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HE changes and Spall Liner


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GeneralButtBuster_ #21 Posted Jun 24 2021 - 21:49

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View PostRenamedUser_1045619995, on Jun 24 2021 - 15:02, said:

Spall liner was already pointless before this update and should never be run. The way it works (or worked rather) was that it would reduce damage from HE, but only by thickening the armor in response (about 60%). But HE shells would always find the weakest point of the armor within the splash radius and pen that. In practice this resulted in very low HE damage reductions, something like shaving off 50 damage taken from direct arty hits. 

 

No idea how it works after this update (but isn't really needed now either way). You're better off running turbo or improved hardening in its place along with the usual vents/IRM/rammer combo

Well since HE no longer seeks out thin points, its possible spall liner may just be more effective now. Won't know for sure tho unless someone tests it.



SociopathicTroll #22 Posted Jun 24 2021 - 21:58

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View PostGeneralButtBuster, on Jun 24 2021 - 15:49, said:

Well since HE no longer seeks out thin points, its possible spall liner may just be more effective now. Won't know for sure tho unless someone tests it.

Well HE is also bad enough now that it's no longer needed 



Snohoe #23 Posted Jun 24 2021 - 23:08

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They have always only had effect on direct hits, not splashes. Could be semi useful against the "special HE" since arty has to hit you directly with it now.... but there are just too many always useful pieces of equipment to spare a slot for a sometimes useful one. They should have added in its effect to the hardened or improved config equipments. 

Knyaz_Svyatoslav #24 Posted Jun 24 2021 - 23:13

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View PostRenamedUser_1045619995, on Jun 24 2021 - 18:00, said:

Only HE damage. 

Remember it isn't a flat damage reduction, it's an armor increase. The HE round will still deal the same amount of damage, the only difference is that the weakest point targeted in the splash will have 60% more armor. That sounds like a lot, but because of how HE worked before 1.13 it's actually basically nothing in actuality. If a KV-2 fires an HE shell at your turret face, the shell will typically splash and deal damage to your hull roof right below the turret since that would be the weakest point of armor. If that had say 30mm of armor, it now only has 48mm of armor into the calculation. That's a negligible amount of damage shaved off. 

 

It's even worse with arty because their shells typically hit turret and hull roofs where armor is really weak. 

 

If you need more proof that spall liner is truly useless, here's a test with an FV4005 firing HE at an IS-6 both with and without spall liner. The spall liner didn't reduce damage at all. 

 


The real reason spall liner was never viable was because it was largely situational and only worked against direct hits. Sure, that 60% improved armor of the "weakest point inside the splash radius" did very little against the 4005 with 230 mm pen on its HESH shell. That's because to 230 mm pen, whether it hits armor 30/40/50 mm thick or 48/64/80 mm, it made no difference. However, for HE shells with sub 90 mm pen (which is most of them including arty), the effect was significant, not 60%, but significant. Dez made a video on it once and I think the effect was around 30% or so. Again, the issue wasn't that the equipment didn't do its job, the issue was that it was too situational and other pieces of equipment which are always useful are much more competitive. Had it worked against splash dmg, I'm sure a lot more people would've been using it.


Edited by Knyaz_Svyatoslav, Jun 24 2021 - 23:14.


TheJeep1 #25 Posted Jun 25 2021 - 00:17

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View PostRenamedUser_1045619995, on Jun 24 2021 - 09:56, said:

Ok Boomer 


Wow a buzz word but you got it wrong, probably because you're not very bright.  Boomers are in their 60's. X-gen is me.  You should hurry along to your education site (youtube) and learn more.



anonym_kKqFMS18hj1r #26 Posted Jun 25 2021 - 00:22

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View PostRenamedUser_1045619995, on Jun 24 2021 - 18:56, said:

Ok Boomer 


Sorry but you couldn't understand an comply with the naming rules why would anyone think anything else you say is correct?



The_Happiest_Husky #27 Posted Jun 25 2021 - 01:25

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Idk I only run it on my Maus, mostly for the stun reduce

TheJeep1 #28 Posted Jun 25 2021 - 01:45

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View PostThe_Happiest_Husky, on Jun 24 2021 - 16:25, said:

Idk I only run it on my Maus, mostly for the stun reduce


Crew protection is big too.  The explanation in game says 50% crew protection, doesn't specify HE or other.  Ramming with it is fun, I have it in my Kp50t and it is awesome what it can do on a ram vrs even most heavies.



SociopathicTroll #29 Posted Jun 25 2021 - 01:53

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View PostRamaLamaDingDong1, on Jun 24 2021 - 18:22, said:


Sorry but you couldn't understand an comply with the naming rules why would anyone think anything else you say is correct?

Hm? 



_Brew_ #30 Posted Jun 25 2021 - 13:39

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View PostNavyGuns45, on Jun 24 2021 - 08:52, said:

What tanks will you be removing spall liner due to the HE changes in 1.13?  I'm curious to see what people were using them on and if they've changed their minds.

 

Spall liner was and has always been useless.  The only ones I found it at all useful for were meme builds of the WZ-132-1 built entirely for ramming other lights and some mediums to death while avoiding major damage to yourself.

 

Just my opinion, of course.






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