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soldier5009 #1 Posted Jun 17 2021 - 06:10

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some one explain to me the reason why with a fully trained crew in a 1390 all the camo perks when im hidden in a bush completely and fire I am immedialy hit with return fire and usually destroyed 

yet when i play a medium tank and all of a sudden im hit 4 times by a 1390 and when trying to locate the shot cant outline or spot the tank then when i die the 1390 pops up 100 meter away.

what makes camo worth while, what cheat is being used and how to counter the cheat



Markd73 #2 Posted Jun 17 2021 - 06:41

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A replay would help

soldier5009 #3 Posted Jun 17 2021 - 08:06

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ill get you a video soon as i figure out how to uplod it to forum

new to forum



_Tsavo_ #4 Posted Jun 17 2021 - 12:26

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View Postsoldier5009, on Jun 17 2021 - 02:06, said:

ill get you a video soon as i figure out how to uplod it to forum

new to forum

Go to your world of tanks install folder, and then to replays.  Find the replay file you want and upload it to wotreplays.eu and link it here. 

 

My initial suspicion is that you're misusing the bush mechanics but a replay will help determine what happened 



heavymetal1967 #5 Posted Jun 17 2021 - 13:42

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If you fire you blow your camo which can be mitigated by taking advantage of the bush mechanics which I'm guessing is at least part of Tsavo's point.

 

Post the replay per the others.



RealBattousai #6 Posted Jun 17 2021 - 13:53

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View Postsoldier5009, on Jun 17 2021 - 02:06, said:

ill get you a video soon as i figure out how to uplod it to forum

new to forum

 

Also please don't use the word 'cheats' there are no client side 'cheats' that can modify a server side function like spotting/camo, it usually comes down to equipment, crew skills, using the right bushes, etc., which we can help you with from seeing the replay. In addition to the replay can you post a screen shot of the equipment on your tank and the crew skills?

if you're not familiar with taking a screen shot and pasting it here, you can switch WoT into windowed mode Alt+Enter (Alt+Enter again to go back to full screen when done}, then use the built in windows app 'snip' to capture whatever area of the screen you want. Then paste it to a site like imgur.com, right click the image when its uploaded, copy image url, and use the picture button here in the forum controls to paste the URL from imgur



Whistling_Death_ #7 Posted Jun 17 2021 - 14:21

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View Postsoldier5009, on Jun 17 2021 - 00:10, said:

some one explain to me the reason why with a fully trained crew in a 1390 all the camo perks when im hidden in a bush completely and fire I am immedialy hit with return fire and usually destroyed 

yet when i play a medium tank and all of a sudden im hit 4 times by a 1390 and when trying to locate the shot cant outline or spot the tank then when i die the 1390 pops up 100 meter away.

what makes camo worth while, what cheat is being used and how to counter the cheat

 

Have you really only payed four battles in the previous sixty days?  I ask because lack of practice in this very deep, complex game really reduces the chances of doing well.

 

What you described is not cheating.  It's just lack of knowledge of view range and spotting mechanics.  This is not some easy bang, bang shoot 'em up game.  Far from it.  It's very deep and complex, which is what keeps it challenging and fun. 

 

First of all, without using proper concealment measures, firing from foliage cover reduces the concealment of a tank by over 75%, which means you're usually instantly spotted, shot and blown up, as you stated is occurring.

 

At the below link we can see that the AMX 13 90 has a stock stationary concealment rating of 17.67. Also note its concealment rating stays the same even on the move, which only light scouting tanks are capable of.  More on this later.  However, as soon as the gun is fired that concealment rating is drastically reduced to only 4.14, over a 75% reduction in the concealment for your tank.  That's huge. 

 

http://www.wotinfo.net/en/camo-calculator

 

A light scouting tank has paper thin armor, not many hit points and a weak, low alpha damage per shot gun, so firing the gun is many times a death wish for a light scouting tank.  As the class designation name suggests, a light scouting tank's primary role is for scouting; to scout, detect and light up enemy tanks for your teammates to shoot, particularly your powerful team artillery.  This is the primary role of a light scouting tank.  Scouting, we can earn a lot more silver coins/credits and XP than by firing the gun.  Why?  Because when your teammates fire on the enemy tanks your light scouting has detected, you earn 50% of the credit for that, i.e. 50% of the damage inflicted, silver coins/credits and XP.

 

Your AMX 13 90 light scouting tank and its 90 mm gun has an average HP damage per shot of only 240.  At tier IX, that's not much; https://tanks.gg/tank/amx-13-90

 

Your tier IX team artillery that you can scout for has much, much larger and more powerful guns than your small pea-shooter gun, ranging in caliber from 155 - 210 mm with an average alpha damage per shot of 750 to 1,100.  See the link below.

 

https://tanks.gg/compare/gw-tiger?t=m53m55%7E212a%7Eb-c-155-55%7Efv3805

 

So you can inflict 240 HP damage per shot with your small gun, be spotted, shot and blown up, or inflict a whole lot more damage by not firing the gun, (as a result, staying undetected), and instead scouting for your powerful team artillery that can inflict far more damage than your comparatively tiny gun. You do the math. :)  This is how a light scouting tank can absolutely dominate battle after battle by scouting instead of not scouting and firing the gun.  For this reason, light scouting tanks and artillery should always be best of friends.  If W.o.T. goes through with their suggestions of heavily nerfing, if not destroying artillery, it will also greatly negatively impact light scouting tanks and this will greatly harm the game.

 

Next, we have the lovely in-game Commanders Vision System equipment that can be used and it greatly reduces the concealment foliage cover provides by up to 20%.  I feel this greatly harms the game, makes concealment measures virtually worthless and I wont even use it, as I feel it causes so much harm to the game.  In the, "Developers", effort to reduce battle times from historically enjoyable and fun 10-15 minutes to now a not fun 3-6 minutes, resultingly making players spend more silver and gold coins playing more battles, W.o.T. has a vested interest in trying to make the battles as short as possible, so they remove foliage cover from maps so they look like golf courses instead of forests, which means tanks are now much easier to spot, shoot and blow up.  This causes the duration of battles to be much shorter.  Now with the, "wonderful", Commanders Vision System, any remaining foliage cover on the maps can now be made virtually worthless and the duration of battles can be reduced even further.  Golly gee, thanks W.o.T!  Not. :facepalm::(   This, "wonderful", idea probably came from the Wargaming Monetization Department.  It should be referred to as the, "Anti-Fun Department".   What do we want to bet that Wargaming does not have a, Fun Department, even though this is a game and games are meant to be fun?

 

Anyway...

 

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Equipment

 

Commander´s Vision System


Effect: -15% to concrealment of enemy vehicles behind foliage
-10% to concealment of moving enemy vehicles
Effect with bonus slot: -20% to concealment of enemy vehicles behind foliage
-12,5% to concealment of moving enemy vehicles

 

So this is why you're being spotted and blown up when you fire your gun.  Below is a very good video showing how to fire from foliage cover without being detected.

 

 

Your light scouting tanks also needs the proper crew skills.  The #1 most important is Sixth Sense, followed by Concealment at 100% for the entire crew, then Situational Awareness and Recon to increase the view range.  Brothers in Arms will also increase the performance of all the crew skills by another 5%.  For more details, see this link; https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Crew

 

 

To enhance your AMX 13 90 light scouting tank's ability to scout, it must be equipped properly.  This of course means camouflage paint to increase the concealment rating of your tank and this should be used with any tank anyway, all the time. The equipment you want to use is the Low Noise Exhaust System which can increase the concealment of your light scouting tank by up to 8%, Coated Optics, which can increase the view range by 11.5% and Improved Ventilation, which can increase the performance of all your crew's skills up to 6%, including the vitally important concealment and view range.

 

Low Noise Exhaust System

 

https://wiki.wargami...et/en/Equipment


Effect: HT+SPG +3% increases the concealment of a stacionary or moving vehicle
LT+MT +6% increases the concealment of a stacionary or moving vehicle
TD +5% increases the concealment of a stacionary or moving vehicle
Effect with bonus slot: HT+SPG +4% increases the concealment of a stacionary or moving vehicle
LT+MT +8% increases the concealment of a stacionary or moving vehicle
TD +6% increases the concealment of a stacionary or moving vehicle

 

Coated Optics

 

https://wiki.wargami...et/en/Equipment


Effect: +10% to view range (up to 445 m)
Effect with bonus slot: +11,5% to view range (up to 445 m)

 

Price: Class 3: 50.000Silver_icon.png Class 2: 200.000Silver_icon.png Class 1: 600.000Silver_icon.png
Cost to remove: 10 gold - kit

 

 

Improved Ventilation

 

https://wiki.wargami...et/en/Equipment


Effect: +5% to all crew skills.
Effect with bonus slot: +6% to all crew skills.

 

Price: Class 3: 50.000Silver_icon.png Class 2: 200.000Silver_icon.png Class 1: 600.000Silver_icon.png
Cost to remove: 10 gold - kit
Weight: 100/150/200 kg
Note: Not available for vehicles with an open deck, Bat.-Châtillon 155 55 and Bat.-Châtillon 155 58.

 

 

Light scouting tanks have very special concealment abilities that no other class of tank has.  When they are on the move, their concealment rating stays the same as when they are stationary.   With any other class of tank, as soon as they move the hull of the tank, their concealment rating is reduced by over 50%, (moving the turret and gun does not), and they are resultingly much more likely to be seen, shot and blown up.  This is not the case with light scouting tanks and with their concealment fully maxed out, they can be very difficult for the enemy team to detect.  This is what enables light scouting tanks to safely scout, detect the enemy tanks and bring fire upon them from their teammates.

 

Below is an excellent video about light scouting tanks, view ranges and spotting mechanics.

 

 

 

Here is a video on understanding view ranges, how you're being spot, shot and blown up while you can't even see the enemy tank shooting at you.

 

 

 

 

Here is a video about concealment and how to use it to keep your tank from being detected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So there you go.  I hope this information is of use for you.  :)


Edited by Whistling_Death_, Jun 17 2021 - 14:46.


Whistling_Death_ #8 Posted Jun 17 2021 - 14:23

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View Postsoldier5009, on Jun 17 2021 - 02:06, said:

ill get you a video soon as i figure out how to uplod it to forum

new to forum

 

 

You can't upload it to the Forum.

 

You upload the battle recording file to; http://wotreplays.eu/

 

Then post the link for your battle recording here.  :)



Chillum #9 Posted Jun 18 2021 - 17:29

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In short, use double bushes.

 

If in sniper mode the bush is seethrough then when you shoot you will almost certainly be spotted.

 

If in sniper mode the bush is opaque then you cannot spot through it. But you will also not be spotted through it while firing.






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