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Why? Defender vs 252U


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DeviouslyCursed #1 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 05:50

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So the Defender and the 252U are the same tank.

 

Why then, on every server I can check (NA, EU, RU) does the 252U have a higher win rate than the Defender?

 

I'm guessing maybe two reasons.

 

1. The Defender is well known, so people know to take it more seriously.

 

and

 

2. Because the Defender is so well known as an OP tank, Baddies are more likely to purchase it than the 252U.


Edited by DeviouslyCursed, Jul 29 2021 - 05:51.


Mr_BushyBeard #2 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 05:59

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More sample size for 252. The defender has a paint job that not everyone likes.

DeviouslyCursed #3 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 06:19

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View PostMr_BushyBeard, on Jul 29 2021 - 05:59, said:

More sample size for 252. The defender has a paint job that not everyone likes.

 

No, they are pretty similar actually.



Mr_G0NE #4 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 06:25

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It's all about the fenders. The Defender doesn't have fenders covering the area in front of the drive wheel, the generic 252u does.

4TankersAndDog #5 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 06:39

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They had that fender difference when they first came out, but that was fixed later, take a look at the models in Tanks.gg.

 

Maybe because "Defender" buyers are more into the style than performance?  ...and FWIW, the really cool kids get the 50TP



Mr_G0NE #6 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 07:06

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View Post4TankersAndDog, on Jul 29 2021 - 06:39, said:

They had that fender difference when they first came out, but that was fixed later, take a look at the models in Tanks.gg.

I hate to say you're wrong (wth am I talking about, I love saying other people are wrong), but you're wrong:

The defender does not have fenders

https://tanks.gg/tank/defender/model?vm=visual

The generic 252u does

https://tanks.gg/tank/obj-252u/model?vm=visual

 

EDIT: Boomer'ed the image attachment, so added links instead

 

 


Edited by Mr_G0NE, Jul 29 2021 - 07:17.


I_QQ_4_U #7 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 08:59

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View PostDeviouslyCursed, on Jul 29 2021 - 05:50, said:

So the Defender and the 252U are the same tank.

 

Why then, on every server I can check (NA, EU, RU) does the 252U have a higher win rate than the Defender?

 

I'm guessing maybe two reasons.

 

1. The Defender is well known, so people know to take it more seriously.

 

and

 

2. Because the Defender is so well known as an OP tank, Baddies are more likely to purchase it than the 252U.

 

 

Maybe a lot of the better players don't like the stupid skin?



I_QQ_4_U #8 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 09:03

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View Post4TankersAndDog, on Jul 29 2021 - 06:39, said:

They had that fender difference when they first came out, but that was fixed later, take a look at the models in Tanks.gg.

 

Maybe because "Defender" buyers are more into the style than performance?  ...and FWIW, the really cool kids get the 50TP

 

 

Mine were not changed, Defender still has no fenders. Not that they actually do anything but not having them makes more of a 'shoot me here' sign on the Defender.



13Jake55 #9 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 12:37

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Its physiological,  the U makes non russians tremble.

Dishonest_John #10 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 13:08

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Key words here in your musings - "I'm guessing".

Exactly. Which leads me to believe you just wanted to call other players "baddies" to have your back rubbed by the other insecure girls?



 


Edited by Dishonest_John, Jul 29 2021 - 13:14.


NeatoMan #11 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 15:13

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According to the tank win rate curves (which take into account the quality of players driving the tanks) they are pretty similar. 

 

OP russian tanks is OP.  Same as always.

 

 



DeviouslyCursed #12 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 22:11

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View PostDishonest_John, on Jul 29 2021 - 13:08, said:

Key words here in your musings - "I'm guessing".

Exactly. Which leads me to believe you just wanted to call other players "baddies" to have your back rubbed by the other insecure girls?



 

 

Well, common sense would indicate it's not the good players losing more in it, so.....



4TankersAndDog #13 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 23:44

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View PostMr_G0NE, on Jul 28 2021 - 22:06, said:

I hate to say you're wrong (wth am I talking about, I love saying other people are wrong), but you're wrong:

The defender does not have fenders

https://tanks.gg/tank/defender/model?vm=visual

The generic 252u does

https://tanks.gg/tank/obj-252u/model?vm=visual

 

Well, your links are to the visual model, just click to the Collision model and you'll see they are identical.

The 252 model's fenders used to be in the Collision model, but that was 'fixed'


Edited by 4TankersAndDog, Jul 29 2021 - 23:52.


Edselman #14 Posted Jul 29 2021 - 23:45

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Go check the stats for the T26E5 vs. Patriot and the AMX M4 mle. 49 vs. Liberte.

 

If the non-skinned version of those tanks performs better as well, then it's probably a difference in taste from the people who buy them. If not, then I'd guess it's just a coincidence. 



DeviouslyCursed #15 Posted Jul 30 2021 - 01:51

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View PostEdselman, on Jul 29 2021 - 23:45, said:

Go check the stats for the T26E5 vs. Patriot and the AMX M4 mle. 49 vs. Liberte.

 

If the non-skinned version of those tanks performs better as well, then it's probably a difference in taste from the people who buy them. If not, then I'd guess it's just a coincidence. 

 

Those two are kind of all over, some servers one is ahead, but in another server the opposite one is. Some of the spreads are small, some are huge. The RU server has the AMX M4 mle. 49 1.6% above the Liberte, but on the US and EU servers the Liberte is leading.

 

The 252U and the Defender are the only ones that has the standard tank higher each time and by about the same amount across all three servers.

 

Actually, the Pz IV Ankou absolutely obliterates it's tech tree counterpart. Likely due to the crew starting at 100% though, and no grind.



SquiggyMcPew #16 Posted Jul 30 2021 - 03:22

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View PostDeviouslyCursed, on Jul 29 2021 - 06:19, said:

 

No, they are pretty similar actually.

 

They are exactly the same tank with the defender not having the no collision model fenders.

 

https://tanks.gg/com...252u?t=defender

 

I love my defender its still an op monster when top tier and can hold its own when bottom though you gotta spam premium ammo.



danfred #17 Posted Jul 30 2021 - 03:35

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They are the same tank but I have had way better luck in the Defender.

I got 1rst mark in 138 battles 55% win rate, With a 3 1/2 skill crew in Defender. I got the Defender in an xmas box and decided to keep it, even though I already had the 252U.

I bought the 252U around when it first came out. 289 battles, 48% win rate, still not 1rst marked. Every time i get close 65%, I get a bad set of battles and drop down. I have a much better crew in it, 5 1/2 skill crew. Use same equip on both. I have even tried using rations on the 252U to get me over the 65%, but I stopped as I'm trying to make credits in prem. tanks.

For me the Defender has more Russian luck. I swear the gun is better... 

 



Edselman #18 Posted Jul 30 2021 - 05:51

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View PostSquiggyMcPew, on Jul 29 2021 - 21:22, said:

I love my defender its still an op monster when top tier and can hold its own when bottom though you gotta spam premium ammo.

 

I miss the days when weakspots used to exist, and people had to aim at them or fork over gold to buy a crutch. 

 

Now you can buy the crutch for credits. 


Edited by Edselman, Jul 30 2021 - 05:51.


SquiggyMcPew #19 Posted Jul 30 2021 - 06:28

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View PostEdselman, on Jul 30 2021 - 05:51, said:

 

I miss the days when weakspots used to exist, and people had to aim at them or fork over gold to buy a crutch. 

 

Now you can buy the crutch for credits. 

 

I see you have never played a defender. Its accuracy is, well, questionable



Edselman #20 Posted Jul 30 2021 - 07:45

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View PostSquiggyMcPew, on Jul 30 2021 - 00:28, said:

 

I see you have never played a defender. Its accuracy is, well, questionable

 

I played the old IS-6 pre-buffs with no gold ammo, accuracy couldn't have been worse than the old IS-6. 






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