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What’s Wrong with Crew 2.0 & How to Fix It

Crew 2.0 Sandbox Feedback

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LieutenantGeneral_A #1 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 01:09

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Problem

Allowing free XP to be used in the Elite Progression. At least crew books can be purchased for Credits. Free XP can only be converted for Gold.

Solution

Neither Free XP nor Crew Books should be allowed in the Elite Progression.

 

Problem

Vehicle Handling Bonus. Although +15% VH is impossible to attain just by playing the game, +10% VH is relatively easy to get (equivalent to ~700k Free XP on top of a level 80 crew, or a partially trained sixth skill). This is the equivalent of having two extra vents, or two extra BiA skills, or one extra food consumable. This will be absolutely broken in 1v1 tournaments, at the very least.

Solution

Convert excess Crew XP into National Crew Books. Players can use their level 80 crews to print crew books in the same way that you use premium tanks to print credits.

 

Problem

Crew Instructors make the system too complicated and unbalanced. No one wants to have to buy Offspring bundles just to be competitive.

Solution

Scrap the entire concept. As rewards for future campaigns, battle pass, and Christmas events, replace special crewmembers (current system) with level 50 crews.

 

Problem

Many crews become redundant. A lot of players spent time and XP training a new crew for every vehicle. Now, they have a large number of 1-2 skill crews that are neither converted into crew books, nor trained to a vehicle because of better crews available.

Solution

Allow players to convert ANY of their crews into either National Crew Books, or into National Crew XP (similar to Free XP, but for crews only).

 

Problem

Crew XP Penalties and Retraining Costs for Credits. In the current system, when grinding a new tank line, I use crew books to recruit a 3+ skill crew for the tier VI. Once I research the next tank in the line, I retrain the crew for 80k credits with a fixed penalty of ~43k crew XP each time. In Crew 2.0, I would have to spend 500k credits with a penalty of ~170k crew XP EVERY TIME (or just pay the 750 gold, which incidentally is less than in the current system). In Crew 2.0, this also resets skills, which is unnecessary when simply moving the crew to the next vehicle in the line.

Solution

Separate the cost of retraining the crew from that of resetting skills. Keep the 80k credit cost and fixed ~43k crew XP penalty for the former (Note: I like Crew 2.0’s new system of resetting skills for 300k credits without losing crew XP. It will be useful for trying out new builds).

 

If these issues are resolved, I believe the player base will welcome the new system with open arms.

 



Ahrtoo #2 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 01:13

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What's wrong- almost everything

 

How to fix it- don't do it



GWyatt #3 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 01:33

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View PostLieutenantGeneral_A, on Jul 20 2021 - 19:09, said:

 

 

 

I think your solutions for all but the 3rd item are good and would like to see them done. There is and has been, players with fantastic crews and crew 2.0 should not be a way to equalize them so I don't see an issue with Instructors.



Cowcat137 #4 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 01:36

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Just tried sandbox : There's just hours, hours of work ahead for me reassigning crews for a couple hundred tanks. This is a major penalty for any player with a big tank collection. I also  I have over thirty commanders that became instructors. I am now Battalion personnel officer. I've only scratched the surface with one crew, but playing missions, earning bonds, battlepass points, doing clan stuff, that's all gotta wait.

LieutenantGeneral_A #5 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 01:46

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View PostCowcat137, on Jul 21 2021 - 01:36, said:

Just tried sandbox : There's just hours, hours of work ahead for me reassigning crews for a couple hundred tanks. This is a major penalty for any player with a big tank collection. I also  I have over thirty commanders that became instructors. I am now Battalion personnel officer. I've only scratched the surface with one crew, but playing missions, earning bonds, battlepass points, doing clan stuff, that's all gotta wait.

When Crew 2.0 hits live, you won't have to re-assign crews. You can play with the ones you already have, and reset their skills anytime. You can definitely spend hours trying out all the different builds you can create now, which I think is one of the positives of the new system (as opposed to a pre-defined set of the same skills for every vehicle of the same type).



Cowcat137 #6 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 01:57

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That's reassuring. Sounds like I can chip away at it like Equip 2.0.

martingalindo #7 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 02:19

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The main problem of Crew 2.0 is the cost of every skill.
For example Camo now cost 5 crews to 100% so thats the basic to said: 5 members at 100% equals 10 points.

So 1 crew member 2 points
But also intuition cost 10 points when now it cost 1 crew member (maybe 2 if two loaders)
So thats basically 1 crew member=2 points OR even 2 crew members = 4 points.
Now to have the same efficiency it will cost me 10 points.
The same goes to a lot of others skills.
Some of them get combined still cost a lot more than before.
For example a E50M with 4 skills at 100%
Have in crew 1.0:

Cammo, Bia, Repair, and then combined:
Thats it Six sense, snap Shoot, Smoth ride, Intuition, Situation awareness


With 2.0

Cammo, BIA repair, and if i put intuition i lost: Snap shoot, smoth ride, and situational awareness.
Six sense if giving by default so yea i have it.

Still i lost 3 skills.

 

 



Bavor #8 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 02:45

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I think you missed a few large problems...

 

1. In some of my tanks with 6 and 7 crew skills, I still have fewer useful crew skills when converting to crew 2.0.

 

2. You actually need 2 or 3 crews for every tank you use in clan wars or team competitive play.  You need a:

  • pub battle crew
  • clan wars offensive crew
  • clan wars defensive crew

 

3. The new system is even more confusing than the current crew system.

 

4. The new crew system locks certain crew skills behind a 30 point wall requiring you to possibly spend points on skills you don't need just to get the certain skills locked behind the 30 point "pay wall" that Wargaming implemented.

 

5. The current crew system could be fixed just by giving everyone 6th sense and that artillery sound detection skill by default for free, then adding a few new and useful crew skills.

 

6. No matter what the feedback is, Wargaming will eventually ram Crew 2.0 down our throats and tell us to take it all and like it because its obvious they want to make this complicated, unnecessary, and confusing change despite the feedback.

 



martingalindo #9 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 02:51

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View PostBavor, on Jul 20 2021 - 22:45, said:

4. The new crew system locks certain crew skills behind a 30 point wall requiring you to possibly spend points on skills you don't need just to get the certain skills locked behind the 30 point "pay wall" that Wargaming implemented.

Thats the other problem, the talents:

 

I am okey with the idea that you have to pick 1 of 2 talents for example pick Clean shoot OR Rapid Fire.
But i does not like the idea i have to put 30 points in a specific category to reach to that talents.


To be honest with every 30 points in every place i want i should have the option to reach any talent i want (obviosly if i put Rapid Fire it will not be posible to have clean shoot when i reach 60 points)

 

EDIT: i think 3 crews per tank is a little to much. I prefer to grind 1 crew to the max in the current system.

 

 

EDIT2: Agree with the point that the new system is  complicated for the only sake of being complicated.
They found complicated solutions for problems that need easy solutions.
Add new skills to the old system and the problem is done.

 


Edited by martingalindo, Jul 21 2021 - 02:56.


UnitG2 #10 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 03:19

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Problem

Monetisation still in complete control of Crew 2.1 development

Solution

Split Crew 2.1 off into a new game called "Tank Personnel Simulator 1947"

 



KnightzCross #11 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 03:33

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The whole crew retraining/transition to the new format should be completely FREE. This is not a change any of us want or agree with, yet we will eat it like all the other bad ideas thrown into the game regardless of our feedback...

 



Tarrik #12 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 03:55

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I have to say that one thing I noticed is that you can assign a crew to 3 tanks, but it seems to cost to add any tank past the first one. I thought the initial 3 were free. Welp I guess they want to bleed some gold, not a fan. 

Avalon304 #13 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 05:57

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View PostLieutenantGeneral_A, on Jul 20 2021 - 17:09, said:

Problem

Allowing free XP to be used in the Elite Progression. At least crew books can be purchased for Credits. Free XP can only be converted for Gold.

Solution

Neither Free XP nor Crew Books should be allowed in the Elite Progression.

 

Problem

Vehicle Handling Bonus. Although +15% VH is impossible to attain just by playing the game, +10% VH is relatively easy to get (equivalent to ~700k Free XP on top of a level 80 crew, or a partially trained sixth skill). This is the equivalent of having two extra vents, or two extra BiA skills, or one extra food consumable. This will be absolutely broken in 1v1 tournaments, at the very least.

Solution

Convert excess Crew XP into National Crew Books. Players can use their level 80 crews to print crew books in the same way that you use premium tanks to print credits.

 

Problem

Crew Instructors make the system too complicated and unbalanced. No one wants to have to buy Offspring bundles just to be competitive.

Solution

Scrap the entire concept. As rewards for future campaigns, battle pass, and Christmas events, replace special crewmembers (current system) with level 50 crews.

 

Problem

Many crews become redundant. A lot of players spent time and XP training a new crew for every vehicle. Now, they have a large number of 1-2 skill crews that are neither converted into crew books, nor trained to a vehicle because of better crews available.

Solution

Allow players to convert ANY of their crews into either National Crew Books, or into National Crew XP (similar to Free XP, but for crews only).

 

Problem

Crew XP Penalties and Retraining Costs for Credits. In the current system, when grinding a new tank line, I use crew books to recruit a 3+ skill crew for the tier VI. Once I research the next tank in the line, I retrain the crew for 80k credits with a fixed penalty of ~43k crew XP each time. In Crew 2.0, I would have to spend 500k credits with a penalty of ~170k crew XP EVERY TIME (or just pay the 750 gold, which incidentally is less than in the current system). In Crew 2.0, this also resets skills, which is unnecessary when simply moving the crew to the next vehicle in the line.

Solution

Separate the cost of retraining the crew from that of resetting skills. Keep the 80k credit cost and fixed ~43k crew XP penalty for the former (Note: I like Crew 2.0’s new system of resetting skills for 300k credits without losing crew XP. It will be useful for trying out new builds).

 

If these issues are resolved, I believe the player base will welcome the new system with open arms.

 

 

Problem one I agree with... problem 2 and 3 arent actually problems. Problem 4 is already built into the system, and will occur automatically after a certain date. Problem 5 also isnt actually a problem.



GWyatt #14 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 14:33

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View PostTarrik, on Jul 20 2021 - 21:55, said:

I have to say that one thing I noticed is that you can assign a crew to 3 tanks, but it seems to cost to add any tank past the first one. I thought the initial 3 were free. Welp I guess they want to bleed some gold, not a fan. 

 

Just asking; where did you get the idea it was free, it wasn't free in the last Sandbox.

 

View Postmartingalindo, on Jul 20 2021 - 20:51, said:

<snip>

EDIT: i think 3 crews per tank is a little to much. I prefer to grind 1 crew to the max in the current system.

<snip>

 

 

What, you don't have to have 3 crews per tank, you can, if you want, use up to 3 tanks per crew. The main complaint on how that works is now some players feel they will have too many Crews if they assign a crew to more than one tank.

 

View PostBavor, on Jul 20 2021 - 20:45, said:

<snip>

 

2. You actually need 2 or 3 crews for every tank you use in clan wars or team competitive play.  You need a:

  • pub battle crew
  • clan wars offensive crew
  • clan wars defensive crew

<snip>

 

That's something that you should test but I believe you could create 3 different crews and assign them to a tank and only have to pay to put them in that tank once. And you might be able to use those same crews in two other tanks while only needing to pay to train them to those tanks once. Would be a win-win for your situation.



Illuminatius_Divinus #15 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 15:56

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Only 0.004%(in the thousands, across server) of the players would have fully elite crews thrashing the game

Illuminatius_Divinus #16 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 15:58

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You guys are bad at math, and former Soviet Republics are good at math.

This is  why nobody in Belarus listen to the community, coz who listen to someone with 0 cognitive ability?



Illuminatius_Divinus #17 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 16:03

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The new system is punitive and so much grind, even WG sugarcoats and softsales by making everything easier by 75%

it is still worse than the current system!



Brynar #18 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 17:39

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View PostBavor, on Jul 21 2021 - 02:45, said:

 

5. The current crew system could be fixed just by giving everyone 6th sense and that artillery sound detection skill by default for free, then adding a few new and useful crew skills.

 

 

Absolutely false if you care to play any of the tanks with 2-3 crew members. The current system is heavily slanted towards big tanks with many crew members. As you may not be aware, many mid-to-high tier LTs have the Commander also filling the roles of the Radio Operator and Loader. AMX ELC bis is the worst example I can find with Commander also being Gunner, Loader and Radio Operator. Crew 2.0 actually addresses this in a fair way by disconnecting XP from the number of crew members in the tank. Seems most of the 'sky is falling' crowd don't play any of these tanks.

 

The worst part that I can see with Crew 2.0 is that many of the skills improve the vehicle performance as your performance in the battle progresses. This avalanche effect will lead to blow-outs being even faster.



UnitG2 #19 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 18:15

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View PostBrynar, on Jul 21 2021 - 08:39, said:

 

... The current system is heavily slanted towards big tanks with many crew members...

 

Like IRL?



martingalindo #20 Posted Jul 21 2021 - 22:05

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View PostGWyatt, on Jul 21 2021 - 10:33, said:

What, you don't have to have 3 crews per tank, you can, if you want, use up to 3 tanks per crew. The main complaint on how that works is now some players feel they will have too many Crews if they assign a crew to more than one tank.

I was answering to the other person, yep i think the same i can have 3 crews per tank if you want but thats not mandatory.

 

View PostBrynar, on Jul 21 2021 - 13:39, said:

 

 The current system is heavily slanted towards big tanks with many crew members.

And? i play lights and i think thats okey. If a commander has to do all, it will have problems to do it all well.
I dont see a problem here.

I prefer that with the potencial of have all skills i want than have a 80 points limit. (i think even in my manticore i will lost skills with this changes)





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