrow, May 19 2021 - 18:54.


SwollenOstrich #14 Posted May 19 2021 - 17:09

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View PostExiledcrow, on May 19 2021 - 11:01, said:

Lots of people think the earth is flat, do we owe them a fair hearing? I'd argue that dignifying BS by treating it seriously perpetuates BS.

 

imma let you finish, but hear me out ... go to a window and look out, does it look like the horizon curves down on each side to you? No. Well then. Who's crazy NOW? gotcha



IronWolf_Vilnius #15 Posted May 19 2021 - 17:13

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It's not rigged as in determining whether you personally win or lose. But there are significant factors out of the player's control that determine how the game goes, including MM and RNG.

That's the basis of the complaints, and this is the internet where people automatically gravitate to conspiracy theories and playing victim.

ThaneTyrian #16 Posted May 19 2021 - 17:14

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View PostMadBadger, on May 19 2021 - 07:55, said:

People seem to be confused as to what "rigging a game" means. It doesn't mean some matches have poor odds of winning due to skill distribution. It means the game odds are consistently tilted in favor of one party. Since there is no "house wins" option here (the usual objective of rigging), then the only other source of rigging would be "in favor of high win rate players". Which is funny, because anyone with a high win rate is effectively rigging their own matches by being better than other players.

 

At any rate "some matches are poorly distributed by player skill or tank OP-ness" is a known fact. This doesn't constitute "rigging", it just means the matchmaker generally makes a fast selection among tank types and tiers and doesn't try to make every match a "fair fight" between equal opponents. 

 

Every PvP game I've ever played has the same complaints and the same issues with matchmaking - that sometimes teams are selected in such a way that one side is far more likely to win than the other. Well gosh, welcome to real life and real contests! Although I should point out that the last time I tried a day or three of matches, Mechwarrior Online had significantly improved the "fairness" (or at least somewhat evenly matched sides) of their own MM so maybe there's some tips to be gained there.

 

Yes, matchmaking is unevenly balanced at times. From my own experience as an average player, it appears that the MM puts me on the "better" side as often as it puts me on the worse one. I take long breaks from WoT and have played since Beta - from a casual point of view the number of wildly imbalanced roflstomps (15-3 or worse) seems to have slowly reduced over time. 

 

Good Points, all!  I believe you are right.  I've played since 2012 and enjoy the game more now than I did back then.  I don't believe the game is rigged AGAINST any player or FOR any player.  I definitely do not believe the games is broken.  If I go on a losing streak, I stop playing for awhile.  If my losses equal 10 in a day, and my wins aren't close to 10, I stop playing for awhile.  Bottom line is I don't RAGE anymore - I walk away.  I don't believe the game OWES ME anything, and I've spent a LOT of money on it.  So much so that I think of it as a Hobby rather than just a game - that helps me justify the money spent.  As for skill-based matchmaking, I'm all for it, BUT, if it resulted in wait times over a minute, I wouldn't be, because one of the joys of this game, TO ME, is that I can sit down for a short period of time and fight a lot of battles.  If some are blow-outs against me, that's OK, because to MadBadger's point, I'll be on the "right" side of just as many blowouts.  For the amount of games I can play within an hour, I'm good with that.  GL&HF!   

 

View PostSwollenOstrich, on May 19 2021 - 07:30, said:

I gave away an old lawnmower a couple of weeks ago. My craigslist ad said simply:

 

Free. Runs. Text for pickup address.

 

I got 3 text from a lady saying she wanted it. Seemed desperate. I sent address and told her to pick it up anytime.

 

Her response:  How much? Does it run? 

 

:facepalm:

 

She asked questions ...  and something is amiss all right.

 

Great story!  It reminds me of the Scorpion and the Frog. 



Whistling_Death_ #17 Posted May 19 2021 - 17:21

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Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....again?  Does this nonsense ever stop?

 

I am starting to wonder if paranoia is contagious?! :amazed:



I_QQ_4_U #18 Posted May 19 2021 - 17:22

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Stupid people always think games are rigged when their numbers don't match their ego.

Exiledcrow #19 Posted May 19 2021 - 17:22

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View PostSwollenOstrich, on May 19 2021 - 17:09, said:

imma let you finish, but hear me out ... go to a window and look out, does it look like the horizon curves down on each side to you? No. Well then. Who's crazy NOW? gotcha

 

I'd say the crazy one is the one that ignores if you have a window that's HIGH enough, you can indeed look out and visibly observe it. 



Brynar #20 Posted May 19 2021 - 17:29

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Give me an example where the same question being repeated, contrary to collected data, were able to overrule the data. Clue: conspiracies don't count.




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