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Eldritch_Raven #1 Posted May 23 2021 - 19:59

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I already hear the haters. "Get good", "Uninstall", "Play Candy Crush", however, I am speaking to WG here and, yes, speaking to a topic that has probably been over-posted about. Yet I still feel the need to make my voice heard, to add to the call for change. One-sided losses have plagued me from the start. Can we please fix the Matchmaking system to take into account PR, stock tanks, etc? I know that there are players who "Are just good", but for the rest of us there needs to be fairness in battles. People with 60k battles, or even 5k battles on one tank, don't need to be chunked together against players with stock tanks, >100% crews, or low PRs. Its designed unfairness. I have gotten to the point that trying has become an afterthought....and (big point here WG) paying for this game is just not worth it. One-sided losses 9 out of 10 battles just isn't fun and I have even fallen prey to the anger and frustration that leads to arguments and insults. I believe in the potential of tis game, but just don't believe in the current structure. Thanks

_BobaFett #2 Posted May 23 2021 - 20:03

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Wargaming does not read the NA forums, nor do they take suggestions from players. 

Eldritch_Raven #3 Posted May 23 2021 - 20:12

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That is truly sad that they don't listen to their players. Of course, that is not unexpected. I don't even think they play their own game. *shrugs*

 

 



Fray_Bentos_Lite #4 Posted May 23 2021 - 20:17

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Thanks for posting.  I support a form of SBMM I that I have described in the various SBMM threads so I understand your frustration.

 

The challenge of Matchmaking is that each additional Matchmaking factor increases the computational requirements by an exponential factor.  Think  Linear Algebra and a giant optimization matrix.  WOT has to be careful about their implementation.  In the past, their attempt at SBMM created excessively long queue times.  That demonstrated a fundamental lack of optimization aptitude in their IT department.  

 

IMHO, Before WOT can implement or test SBMM properly, they have to:

 

1)  Hire better programmers/mathematicians with a real optimization background from the various transportation/logistics/leisure industry companies where optimization is the critical business application for those companies.  

2) Buy better computers. 

 

Until 1) and 2) happen, we can't even begin to consider SBMM at WOT or any SBMM test will invariably fail.    

 

 



Eldritch_Raven #5 Posted May 23 2021 - 20:27

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MM is only a part of my frustration. So many things, even after reaching tier 9, that I simply don't know or fully understand. Would love to join an active clan or even platoon with some skilled players to refine what I know or to teach what I don't. I was hoping to learn from my sitakes but it's hard when you don't know what mistakes you are making but the other guy does and takes uncaring, as it should be, advantage of them.

 



A_Cute_Girl #6 Posted May 23 2021 - 20:29

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It will never happen this late in the game's life lol.

Projectile_Misfired #7 Posted May 23 2021 - 20:45

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View PostEldritch_Raven, on May 23 2021 - 19:27, said:

MM is only a part of my frustration. So many things, even after reaching tier 9, that I simply don't know or fully understand. Would love to join an active clan or even platoon with some skilled players to refine what I know or to teach what I don't. I was hoping to learn from my sitakes but it's hard when you don't know what mistakes you are making but the other guy does and takes uncaring, as it should be, advantage of them.

 

Not trying to be insulting, but maybe this is your problem. Maybe you're not cut out to be playing in the higher tiers just yet. 

I'm not saying that you won't see some of those same, or same type of, players in the lower tiers, but the game is a bit more forgiving to players in the lower tiers. Use those tiers to learn the various game mechanics, crews, and maps. Then, once you think you've learned enough, to maybe not keep making the same mistakes, start moving up into the higher tiers. 

 

As for games being lopsided, that's going to happen from time-to-time. The best you can do is try to notice when it's happening and adjust your gameplay to make the most of that particular match that you can. 



Fray_Bentos_Lite #8 Posted May 23 2021 - 20:55

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Tier IX and X are gold ammo slinging @#$@ shows with Tier X arty...  There is a good thread about that.  As been recommended, Spend a good amount of time in Tier V or VI and learn everything from lights/scouts to arty (sorry,  but you need to play arty to learn how to avoid arty). That means Mediums, Heavies, TD's too.  Both turreted TD's and non-turreted TD's.  Once you do this and understand how the various tank types play, you'll have a better time in the higher tiers.   The spotting and camo mechanics are the same.  The pain and price you pay are lower though.  There will be seal clubbers at TIer V and VI but you'll be meeting more players at your level.  If it wasn't for battle pass and all the promos/missions, I'd be spending more time at Tier V and Tier VI for the sheer fun of it.  

RHeadshot #9 Posted May 23 2021 - 20:56

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View PostFray_Bentos_Lite, on May 23 2021 - 20:17, said:

 

The challenge of Matchmaking is that each additional Matchmaking factor increases the computational requirements by an exponential factor.  

No it doesn't.



Manimal__ #10 Posted May 23 2021 - 20:58

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View PostEldritch_Raven, on May 23 2021 - 10:59, said:

I already hear the haters. "Get good",

 

..not even a sentence in and you got it wrong already. It's "Git Gud"



Waarheid #11 Posted May 23 2021 - 21:16

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SBMM dies not eliminate blowouts (it might reduce the occurance somewhat though). 

Blowouts happen all the time in Ranked Battles. 

Ranked is at its core a form of SBMM. 

 



GWyatt #12 Posted May 23 2021 - 21:30

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Current active thread on SBMM  Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM? - General Discussion - World of Tanks official forum - Page 70

Fray_Bentos_Lite #13 Posted May 23 2021 - 21:39

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View PostRHeadshot, on May 23 2021 - 20:56, said:

No it doesn't.

LOL.  That is a well reasoned argument with supporting mathematical logic.  

I'll apply your approach to my response.

 

Yes it does.  

Yes it does.

Yes it does.

 

However, if WOT hires the right mathematicians and programmers, there are new algorithims that will help reduce the increased computing requirements for the SBMM optimization problem.  And those my friend, are often fiercely guarded industry secrets...



ATruk #14 Posted May 23 2021 - 21:41

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View PostEldritch_Raven, on May 23 2021 - 11:59, said:

I already hear the haters. "Get good", "Uninstall", "Play Candy Crush", however, I am speaking to WG here and, yes, speaking to a topic that has probably been over-posted about. Yet I still feel the need to make my voice heard, to add to the call for change. One-sided losses have plagued me from the start. Can we please fix the Matchmaking system to take into account PR, stock tanks, etc? I know that there are players who "Are just good", but for the rest of us there needs to be fairness in battles. People with 60k battles, or even 5k battles on one tank, don't need to be chunked together against players with stock tanks, >100% crews, or low PRs. Its designed unfairness. I have gotten to the point that trying has become an afterthought....and (big point here WG) paying for this game is just not worth it. One-sided losses 9 out of 10 battles just isn't fun and I have even fallen prey to the anger and frustration that leads to arguments and insults. I believe in the potential of tis game, but just don't believe in the current structure. Thanks

I already had many thousands of battles when my son set up his account. I watched over time as he learned a bit from me, but then catapulted into a much higher PR when he accepted learning from better players. This is not rocket science, he did not ask for easier battles. He took the challenge of the game as presented and made his way.

The "unfairness" you described is the same for all, making it fair for all. Do not feel disadvantaged about it. Not all battles are as one-sided as you describe, and as you get better at the game (map knowledge, tank knowledge, strategic knowledge, and so on) the game will make more sense. For those that "get it", this can happen quickly.

I personally enjoy the randomness of the MM, always have. As an adult, it would bother me to think there is a nanny making things easier for me by limiting the competition.

Wins are not my main goal. Personal performance improvement is. I look to top 5 on the team, win or lose. That is something I can control.

Best of luck to you.



Nixeldon #15 Posted May 23 2021 - 21:59

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View PostFray_Bentos_Lite, on May 23 2021 - 15:39, said:

LOL.  That is a well reasoned argument with supporting mathematical logic.  

I'll apply your approach to my response.

 

Yes it does.  

Yes it does.

Yes it does.

 

However, if WOT hires the right mathematicians and programmers, there are new algorithims that will help reduce the increased computing requirements for the SBMM optimization problem.  And those my friend, are often fiercely guarded industry secrets...

Considering you have been part of at least some of the countless threads concerning this, you already know there is data on this. You just don't like it.

 

 



Lukas_FishGang4Life #16 Posted May 23 2021 - 22:25

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SBMM will not reduce blowouts, look at any other multiplayer pvp game with a ladder/ranked system. Blowouts are commonplace in all of them. The only thing SBMM does is reduce the number of things bad players will be able to blame their losses on.

cloudwalking #17 Posted May 23 2021 - 22:29

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View PostEldritch_Raven, on May 23 2021 - 20:12, said:

That is truly sad that they don't listen to their players. Of course, that is not unexpected. I don't even think they play their own game. *shrugs*

 

 

 

Your entire argument is one reason they don't.

 

You're asking for others to be separated and treated differently simply because you can't be bothered to improve.  Solid.



_PoliticallyIncorrect #18 Posted May 23 2021 - 23:15

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Step 1: Admit you have no idea what you are doing and that the reason you lose so much is due to your own lack of abilities, and not because of your teams.
Step 2: Following this admission analyze your own gameplay and ask yourself "What could I improve on and do better?"
Step 3: Find a master of the craft to teach you the ways and correct what you are doing wrong and help you improve.
Step 4: Shut up and listen to your teacher
Step 5: Apply and practice the knowledge your master has bestowed upon you
Step 6: Win more.

Rinse and repeat until you stop losing so much that you think we need SBMM just so you win more. 

Allf #19 Posted May 23 2021 - 23:15

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The reality of any competitive game or sport, there are winners and losers. Because you are terrible, does not mean the MM is broken or that the game is rigged against you.

It just means you cannot make consistent difference in your games. So even if you are put against a bad player such as yourself, you will likely lose 50% of the time.

Meaning, there is no difference who you play against. If you are bad - you are bad. To consistently win, or influence the battle in your favor, you have to know how to play well. 


Edited by Allf, May 23 2021 - 23:20.


SquishySupreme #20 Posted May 23 2021 - 23:47

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View PostEldritch_Raven, on May 23 2021 - 20:12, said:

That is truly sad that they don't listen to their players. Of course, that is not unexpected. I don't even think they play their own game. *shrugs*

 

 

The real reason is that their data analysis shows that the extra time taken to find opponents and make matches work like this nets less matches per hour and therefore less money per hour than the current system.
It's 100% about the money, and more matches, quicker matches, and more blowouts all adds up to more money in their pockets.






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